INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

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Hello Otto

We are working on it right now and have asked for input and suggestions from QQ members.

Regards

Chucky
oh well, the last suggestion was given two weeks ago and since then pretty quiet.
i guess main needs has been voiced out and people don't have anything else more to suggest.
so what it's gonna be?
 
oh well, the last suggestion was given two weeks ago and since then pretty quiet.
i guess main needs has been voiced out and people don't have anything else more to suggest.
so what it's gonna be?

Hey there Otto,

We're chewing through all the possibilities, I promise when we have an initial likely list I'll post it up.
Sorry for going quiet - been a little busy. I'll post an update on the other thread as well.

~David
 
Dear All

I have been informed by Rustyandi that his listening "man cave" has been flooded and it will take a bit longer before his review of our amended SQ "vinyl" version will be complete.

My version when listening at Rustyandi' setup was that the separation was clearly better on Tab Patterson's test trumpet track. The bigger difference to the Tate was a lack of pumping that was quite noticeable.

May I call for "volunteers" for those who want to try out the new version.

Three options:

1 Order an update chip and get a good tech to solder it in .....say $20 + postal costs

2 Send your SM back to us and we will do the update.....say $30 + postal costs

3 Order a special SQ SM that has dual SQ- either vinyl optomized or "script" optomized for all you SQ nutters- so you have both flavors. Say a special QQ price of $395 + postal costs but by special personal message request.

4 Any other suggestions!!!!!

Hopefully we will get some test pilots in the next few days

I thank all those who complained (correctly) and a special thanks to Tab.

Regards

Chucky


Will there be a unit that does QS and both types of SQ?
 
Hi Armyofquad

Currently we are limited by the board design and the plastic box (yes I still hate it). Maybe a long time in the future when we go to a metal box and run out of boards but that will be years.

Regards

Chucky



Will there be a unit that does QS and both types of SQ?
 
Ugh, bummer. Would love to do a shootout for a quadcast episode, but would need full functionality of all modes to really do it right. Not to mention wanting all functionality if I'm going to put the money into it. I hope you figure out a better design down the road, will be keeping an eye out on how that progresses.
 
Hmmmm

I love a good shootout! OK I will suggest it to "Overture" who is designing our new super duper Surround preamp. You said the magic word.

regards

Chucky


Ugh, bummer. Would love to do a shootout for a quadcast episode, but would need full functionality of all modes to really do it right. Not to mention wanting all functionality if I'm going to put the money into it. I hope you figure out a better design down the road, will be keeping an eye out on how that progresses.
 
Excellent. I've been looking for a good topic for another episode. It'll also give me a chance to check out what the QS mode does with EV-4, been curious about that for a while.

No rush, I'm in the process of moving so I won't be ready to start up another episode for a few months.
 
Hi Newbyquad

In short NO!!

The vinyl SQ will do a better job on SQ records but SQ was always a poor decoder of stereo. The existing Involve unit is by far the best decoder of stereo sources. On only rare occasions does SQ do a good job.

Regards

Chucky

will this chip upgrade make synthesized stereo into quad better?
 
OK, the above posts are confusing. What I want in my box is the original Involve/QS/RM decoder and the SQ Vinyl decoder. Is this possible, and what do I need to do? What is this going to cost me? I know of no electronic repair places anywhere near here to do the replacement (everything today is throw-away!).
 
My understanding -- chucky and overture can correct me if I'm wrong -- is that you can either ship your unit back to them (you pay shipping) so that the Involve folks can replace your "original" SQ/QS chip with the updated QS/SQ vinyl version of the chip OR they can send you the updated chip and you can replace it yourself (or have someone do it for you).

I'm waiting for some test results from other posters here before proceeding.

I also want to commend chucky, overture, et al for caring about us crazy quad people.
 
Dear everyone,

I'll be sending all of you interested parties PM's in the next day or so asking some extra details needed for delivery and invoicing and etcetera.
If you haven't received a PM from me by Thursday, and you're interested in getting the SQ Vinyl edition for testing, be it unit or chip, then send me a PM.

Yours in a white-wine sauce with garlic, mushrooms and shallots,

~David
 
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Greetings everyone!

I think I've got everyone's orders, payments and so forth. The stickers came as well, and I'm at this moment doing the reprogramming and testing.
I was desperately hoping to get them out the door today but the case lids are not up to scratch, and have to be re-painted.

The chip-only orders and upgrades aren't affected, I just don't want to sent out new units with crappy lids.

Sorry about all this.

~David
 
Make sure I get a PM about the chip. I didnt realise this was coming into fruition soon.
 
Hi All

I found out many years ago that the more you lower your price or do something for free the more likely you are to get abused and treated like an incompetent or worse yet some sort of a crook. Just take a look in society the highest paid (eg Doctors/ lawyers etc) are the most revered in society (hey I have spent $2000 per hour on Lawyers before).

So I get disappointed when customers infer we are somehow incompetent, greedy and worse yet threaten to bad mouth our company on the internet if they do not get their way. I really do not like threats.

We received this complaint a week ago:
So to save this person the time to say nasty things about us on the internet - I will do it for him

Hey there to you.,

This morning I sent the $55 as requested, and mailed the unit off this afternoon.

Now, I have a lot to say about this unit and your company. Whether or not I post this on the net will be determined by the final outcome. 1.) Most companies here in the States when they make a defective product, they repair or replace it free of charge, including shipping. It cost me $55 + $212 to send this unit back to you, almost the cost of a new unit! It is defective and was poorly developed (the SQ portion that is, the QS/RM portion is EXCELLANT!).
2.) Chucky in his report back to us said the problem is that some cartridges only have 10 db of separation. Well that's not my case. I have an Audio Technica AT15, which is rated at 35 db @ 1KHz. I'll have to wait until I get it back to see about this.
3.) He also mentioned that the CBS Labs test records didn't adhere to the SQ equation . I don't know about that, it could be true. BUT...those test records were encoded and recorded by CBS, and if they were wrong, all SQ records were recorded wrong. Not one record I tried decoded,the front channels correctly. When you found this out, you should have tweaked the circuits until it decoded correctly. This "regular/original" versus "vinyl" version is ridiculous!! There was never anything BUT vinyl recorded in SQ! In the seventies, CDs and downloads didn't exist!.

So, in the end, this is what I'm looking for:
1.) a unit that decodes correctly all produced SQ records, including the CBS test records, with LF coming from LF only, and RF from RF only. If the new chip doesn't do that, adjust it until it does! I hope it will be verified before being sent back to me, because I'm not paing #300 again!
2.) Some refund on all the money I've spent on this poorly developed unit.

Rant over (for now).



I replied:

Hello XXXX

I regret the additional cost required for the software update but it is no different to Microsoft going from one version of windows to another and charging for the update. Are you saying that Microsoft should have got it right on their original version of windows back in the 90’s?

The commercial realities of the SQ edition is that it was done as a favour to the QQ forum after many members pleaded us to do so. We sold around 50 sets of the SQ version to QQ members and the original version took us around 16 weeks to develop at a cost of around $40,000. That works out to a software development cost of $800 per customer (plus the hardware). We did it partly as a favour but also we wanted to!

At the time of the original development one obnoxious QQ member was giving us heat that we were not decoding QS “’buy the book” and was implying we were not going to decode SQ “by the book”. Consequently we took great care that our SQ decoder was precise in accordance with the decode mathematics. The unit worked perfectly with properly encoded SQ sources (as supplied by script versions).

All the initial reviews were great and I think universally stated that we did a better job than the Tate, particularly in respect to image stability and transient tonality. A year or so after the initial success we had 3 members state that the Tate was better than ours in front back separation with vinyl sources. Subsequent testing showed this to be correct. We found that any minute difference in magnitude AND PHASE of the left right signal from the Vinyl was the cause. It can be the cartridge or it can be in the recording – as we found with the CBS record with quite large PHASE errors.

We then promised to investigate the problem and offer an update to all those who wanted it. We were delayed for about a year but finally we spent another 3 weeks addressing the issue (costing us $10,000). This is the version we now offer.

Frankly some people will still prefer the original version, I await reviews by some “volunteers”. The price we offer for the update actually does not cover our costs of hardware and packaging/ administration but was kept low – again as a favour.

I do not like threats and so I have posted your email on the QQ forum (unnamed).


Regards

Charles van Dongen

(AKA Chucky)



Please feel free to check up on me via google, you will find I am clean. We have never charged for a repair of any of our products when it was our fault - even years outside the warranty period

There, I feel better now.

Regards

Chucky
 
All I know is that the Surround Master is one of the best SQ decoders out there. It is without question the best QS decoder ever. I'm getting the SQ Vinyl to see how much better it can be. If that is possible. (Besides, I wanted a backup unit anyway)! I'm sure I speak for most of the QQ members when I say thank you for all your time & effort. It has not gone unappreciated.
 
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