Looking for most inexpensive universal disc player recommendations...NOT SONY!

[Owen Smith]

Yup, as stated previously in this thread -- it's a authoring issue, not the fact it's a DVD-A on a burned disc.

I have DVD-A on burned DVDs that play in the X800M2. I also have at least one that won't, for seemingly random reasons as we are all aware and seemingly frustrated. I keep my old Oppo around for those stubborn discs, but most (95% ?) of my collection (store bought and burned) plays on the X800M2.

I have no idea how many of my authored DVD-As on burned DVDs this kind of issue might apply to, and I have no intention of finding out. Hence my spare player in storage is a second Oppo 203.

 

[Sal1950]

That would still be an issue, I have loads of authored DVD-As.

Better copy them to something else.
Your running out of time for the hardware.
Every media has it's day.

 

[Owen Smith]

Better copy them to something else.
Your running out of time for the hardware.
Every media has it's day.

I plan to play them as .iso images on my Oppo 95 with old enough firmware to permit that. I don't have the time to convert them to a different format to DVD-A .iso

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Yup, as stated previously in this thread -- it's a authoring issue, not the fact it's a DVD-A on a burned disc.

I have DVD-A on burned DVDs that play in the X800M2. I also have at least one that won't, for seemingly random reasons as we are all aware and seemingly frustrated. I keep my old Oppo around for those stubborn discs, but most (95% ?) of my collection (store bought and burned) plays on the X800M2.

You have burned discs that play the DVD-Audio (not the DVD-Video) layer on an X800M2? Quite curious...

 

[stoopid]

You have burned discs that play the DVD-Audio (not the DVD-Video) layer on an X800M2? Quite curious...

That's a good question and distinction, not one I was making when testing a while back. I think several had DTS streams so maybe not true DVD-A? The tests were more for my benefit so I wasn't taking a thorough accounting of exactly what I was playing, just getting a feel for how much I could expect to throw at the Sony by default. I've been playing a lot of recently purchased SACDs lately, so the burned media I was playing many months ago isn't fresh in my memory.

 

[jslasher]

I know the optical record players were around, but from what I read (zero personal experience), they had a lot of issues.

I own a Laser Disc player, which presently will not read any disc because it was dropped. Must return it to Japan for repairs. Very expensive owing to the weight; time consuming too.

 

[mandrix]

You'll have to trust this one rando when I say there's industries with a lot more at stake than your burned music files that are working diligently day in and out on this subject, for the sake of theirs and others data long term.

I have no clue what a rando is. I do have a clue about other things relating to media and preservation. Why do you assume you are the only one who knows anything, and we're clueless?

Yup, as stated previously in this thread -- it's a authoring issue, not the fact it's a DVD-A on a burned disc.

I have DVD-A on burned DVDs that play in the X800M2. I also have at least one that won't, for seemingly random reasons as we are all aware and seemingly frustrated. I keep my old Oppo around for those stubborn discs, but most (95% ?) of my collection (store bought and burned) plays on the X800M2.

It is not an authoring issue. The firmware can detect if a disc is burned or not, and if the manufacturer chooses to not allow play of a burned disc of certain media structures, that's their call. Else why would some disc players play DVDA/SACD burned to disc and others won't? Tell me, please. Give me a technical reason.

 

[stoopid]

I have no clue what a rando is. I do have a clue about other things relating to media and preservation. Why do you assume you are the only one who knows anything, and we're clueless?

I was trying to make light of the topic and encourage others to do some homework since there's a lot of info online in more 'scientifically' minded places than music forums. That's not to say some of us do/don't know things. I never used the term clueless. You did, and I'm not sure why you went there.

For the same reason as above, I can't claim to have the depth of knowledge of the inner workings of the various media players on the market. All we have are the results playing back what we have (anecdotal). These are questions for Sony, and specifically their engineering team, and maybe someone with access to their firmware who knows how to dissect what it can or cannot do. Whether or not these players are specifically blocking burned media is murky. Some burned media works, it's only certain authored content that seems to be the issue. Again, you want answers to questions that the people who could provide them are likely bound by NDAs.

 

[mandrix]

I was trying to make light of the topic and encourage others to do some homework since there's a lot of info online in more 'scientifically' minded places than music forums. That's not to say some of us do/don't know things. I never used the term clueless. You did, and I'm not sure why you went there.

For the same reason as above, I can't claim to have the depth of knowledge of the inner workings of the various media players on the market. All we have are the results playing back what we have (anecdotal). These are questions for Sony, and specifically their engineering team, and maybe someone with access to their firmware who knows how to dissect what it can or cannot do. Whether or not these players are specifically blocking burned media is murky. Some burned media works, it's only certain authored content that seems to be the issue. Again, you want answers to questions that the people who could provide them are likely bound by NDAs.

You implied people on Audio Forums don't know jack, pretty much....and again.
Yes, people speculate about things, that's human nature. All discussion is good, and there are some very smart people here who I have to assume don't get all their info from music forums.

But anyway, I already stated that the firmware in disc players is capable of detecting a pressed disc from a burned disc, if the manufacturer chooses to implement it, and reject some disc structures. SACD-R is not allowed because of the BD licensing authority, of which Sony is a member of and pushed for rejecting manufacturers who allowed SACD-R playback.

Disallowing playback of DVDA burned discs is indeed in murky waters. Maybe Sony decided they were being hypocritical in allowing burned DVDA whilst rejecting SACD-R. But as far as I know, it's not rejected under the licensing authorities. Could have changed, I mean they don't call me up and tell me.

I have authored 100's of DVDA discs, and maybe roughly a dozen SACD's. I just of course can't have them glass mastered and stamped, which would be IMO stupid and a waste of time on the enthusiast level.

 

[mandrix]

One thing that has occurred to me is enabling encryption for a DVDA disc. I can do that, but never have.
Whether the disc players look at that (doubtful?) or just that it's burned and has a certain file structure or both, who knows.
Since I know the software I use for DVDA authoring has been used at least once for a commercial disc, per someone in the industry, I have to put it back on Sony.
Anyway, through beating a dead horse. Sony can keep their player.

 

[Owen Smith]

SACD-R is not allowed because of the BD licensing authority, of which Sony is a member of and pushed for rejecting manufacturers who allowed SACD-R playback.

Which is why my Oppo 95 will play SACD-R (tested) but my Oppo 203 won't. Gee thanks Sony, tell me what I can do with the gear I paid for.

Disallowing playback of DVDA burned discs is indeed in murky waters. Maybe Sony decided they were being hypocritical in allowing burned DVDA whilst rejecting SACD-R. But as far as I know, it's not rejected under the licensing authorities. Could have changed, I mean they don't call me up and tell me.

I'm pretty sure playback of DVD-A burned discs is still allowed. However enforcement of DVD-A watermarking is now required, again I believe (though I have no test material for this) my Oppo 95 does not enforce it and my Oppo 203 does.

 

[barfle]

I own a Laser Disc player, which presently will not read any disc because it was dropped. Must return it to Japan for repairs. Very expensive owing to the weight; time consuming too.

My LaserDisc player is currently inoperative as well. I believe I know the problem and I believe I can fix it. It is my next project after I clean up my workbench, so maybe next week…

FWIW, when the drawer is closed, it makes a noise that sounds like there’s a gear slipping. That tells me that the switch that senses a closed drawer no longer senses that condition. Could be a broken mount, could be a dirty contact, both of which seem repairable by me. But I haven’t opened up the case, so it’s just educated huesses at this point.

 

[mandrix]

Which is why my Oppo 95 will play SACD-R (tested) but my Oppo 203 won't. Gee thanks Sony, te,ll me what I can do with the gear I paid for.

I'm pretty sure playback of DVD-A burned discs is still allowed. However enforcement of DVD-A watermarking is now required, again I believe (though I have no test material for this) my Oppo 95 does not enforce it and my Oppo 203 does.

Yeah I'm guessing that by the time the licensing authority came down on Oppo, your 95, like my 80 were no longer being manufactured so no firmware changes were required. Certainly that's the case for my BDP-80 anyway.
I was just looking at discWelder. I have CPPM set for copying permitted, unlimited. That and no copying, or a set number of copies can be specified. I have not tested the options as I say.
CPPM has been broken for a long time now, or "cracked" if you prefer. But that's only good for extracting the content and if the disc player says "no" then it won't play burned discs with CPPM enabled in the authoring. Otherwise it's just a choice the disc player manufacturer makes as to allow burned discs in DVDA format with no CPPM enabled.

 

[jimfisheye]

I still have Discwelder Chrome installed in the old Snow Leopard partition on my laptop. It still boots it! Been a while.

We need a speadsheet or maybe poster sized chart of the various restrictions and lockouts across these various media players and formats! But I suppose that would get the website attacked.

Locking out select formats is intentional in some products. Or "locking out" by not including a decoder codec. So it makes the product feel broken. Sony was absolutely locking out DVDA in their machines while they were trying to push DSD. They were trying to pretend DSD was some new thing with new ability and CD was the only version of PCM. Pretending 24 bit and HD PCM didn't exist. So they just omitted the decoders and sold crippled machines. You have to read way down into the small print sometimes for the admission that some formats are locked out.

So... is your machine software spoofing you or is the laser actually getting weak and struggling to read a disc it should be allowed to? I actually thought that was the point of the post originally - finding a robust optical drive. As opposed to dealing with the software dance of restricted products.

 

[stoopid]

If Sony changes anything, they will only allow in-spec burned non-watermarked discs, you know, the kind that consumers would be making for their own content, or maybe small-run commercial discs.

They will never allow SACD-Rs.

The current feature-set is perfectly reasonable. In the major countries where Sony operates, nobody at home is really using DVD-A, and those that do have an overwhelming amount of pressed commercial titles over burned commercial titles. In these major countries, making backups of your owned content ranges from a legal grey area to downright illegal and in Sony's home country, can get you real-world jail time. If we eliminate the backup and piracy buckets, we aren't left with anybody really who needs DVD-R based DVD-A playback. It's rare that DVD-A discs contain anything that extensively uses the format's capabilities, and people making multichannel music, due to the lack of authoring tools, would either be doing a normal DVD or jumping straight to Blu-ray, where the two largest support bases lie. Also, in the internet age, more people are using FLAC files than discs, which can be easily loaded off a USB.

The X800 series are for those who own enough physical media to warrant a universal player. The X800 series does almost everything you need for commercial and user-created media. It's fine to ask for DVD-R DVD-A support, I have no problem against that. However, I think it's a bit silly to bash Sony extensively for not supporting a feature that very few people are going to legitimately use, regardless of whether the restrictions may be arbitrary or not. Those who are wanting to use backups to preserve their discs would usually not be using discs.

Just my two cents...FWIW.

Mr Afternoon summed up for me the 'missing' dvd-a functionality part of the discussion on page two. Figure it's worth quoting as it suggests a perspective of gratitude for what the $250 X800M2 player does 95% of the time, versus the 5% it doesn't/can't. Getting snippy with other forum members and chasing the proverbial tail of complaining repeatedly isn't going to suddenly inject the missing functionality into the player.

The bigger takeaway for me (as value added to the surround community) is the buyer beware footnote. "It plays most things, but not everything. See asterisk. * "

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

One thing that has occurred to me is enabling encryption for a DVDA disc. I can do that, but never have.
Whether the disc players look at that (doubtful?) or just that it's burned and has a certain file structure or both, who knows.
Since I know the software I use for DVDA authoring has been used at least once for a commercial disc, per someone in the industry, I have to put it back on Sony.
Anyway, through beating a dead horse. Sony can keep their player.

You can't "enable" encryption for a DVD-A and put it on a DVD-R. It's impossible. Encryption is done at the pressing plant. Selecting "encryption" in an authoring software simply organizes the data for receiving encryption. Furthermore, to decrypt the encrypted data, you'd need to store the key on the disc, which cannot be burned because on a pressed disc it lives in an "unburnable" area.

 

[mandrix]

You can't "enable" encryption for a DVD-A and put it on a DVD-R. It's impossible. Encryption is done at the pressing plant. Selecting "encryption" in an authoring software simply organizes the data for receiving encryption. Furthermore, to decrypt the encrypted data, you'd need to store the key on the disc, which cannot be burned because on a pressed disc it lives in an "unburnable" area.

That's right. I'm a little rusty. CCPM can be either selected or not selected when authoring.
It's just something, frankly, I've never had to worry about.
Since you've been through the process, you would know.

 

[mandrix]

That's right. I'm a little rusty. CCPM can be either selected or not selected when authoring.
It's just something, frankly, I've never had to worry about.
Since you've been through the process, you would know.

Well as far as having discs pressed and all, if not actual authoring since you've been through it I believe it.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

That's right. I'm a little rusty. CCPM can be either selected or not selected when authoring.
It's just something, frankly, I've never had to worry about.
Since you've been through the process, you would know.

I haven't...yet! But I will be soon. I had spent a fair bit of time after Bonana looking into the intricacies of the format because of the X800 having playback problems.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Well as far as having discs pressed and all, if not actual authoring since you've been through it I believe it.

Yep! Honestly, from my standpoint, DVD-A is the hardest format to author easily...