Rick Wakeman - journey May 2016

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I'm not sure. The only Joe Cocker Q8 I have is With A Little Help From My Friends, but it has damage and isn't worth converting, someone had repaired it with scotch tape splices which turned to goo and caused further damage. I recall the fidelity being typical for A&M quad, but it's been over a year since I played it. I recall it being a subtle quad mix, but worthwhile....but my expectations were low after hearing about it being a mostly double stereo quad. I'll have to keep an eye out on ebay for those.
 
Once you've/heard seen ArmyofQuad's comparison video, you may change your mind. The CD-4 (and the Q8) make the Six Wives DVD-A sound quite...compromised (certainly much less discrete), by comparison.

I have seen AOQ's "Six Wives" comparison video, but I still stand by what I said. I'm not comparing it against any other conversions I have heard of that title. I'm comparing it against the other officially released DVDAs to make that decision. Ymmv, of course...
 
AOQ, how does the Joe Cocker (first album) Q8 tape sound? Would sure like to have some Joe on QUAD SACD. Also, Joe's "With A Little Help From My Friends." Both classics!

You're not suggesting that Audio Fidelity use a conversion from 8-track tape or vinyl as the source for a release, are you?
Cause they definitely will not do that, and they shouldn't.
 
You're not suggesting that Audio Fidelity use a conversion from 8-track tape or vinyl as the source for a release, are you?
Cause they definitely will not do that, and they shouldn't.

Bite your tongue, rt. I'm NOT suggesting AF do the conversions but unfortunately since all or most of the A&M Quad masters are MIA, perhaps we might have our European counterparts who did the Wakeman DVD~As attempt the same with other lost QUAD treasures. AF's Stereo remaster of Joe Cocker's With A Little Help From My Friends is probably the best we'll ever have from this artist and hopefully they'll eventually release Mad Dogs & Englishmen in stereo but with the latest Turntable technology and the existence of the SQ Surround Master, I think a few miracles could eventually be accomplished in the QUAD vinyl restoration department. I was never a fan of Q8, BTW, but some of those dolby b Q8's sounded damn fine .... back in the day!

And I wholeheartedly agree: there is NO substitute for the absolute master tapes.
 
Bite your tongue, rt. I'm NOT suggesting AF do the conversions but unfortunately since all or most of the A&M Quad masters are MIA, perhaps we might have our European counterparts who did the Wakeman DVD~As attempt the same with other lost QUAD treasures. AF's Stereo remaster of Joe Cocker's With A Little Help From My Friends is probably the best we'll ever have from this artist and hopefully they'll eventually release Mad Dogs & Englishmen in stereo but with the latest Turntable technology and the existence of the SQ Surround Master, I think a few miracles could eventually be accomplished in the QUAD vinyl restoration department. I was never a fan of Q8, BTW, but some of those dolby b Q8's sounded damn fine .... back in the day!

And I wholeheartedly agree: there is NO substitute for the absolute master tapes.

Ok, I wouldn't have any issue with that as long as the label releasing the DVDAs (likely Universal since they are in charge of the A&M catalogue) are honest about how they are sourcing the Quad mix for a release (also unlikely seeing as how it took them months to come clean about the Wakeman sources, and even today there are still doubters…)
But please refrain from telling me to bite my lip in the future. I deserve more respect than that...
 
Ok, I wouldn't have any issue with that as long as the label releasing the DVDAs (likely Universal since they are in charge of the A&M catalogue) are honest about how they are sourcing the Quad mix for a release (also unlikely seeing as how it took them months to come clean about the Wakeman sources, and even today there are still doubters…)
But please refrain from telling me to bite my lip in the future. I deserve more respect than that...

I meant No disrespect, rt. It's a commonly used expression. What I do like about the Wakeman DVD~As is that they're selling for a very non premium price and I feel they're not coming clean on the source material to avoid turning off prospective buyers who demand that master tapes be utilized, instead. Sneaky, but effective I suppose. They're obviously selling well enough.
 
OMG....they used my fostex conversion, this is awesome. It would have been nice if a credit or thanks were included, but I'm quite honored.

Hi AOQ:)

Are you referring to the new issue of "Journey"? Are you saying it was sourced from your 8-Track Quad master?

Thanks!
 
I received this Rick Wakeman, Journey To The Center Of The Earth, 2 disc, 2016 set yesterday. I listened via MLP 4.0 DVD-A, and wasn't really impressed. I guess I am just not much of a proggy. I took it is a good B movie, that was entertaining and I was more than happy to be having a listen, reading the liner notes, etc. The sound quality was a touch muddy (1974 Live Recording) and the mix, at times was too much in the rears, again, at times. Not sure when I will listen again?
 
Hi AOQ:)

Are you referring to the new issue of "Journey"? Are you saying it was sourced from your 8-Track Quad master?

Thanks!

Yes, although it's not a quad master, just a standard issue tape. Through some casual email exchanges it was mentioned the master was lost for this one as well, and work was being done on conversions for this. So, I pulled out my 2 CD4 copies, and Q8 copy, and worked each one up the best I could, and sent them over, to give them more options to choose from. I never heard back, but I picked up a copy to see what ended up happening with that, and sure enough, my fostex conversion is on the dvd-a.

journey.jpg
 
Hi AOQ:)

Are you referring to the new issue of "Journey"? Are you saying it was sourced from your 8-Track Quad master?

Thanks!


That's what he's saying.

Which doesn't mean it must sound bad. For example, from the samples I heard, AoQ's Q8 of 'Six Wives' sounds quite a bit better than the DVD-A (which a sourced from an SQ LP, and decoded by software, and is significantly less discrete than the Q8) -- and better than any of the other SQ-decoded versions I have (which used later generation decoding software).

The "King Arthur' DVD-A was sourced from a CD4 LP and I expect that's more discrete than the Six Wives DVD-A too.
 
Yes, although it's not a quad master, just a standard issue tape. Through some casual email exchanges it was mentioned the master was lost for this one as well, and work was being done on conversions for this. So, I pulled out my 2 CD4 copies, and Q8 copy, and worked each one up the best I could, and sent them over, to give them more options to choose from. I never heard back, but I picked up a copy to see what ended up happening with that, and sure enough, my fostex conversion is on the dvd-a.

View attachment 26075

Ok, sincere thanks & props for the info. So... that means I invested over 50$ for a copy of a dude's old 8-track. Charming. :rolleyes:
At least I will get a nice reproduction of the programme. :confused:

Ok, overall, I will still declare victory when my super deluxe edition arrives. We all have heard the sad news about A&M lost tapes, so I guess this proves ALL the 4.0 bloody tapes were lost. Pathetic really since Sony paid 50 millions dollars for A&M in the early 1980's, you'd think they would have taken batter care of their intellectual property.

We know these Wakeman reissues only exist due to a Wakeman Super Fan who is a high level executive at Universal who got the project going with great effort, so I remain happy cause the alternative is nothing. But I did get my hopes up a bit after Bob Romano's positive review. These Wakeman reissues are a great example of the continuing struggle we surround lovers deal with. One step forward, one step back. It makes me really appreciate the 5.1 remixes from original high quality multi-track tapes that we do get. :)

Very nice work Good Sir Army of Quad, thanks to you we get a 4.0 version to enjoy! (y) I am still looking forward to that.

I wonder what kind of post processing was done to AOQ's submission?

And what source was used for the 2.0 version?
 
The source for the DVDA 2.0* was Mobile Fidelity's mastering. That *is* credited on the packaging.

And btw, the Q8 wasn't just played back in your standard issue 8-track cartridge player with unknown head quality and alignment. The tape was removed from its cartridge and threaded onto a nice Fostex reel-to-reel deck.

(*The CD is a different/new mastering)
 
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Other than lowering the level a little and adding fades at the start and end of the programs, I don't detect any further processing from what I submitted.

One of the real advantages of the fostex conversions is manually adjusting the head by ear to the tape. I've really found that the head adjustment does vary from tape to tape, and that really helps get every little bit you can out of the tape, so this will be a better experience than just popping some dude's old 8-track into a standard deck. Part of me wonders if I should have held off on revealing my discovery to see where the speculation would have gone in the discussion, as no one suggested it sounded like a Q8 in their early reviews, although I don't think anyone said they definitely think it's the master either. But in the end, I'd rather people know what they're buying. I just hope no one dismisses it as a poor old worn sounding tape without hearing it.
 
Other than lowering the level a little and adding fades at the start and end of the programs, I don't detect any further processing from what I submitted.

One of the real advantages of the fostex conversions is manually adjusting the head by ear to the tape. I've really found that the head adjustment does vary from tape to tape, and that really helps get every little bit you can out of the tape, so this will be a better experience than just popping some dude's old 8-track into a standard deck. Part of me wonders if I should have held off on revealing my discovery to see where the speculation would have gone in the discussion, as no one suggested it sounded like a Q8 in their early reviews, although I don't think anyone said they definitely think it's the master either. But in the end, I'd rather people know what they're buying. I just hope no one dismisses it as a poor old worn sounding tape without hearing it.

AOQ, I listened to Journey tonight critically on my Meridian 800 DVD~A player on my main system and first of all I marvelled at the s/n ratio. There was very little hiss as I was aware from your post that it was your conversion from a Q8 tape operating at 3 3/4 ips. Secondly, there was no distortion but because of the low encoding level I had to raise my volume to 82 (normally, I play RBCDs at 64 and most DVD~As at between 68~72). The transfer was seamless and the surrounds were perfectly integrated with the fronts resulting in a nicely immersive effect.

I then switched players and spun the DVD~A 96/24 stereo version on my Meridian Reference 808 player which I assumed came from the master utilized by Mobile Fidelity to cut their vinyl and/or 24k Gold RBCDs and no offense to you but the uptick in quality was extremely apparent to me.

Journey is by no means an audiophile recording as it was recorded LIVE and I had previously read Wakeman had stated that it was not economical to record it in a studio environment like the previous Wakeman DVD~A releases, Six Wives and King Arthur.

The Night before, I listened to the Universal Hong Kong Stereo SACD of Don McLean's American Pie and although I love the album, the HISS was unbearable. Since no source was listed, I am wondering if they accessed the original masters or if it was replicated from a tape a few generations removed.

In closing, although I did enjoy Journey and compliment you on your marvelous conversion, my favorite in terms of Sound Quality remains King Arthur and to a lesser extent Six Wives (had the SQ Surround Master been available I truly believe it would've sounded much better).

As a former Open Reel buff I was never fond when the majors started releasing their Open Reels at 3 3/4 ips (to SAVE tape naturally) and I never owned an 8 track with adjustable heads (nor a Q8 machine), so I was naturally impressed with your efforts but wonder in the future if utilizing Q8 tapes is such a grand idea when transferring classic albums to a higher resolution format.

Am I glad Journey was released as a Quad DVD~A.....Absolutely......but....with reservations.
 
i am just curious how you know for sure that it is your conversion.

I did want to be absolutely sure before making any such claim, so I extracted the audio, took a channel from the extracted and my Q8 file I sent, and aligned them in audition. Not only did they align perfectly, but when I lowered the level on mine to match, it was perfect mono.
 
AOQ, I listened to Journey tonight critically on my Meridian 800 DVD~A player on my main system and first of all I marvelled at the s/n ratio. There was very little hiss as I was aware from your post that it was your conversion from a Q8 tape operating at 3 3/4 ips. Secondly, there was no distortion but because of the low encoding level I had to raise my volume to 82 (normally, I play RBCDs at 64 and most DVD~As at between 68~72). The transfer was seamless and the surrounds were perfectly integrated with the fronts resulting in a nicely immersive effect.

I then switched players and spun the DVD~A 96/24 stereo version on my Meridian Reference 808 player which I assumed came from the master utilized by Mobile Fidelity to cut their vinyl and/or 24k Gold RBCDs and no offense to you but the uptick in quality was extremely apparent to me.

4 channel compared to 2 channel, a bit apples and oranges, don't you think? Different mixes, and originally different master tapes.

In closing, although I did enjoy Journey and compliment you on your marvelous conversion, my favorite in terms of Sound Quality remains King Arthur and to a lesser extent Six Wives (had the SQ Surround Master been available I truly believe it would've sounded much better).

Do you realize that the King Arthur 4.0 DVDA wasn't sourced from master tapes either?

As a former Open Reel buff I was never fond when the majors started releasing their Open Reels at 3 3/4 ips (to SAVE tape naturally) and I never owned an 8 track with adjustable heads (nor a Q8 machine), so I was naturally impressed with your efforts but wonder in the future if utilizing Q8 tapes is such a grand idea when transferring classic albums to a higher resolution format.

Q8 at least offers a chance of fully discrete representation of the 4-channel master mix. That's a plus, if the master isn't available
 
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