Looking for most inexpensive universal disc player recommendations...NOT SONY!

[mandrix]

I'm thinking the only thing the Sony ;

Yep! Honestly, from my standpoint, DVD-A is the hardest format to author easily...

Agreed 100%. SACD is rather simple, really, if you can get through the software.
The problem as I see it with authoring a complex DVDA, with links from one "side" to the other, i.e. the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders you need a robust authoring program such as Scenarist, and a fair amount of understanding how the nuts and bolts work.
Neil Wilkes I consider the authority on that. But from what Neil says you pretty much need an XP machine to run the (now old) Scenarist authoring program.

discWelder is rather simplistic in that regard. ...and I don't author DVD's anymore so I don't even bother with a VIDEO_TS folder. The original intent was to have a "regular" DVD player able to play the normally lossy content and video without having a DVDA capable player.

I build custom menus with the now seemingly unobtainable Medichance DVD Menu Studio. I recently reached out to them to see if they have any updates for the program as it gets a little wonky in Windows 11. But crickets so far and it's been at least two weeks and no response.

EDIT: You can of course build menus in PhotoShop but never liked that method, although I may start the process in PS and finish up with Mediachance.

 

[ubertrout]

Folks, if you want to build a blu-ray player, you have to get a license from the blu-ray patent pool. They even have a website: Homepage - One Blue. My understanding is that the license terms from that pool require that manufacturers lock down burned DVD-A and SACD discs. They didn't always (which is why older players can do it), but as such ISO downloads of those formats proliferated they now do. Accordingly, I don't believe it's a Sony issue, I believe it's a format licensing issue, and I'd be surprised if you can buy a new universal player for burned discs.

 

[mandrix]

Yeah it's only a Sony issue insomuch as SACD. I think they could care less about DVDA but I suspect you're correct.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

Folks, if you want to build a blu-ray player, you have to get a license from the blu-ray patent pool. They even have a website: Homepage - One Blue. My understanding is that the license terms from that pool require that manufacturers lock down burned DVD-A and SACD discs. They didn't always (which is why older players can do it), but as such ISO downloads of those formats proliferated they now do. Accordingly, I don't believe it's a Sony issue, I believe it's a format licensing issue, and I'd be surprised if you can buy a new universal player for burned discs.

The license for building a player specifically is quite expensive....30k iirc?

EDIT: It's probably more than 30k with the whole decryption stuff too...

 

[jimfisheye]

Folks, if you want to build a blu-ray player, you have to get a license from the blu-ray patent pool. They even have a website: Homepage - One Blue. My understanding is that the license terms from that pool require that manufacturers lock down burned DVD-A and SACD discs. They didn't always (which is why older players can do it), but as such ISO downloads of those formats proliferated they now do. Accordingly, I don't believe it's a Sony issue, I believe it's a format licensing issue, and I'd be surprised if you can buy a new universal player for burned discs.

That makes sense and explains a lot.

I still think the computer is the most open ended in the end. Short of a whole room full of various hardware. You're never at the mercy of hidden software and you always have root access to everything. There are a few holes! No physical drive available to read commercial stamped SACD discs. And the software battle with Dolby for Atmos for the home theater PC guy right now is offensive! There's no one-size-fits-all for digital anymore. But wav files are wav files. 12 channel wav files are still wav files. Computers play those. Audio interfaces come in all shapes and sizes. Even if I stopped recording and producing I'd keep shopping for home hi-fi in the studio gear section.

 

[Owen Smith]

Folks, if you want to build a blu-ray player, you have to get a license from the blu-ray patent pool. They even have a website: Homepage - One Blue. My understanding is that the license terms from that pool require that manufacturers lock down burned DVD-A and SACD discs. They didn't always (which is why older players can do it), but as such ISO downloads of those formats proliferated they now do. Accordingly, I don't believe it's a Sony issue, I believe it's a format licensing issue, and I'd be surprised if you can buy a new universal player for burned discs.

Lock down of burned DVD-A is not required.

 

[Mr. Afternoon]

I wonder if it has to do with a misinterpretation of the DVD-A specs...Mr. Wilkes was talking about how the way DRM-free discs are implemented for the DVD-A format is somehow a misinterpretation of the specs, and players were technically not supposed to work with them...

 

[Sonik Wiz]

M-disc... Wasn't that the one that cost even more than 2" tape?

I never tried M-disc BDRs because they cost more than 2" tape and my bs detector was making noise.

Gladly waiting to hear your objective validation of that point.

 

[mandrix]

With two M disc capable optical drives/burners, I myself have not tried it. I don't expect to live 1000 years, but who knows?
For disc archiving, it would appear to be the best option from what I've read. Not relying on the dye treated discs, could be better? When someone builds a time machine please go forth and come back and relate. J/K.

Tech today has advanced more than most of us realize, or likely even hear about. AI will drive even more innovations. Not sure yet how I feel about that.
Seagate is building 30TB HAMR drives, which called for practically a whole new paradigm in HDD manufacturing. The internals have to superheat a miniscule area and then it cools in nanoseconds. From what I understand, these are currently only available for Cloud servers. (think Google, etc). But 40 & 50TB HDD's are sure to appear on the horizon within a few years, according to Seagate.

The times, they are a changin'.

 

[ubertrout]

Lock down of burned DVD-A is not required.

Yeah, I don't know the details. There was a separate pool for DVD-Audio but those patents have presumably mostly expired (https://web.archive.org/web/20171003095102/http://www.dvd6cla.com/licensee/category_02.html). But you're certain it's not part of the terms of other license agreements or of various agreements with content producers?

Either way, there's presumably a legal reason for it, and it's not just an arbitrary choice by Sony.

 

[Owen Smith]

Either way, there's presumably a legal reason for it, and it's not just an arbitrary choice by Sony.

Personally I think it is Sony extending their dislike of SACD-R to burned DVD-A simply because they can in their own products.

 

[mandrix]

Personally I think it is Sony extending their dislike of SACD-R to burned DVD-A simply because they can in their own products.

Yes I sometimes feel the same. Don't know if there is a reason at this point legally to disallow burned DVDA.

 

[jimfisheye]

Gladly waiting to hear your objective validation of that point.

What did I sign up for here?

Actually I do mean to look up this product up again. They're apparently still around. Perhaps cheaper now? Some positive claims or at least no direct bad mouthing? Yeah... need to look that up again. That's all I got today!

I don't think the price was actually $80 per minute of recording space, no. I just remember my eyebrows going up real high when I first read about it a few years ago and saw the 100x price over standard media. ($20 blanks when Verbatim BDRs were $0.25 each.)

I won't have any answers though. Any more than anyone else. The only "reader" I have for these round shiny things is the optical drive. It only tells me when it's able to read a disc vs not. You can get some early warning clues by watching read speed and if it has to retry reading the same spot multiple times. That's why I was interested in a way to bypass that and image the surface of the media. I suppose the data read/write system with the disc and laser resolves smaller things than available imaging ability? At least for the purpose built system.

If there is some kind of optical scanner you could place a disc on and take a picture that easily resolves the data pits to where you could use simple software to read and stitch the file back together. What might that tech cost?

 

[mandrix]

Yes M Disc blanks are still around, and the optical drives that will burn them are numerous.
Every DVD/BD burner I've bought for years has M Disc burning/reading capabilites.

From the WIKI:
M-DISC's design is intended to provide archival media longevity.[3][4] M-Disc claims that properly stored M-DISC DVD recordings will last up to 1000 years.[5] The M-DISC DVD looks like a standard disc, except it is slightly thicker[by how much?] and almost transparent with later DVD & BD-R M-Disks having standard and inkjet printable labels.

On the left is an M-disc written with information, on the right is an unwritten, blank M-disc.
The patents protecting the M-DISC technology assert that the data layer is a glassy carbon material that is substantially inert to oxidation and has a melting point of 200–1,000 °C (392–1,832 °F).[6][7][8]

M-Discs are readable by most regular DVD players made after 2005 and Blu-Ray & BDXL disc drives and writable by most made after 2011.[9]

Available recording capacities conform to standard DVD/Blu-ray sizes: 4.7 GB DVD-R to 25 GB BD-R, 50 GB BD-R and 100 GB BDXL.

 

[mandrix]

Maybe someone will burn thousands of M Discs with our music, and hundreds of years from now someone will figure out how to play them, and say wow! Now that's music!

 

[mandrix]

FWIW, this is the last burner I bought. I think I will order some M discs and check it out.

https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-External-Blu-ray-Compatible-Windows/dp/B09PY6SC9Y/ref=sr_1_6?crid=ICXWMZDPZYOD&keywords=m+DISC&qid=1707347156&sprefix=m+disc,aps,117&sr=8-6&th=1

I of course am not am Amazon associate. lol.

 

[Sonik Wiz]

FWIW, this is the last burner I bought. I t hink I will order some M discs and check it out.

https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-External-Blu-ray-Compatible-Windows/dp/B09PY6SC9Y/ref=sr_1_6?crid=ICXWMZDPZYOD&keywords=m+DISC&qid=1707347156&sprefix=m+disc,aps,117&sr=8-6&th=1

Related Thread:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/m-disc-file-storage-archiving-etc.35506/

 

[jimfisheye]

Looks like either 25GB BDR M-disc for just over $2.50 ea or 100GB BDXL M-disc for just over $10 ea. Same price byte for byte there. That would be $100 per TB roughly to backup.

A little portable 2TB HDD from WD is $60
A 12TB raw HDD for DIY desktop or network storage is just over $200
12TB of M-disc would be $1200

 

[barfle]

Maybe someone will burn thousands of M Discs with our music, and hundreds of years from now someone will figure out how to play them, and say wow! Now that's music!

Unfortunately, the media will undoubtedly outlive the players’ ability to play it

 

[multichannel_guy]

You could try to find a used Yamaha BD-A1060. It was released (now discontinued) with the slightly older Aventage series and was very good value, imo. Since it is not as "popular" as Oppo and others, it could still show up at reasonable prices on the used market. I managed to pick up a couple of them when the used Oppo scalping was severe.

Other option could be to install one of these high quality Pioneer drives on a HTPC.
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Computer/Computer+Drives