Rush "Hemispheres" (40th Anniversary Box Set with 5.1 Blu-Ray Audio!)

[Nova]

Ok I now have listened to this 3 times at a very good volume , my above statements are now confirmed and much louder . Hemispheres DTS Drums are Boxed in , Bass is missing that low end until he plays the Taurus Bass Peddles.
At 6:27 the lead guitar blasts through the center channel almost drowning out the rest of the music. I found that the lead vocals are drowned out in many parts.
CIRCUMSTANCES has a much better music mix , Rears are mostly ambient until the break.
The TREES again at 25:01 the guitar lead blasts through the center .
La Villa is a bit more dynamic as an instrumental until ......... 33:20 where once again you get a SUPER WTF Lead in the center .
Listening to the Dolby version puts a little smoothness in the mix and seems to bring the Bass up a bit , This is a great album that for me comes no where near the dynamic sound of AFTK ! again I feel that some of it has to do with the music itself being thick and layered as where AFTK songs have more space to them. But I am thankful for all these great albums that are being done in Surround, and only have STEVE WILSON to blame for this ! He has spoiled us rotten !
and for those saying that I should turn down the center ,crank up the bass, cut the Highs , ect .......everything i have sounds great on my system , this mix lacks balance and isn't Balance what Hemispheres is all about !
Happy Thanks Giving to all ! So glad that this Forum is still around!

 

[edisonbaggins]

Back at this one again, after tuning the matched subs.
Today's observation is, check out how main vocal is in the surrounds... [ducks for cover]
But only sometimes...

 

[edisonbaggins]

So, ugh...
I think I'm passing through the classic stages of grief over this one...
I've tried all the fussing possible on my system. The plain truth, to my ears, is that the lead guitar in the center is around 2.5 - 3db too loud, and the upper register (strained tenor) lead vocal is around 2.5 - 3db too quiet (or is otherwise diffused somehow).
Turning the center channel down corrects the lead situation, but then you reduce what else is there (hi hat, moog, etc.).
Turning up the surrounds makes the upper register vocal almost present enough, when the surrounds carry vocal, but they don't always. Only certain overdubs, I suspect. At times louder surrounds drown the lead vocal more...
Then there is the buried Armageddon guitar overdub...
No channel adjustments can fix all the issues here.
I have compared Cygnus Book II to all the other Chycki mixes I own: Snakes & Arrows, Fly By Night, A Farewell to Kings, Moving Pictures, Signals and 2112. Hemispheres is the only mix with buried vocals.
2112 has one buried overdub (lead guitar at the end of Overture) and one that is too loud (lead guitar at the beginning of Bangkok), but is otherwise fine. Snakes & Arrows has terribly muddy bass. Yikes. Cygnus Book I has some out of control hiss.
But the vocals are fine on all. So, wtf happened here?
I'm passing out of denial in to anger...
Some have said that Hemispheres is Chycki's best mix yet. I have to disagree. I think it might actually be his worst, save possibly Snakes & Arrows, depending on what happened with the bass there. It's pretty bad in stereo and the DD 5.1 is badly mastered too.
Fairly frustrated about this, but at least there is a lot of awesome surround to indulge in right now.
And La Villa Strangiato is pretty solid too...

 

[ssully]

I guess I don't understand why anyone would go through the trouble of different masterings for Dolby vs DTS vs LCPM.

They wouldn't.

 

[Frogmort]

They wouldn't.

It probably comes down to Dialnorm variances in the losslessly compressed codecs compared to the original LPCM audio.

Just in case anyone is unknowledgeable about it's misleading nomenclature, Dialog Normalization increases or decreases all channels equally to get to a normalized overall volume, it doesn't actually change any channel levels in relation to each other. I think it might have been invented to make sure tv commercials weren't too loud, but for some reason they keep using it inappropriately on lossless blu-rays.

 

[Nova]

On a lighter note what is the the significance of the street signs PAPE Ave & Danforth on the visuals and in the book ? out of curiosity i put it in Google Maps and on that corner in Toronto Canada is INSIGHT DIAGNOSTIC IMAGING.
Perhaps the place where they had all the Brain scans done for the Visuals for Hemispheres ?

 

[ssully]

It probably comes down to Dialnorm variances in the losslessly compressed codecs compared to the original LPCM audio.

Just in case anyone is unknowledgeable about it's misleading nomenclature, Dialog Normalization increases or decreases all channels equally to get to a normalized overall volume, it doesn't actually change any channel levels in relation to each other. I think it might have been invented to make sure tv commercials weren't too loud, but for some reason they keep using it inappropriately on lossless blu-rays.

Yup. Level matching DD playback to other formats is not easy.

From what is still *the* best article on DTS vs Dolby on the internets:

Any attempt to compare the domestic versions of Dolby Digital and DTS with one another is extremely difficult due to one major technical difference. The domestic version of Dolby Digital incorporates a feature, called 'dialog normalization', designed to maintain a consistent centre-channel volume from all Dolby Digital sources. The dialog normalization system is designed to ensure that the average centre-channel volume is always between -25 and -31dBFS (decibels below digital full-scale), regardless of source. As a result, if dialogue is recorded at a higher volume, the Dolby Digital decoder automatically attenuates the volume of all channels to the level at which the centre-channel outputs dialogue at the set 'dialnorm' level (usually -31dBFS for Dolby Digital on DVD). Most movies' centre-channels are recorded at -27dBFS, which results in an overall lowering of 4dB in all channels. Movies can be recorded at anything from -23dBFS (e.g. 'Wild Things') to -31dBFS (e.g. 'Air Force One', non-SuperBit and 'Twister: SE'), resulting in nominal overall volume attenuation of up to 8dB ('Wild Things') or more. All channels maintain their correct relative balance, so no detrimental sonic effects can be attributed to the dialnorm process. But, because the result can be up to an 8dB reduction in volume, there is no easy way to compare DTS and Dolby Digital versions of a film's soundtrack. The overall volume of the DTS version may be 8dB or more higher than the Dolby Digital soundtrack, making direct comparisons nearly impossible. As dialnorm is constantly variable in 1dB increments, the exact difference in overall volume between Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks often varies from film to film.

 

[Frogmort]

Yup. Level matching DD playback to other formats is not easy.

From what is still *the* best article on DTS vs Dolby on the internets:

Dolby and DTS can both incorporate Dialnorm, although Dolby uses it much, much more frequently. I saw a DTS value of -1dB on my Onkyo AVR and TrueHD as high as +4dB. My AVR shows the correction applied, not the -dB normalization.

 

[jsulzinger]

On a lighter note what is the the significance of the street signs PAPE Ave & Danforth on the visuals and in the book ? out of curiosity i put it in Google Maps and on that corner in Toronto Canada is INSIGHT DIAGNOSTIC IMAGING.
Perhaps the place where they had all the Brain scans done for the Visuals for Hemispheres ?

It is part VII of La Villa Strangiato

 

[All Ears]

On a lighter note what is the the significance of the street signs PAPE Ave & Danforth on the visuals and in the book ? out of curiosity i put it in Google Maps and on that corner in Toronto Canada is INSIGHT DIAGNOSTIC IMAGING.
Perhaps the place where they had all the Brain scans done for the Visuals for Hemispheres ?

http://news.cygnus-x1.net/2013/11/rush-inspired-apparel-from-danforth-pape.html

 

[Nova]

http://news.cygnus-x1.net/2013/11/rush-inspired-apparel-from-danforth-pape.html

Thanks !

 

[himey]

I know a few QQ reviews alluded to the fact that The White Album's Dolby True HD codec is encoded at a lower level than the DTS MA codec. What would you make of that?

I was able to rip both the DTS and DD lossless tracks, using the invert function in Audacity, I am able to confirm they are both identical. I only tested the White Album. I don't have a copy of Hemispheres yet. So with that fact on the table, what I make of it is some normalization must be going on in their player/settings.

 

[skherbeck]

The Surround Sound Catch-22:
-Record company produces a set with a crappy surround mix
-If it doesn't sell well, the perceived message is that consumers don't want surround mixes
-If it does sell well, the perceived message is that consumers want more of the same (crappy) surround mixes

We now have an opportunity to get around this Catch-22... If the Steven Wilson mix of AFTK sells significantly better than the Rich Chycki mix of Hemispheres (or the Rich Chycki mix of AFTK, for that matter), we might be able to send a different message... specifically, that consumers want GOOD surround mixes!

Unfortunately, I think the Hemispheres set will sell just as well as AFTK because the majority of purchases are not motivated by the presence of a surround mix. Honestly, with Rush being as popular as they are, a super deluxe set with nothing but rings and marbles would probably sell out.

 

[Nova]

The Surround Sound Catch-22:
-Record company produces a set with a crappy surround mix
-If it doesn't sell well, the perceived message is that consumers don't want surround mixes
-If it does sell well, the perceived message is that consumers want more of the same (crappy) surround mixes

We now have an opportunity to get around this Catch-22... If the Steven Wilson mix of AFTK sells significantly better than the Rich Chycki mix of Hemispheres (or the Rich Chycki mix of AFTK, for that matter), we might be able to send a different message... specifically, that consumers want GOOD surround mixes!

Unfortunately, I think the Hemispheres set will sell just as well as AFTK because the majority of purchases are not motivated by the presence of a surround mix. Honestly, with Rush being as popular as they are, a super deluxe set with nothing but rings and marbles would probably sell out.

This theory was Busted on Mythbusters TO BUY OR NOT TO BUY !

 

[edisonbaggins]

I sent an email to what I think is a good address for Mr. Chycki, explaining the issues some of us are reporting, asking him to check the final master.
I have a hard time believing he meant to bury the vocal and blast the lead guitar.
He has buried the occasional overdub before, so that might have been intentional/an oversight.
I have no delusion about receiving a response...

 

[Nova]

I sent an email to what I think is a good address for Mr. Chycki, explaining the issues some of us are reporting, asking him to check the final master.
I have a hard time believing he meant to bury the vocal and blast the lead guitar.
He has buried the occasional overdub before, so that might have been intentional/an oversight.
I have no delusion about receiving a response...

This Could be another THICK AS A BRICK !

 

[edisonbaggins]

This Could be another THICK AS A BRICK !

It is a letdown, at this point. I might message SRO and see if there is any response...

 

[perzon57]

I hear no problem with the vocals,strong and clear on my setup.But the mix sounds mostly like an upmix.The fidelity is very good,though.

 

[edisonbaggins]

I hear no problem with the vocals,strong and clear on my setup.But the mix sounds mostly like an upmix.The fidelity is very good,though.

perzon57, I directly A/B'ed Hemispheres to ALL of Chycki's previous Rush mixes. By comparison, the lead upper register vocal (not his lower baritone stuff) IS buried, boxy and distant. Also, compared to the stereo mix on the blu-ray.
If you like the vocal for the 5.1 mix, cool. His stated mission is to honor the original mix though. On all previous Rush remixes he did all right at that. On Hemi it is noticeably different (for the worse).

 

[thatoneguy]

It is interesting to see the varied opinions on the Hemispheres mix. Steven Wilson's remixes are far superior to the Chycki surround mixes I've heard. Mixes such as Snakes and Arrows and Signals are unlistenable to me, and I was disappointed in Moving Pictures and 2112.

However, I am glad I purchased Hemispheres (I almost didn't but saw a few reviews that indicated Chycki is moving in the right direction). On my system, the Hemispheres 5.1 mix sounds pretty solid. I am not hearing the balance issues that some are experiencing. The levels sound quite faithful to the 2 channel mix on my system (Cambridge Audio Azur 851C and Anthem AVM-50 pre), and I am hearing some discrete output. Hemispheres definitely does not sound like an upmix on my system, though admittedly Snakes and Arrows sounded horrific. I lasted 2 tracks on the S&A 5.1 and then had to reach for the air sickness bag.

Anyway, while this isn't a reference 5.1 mix by any means (Talking Heads Remain In Light is an example of what sounds ideal for my taste), to my ears on my system Hemispheres is hands down the best Rush surround work Chycki has done. It is enjoyable and is a nice companion to the original 2 channel mix.