That was my experience when I upgraded to a 7.2.4 Atmos setup. All 7 of my floor speakers are Martin-Logan electrostatics but I opted for in-ceiling speakers with 8" woofers and concentric pivoting dome tweeters. Two are mounted in front of and two behind the listening position with all the tweeters pointed directly at the listener. Although the technology of these speakers couldn't be more different from the Martin-Logans, after volume matching I've never had an issue with blending or imaging. Given the typical use of height channels in both movies and multichannel music, I really don't think you need to spend a fortune on height speakers. Of course, they should be of decent quality - and if you have the money and determination to install fully matching speakers in your ceiling go for it. Just keep in mind you don't have to in order to implement a satisfying Atmos setup.
Seeking Recommendations on Ceiling Speakers for Atmos
- Thread starter splinter7
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Which begs the question once again, what are decent quality height speakers?
(My Polk Monitors are certainly not high dollar, in fact I think many years back when I bought them they listed around 200-ish a pair.)
But I do not bring this up really to talk about what I have, but what others consider sufficient for height speakers?
To put it more in terms of bottom end capabilities/frequency response, do you think you need ceiling speakers that have a frequency response down to 60dB? 70? 80?
Rather than just listing the speakers you own, I would like to hear your response to the above question, and if possible your reasoning.
Not a contest folks, just asking. Perhaps this could help someone just jumping into immersive music.
(My Polk Monitors are certainly not high dollar, in fact I think many years back when I bought them they listed around 200-ish a pair.)
But I do not bring this up really to talk about what I have, but what others consider sufficient for height speakers?
To put it more in terms of bottom end capabilities/frequency response, do you think you need ceiling speakers that have a frequency response down to 60dB? 70? 80?
Rather than just listing the speakers you own, I would like to hear your response to the above question, and if possible your reasoning.
Not a contest folks, just asking. Perhaps this could help someone just jumping into immersive music.
minimumtumbleweed
300 Club - QQ All-Star
I use Polk OWM3s which are maybe $200 new (pair) and probably easy to find used since they are so ubiquitous. I put them on swivel mounts that went in to the joists on the ceiling; super easy to install, I can point them wear I want, and they sound just fine. Recommending that someone use the same speakers that they use for Front/Surround is a bit odd in my opinion. I can see that maybe working if all your speakers are relatively lightweigt bookshelf speakers. Otherwise it's not really feasible and, in my opinion, completely unnecessary. When calibrating your speakers you should be setting the crossover on the atmos speakers to about 100-150 Hz anyhow.
I have a feeling this thread is drifting toward this other one:
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/atmos-full-range-discussion.33713/
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/atmos-full-range-discussion.33713/
When I decided to upgrade to Atmos I was a bit skeptical of just how much better it could be over 7.1, and how much I would enjoy it. Therefore I was not going to blindly spend a lot of money and effort up front. That meant researching to find reasonably inexpensive in-wall/ceiling speakers that had at least a few good reviews behind them. I figured if I really liked the Atmos effect, but found the speakers somewhat lacking I could always upgrade again, later. The speakers I chose were inexpensive, relatively easy to install, have a frequency response: 40Hz-20kHz, and have moveable tweeters. After nearly 2 years of use I can say that I'm very happy with the results and consider the Atmos upgrade one of the most significant upgrades I've ever made to my system. Even better, I feel no need to install larger or more expensive "matching" ceiling speakers. Since I have multiple subwoofers, I have no need for significant additional bass coming from my ceiling. I know the prevailing wisdom is to use all identical speakers in any surround setup, and if you have the money to do that go ahead, but I've been very happy with a less expensive solution.
minimumtumbleweed
300 Club - QQ All-Star
Oh, let's not go back to that post, please...
I don't disagree - Atmos is full-range. But the content so rarely is; you're better off spending money where it matters.
barfle
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
When I was building my room, I installed four Yamaha in-wall speakers in the ceiling, located as the Dolby website recommended, with some movement to miss the joists. They cost about $50 each, so $200 for the lot. That was four years ago, and, sadly, I have yet to fire them up, because I put them in without the equipment to decode or drive them. I picked them because they were decently reviewed, rugged enough for the environment, and easily installed during construction.
Atmos isn’t at the top of my list of enhancements to the room, so I’d be surprised if they got energized this year unless I get real lucky with the lottery, and I don’t buy tickets. It’s coming, but I’ve got so many projects in my house that I tell people I live in the projects.
Still waiting for someone to come up with a bracket for installing a subwoofer (or 4) on the ceiling....
I installed the original version of these after reading good reviews and have been very happy with them so far:
https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-mkii-in-ceiling-speaker/
https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-mkii-in-ceiling-speaker/
jimfisheye
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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jimfisheye
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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I don't mean this as a critique of any specific 7.1.4 mix.
There will be some great 12 ch mixes.
There will be a handful of 12 ch mixes that truly demand the 12 channels and height speakers and take this to the next level.
There will be phoned-in 12 ch mixes that don't really justify their existence in 5.1 let alone 7.1.4.
And there will be faux mixes that are mostly stereo. Some will be upmixed from stereo!
All kinds of things will use the format. Everything from boutique 12 ch mixes that demand the 12 channels and set new reference standards to crude movie soundtracks and football on TV (where the surround mix decisions are more about how it folds down to stereo and mono).
I want to suggest that fussing over audiophile grade speakers and matching the array only makes sense if you are a music listener and like some of the more niche boutique mixes. If this is you, you absolutely want to extend your array with like speakers for the height channels. Just like you don't want to compromise any of the speakers on the floor. Jenky speakers or soundbars are great for football game sound, not so much for music mixes.
Going from stereo to 4.0 or 5.1 was night and day! Going from 5.1 to 7.1.4 was another day. A great day, yes! But another day. There's the same 'all or nothing' factor as with the rest of your speakers for critical music listening. If you're going for music listening, pause a little and get real additional speakers. This is going to be niche territory to begin with and only a small handful of mixes that are not only great but actually demand the 12 ch system to be heard in full. THAT is what you are setting up for!
It's going to be the case that a lot of 12 ch mixes could just as easily hit the mark in 5.1. I don't think anything needs to justify the expanded system, mind you. Of course it's only going to be a handful of over the top productions that do that. But that's the thing. THESE are what you want the ability to hear. The other stuff will be fine in 5.1. If you're putting in the effort to hang speakers and set this up, dot those last i's and cross those last t's.
There will be some great 12 ch mixes.
There will be a handful of 12 ch mixes that truly demand the 12 channels and height speakers and take this to the next level.
There will be phoned-in 12 ch mixes that don't really justify their existence in 5.1 let alone 7.1.4.
And there will be faux mixes that are mostly stereo. Some will be upmixed from stereo!
All kinds of things will use the format. Everything from boutique 12 ch mixes that demand the 12 channels and set new reference standards to crude movie soundtracks and football on TV (where the surround mix decisions are more about how it folds down to stereo and mono).
I want to suggest that fussing over audiophile grade speakers and matching the array only makes sense if you are a music listener and like some of the more niche boutique mixes. If this is you, you absolutely want to extend your array with like speakers for the height channels. Just like you don't want to compromise any of the speakers on the floor. Jenky speakers or soundbars are great for football game sound, not so much for music mixes.
Going from stereo to 4.0 or 5.1 was night and day! Going from 5.1 to 7.1.4 was another day. A great day, yes! But another day. There's the same 'all or nothing' factor as with the rest of your speakers for critical music listening. If you're going for music listening, pause a little and get real additional speakers. This is going to be niche territory to begin with and only a small handful of mixes that are not only great but actually demand the 12 ch system to be heard in full. THAT is what you are setting up for!
It's going to be the case that a lot of 12 ch mixes could just as easily hit the mark in 5.1. I don't think anything needs to justify the expanded system, mind you. Of course it's only going to be a handful of over the top productions that do that. But that's the thing. THESE are what you want the ability to hear. The other stuff will be fine in 5.1. If you're putting in the effort to hang speakers and set this up, dot those last i's and cross those last t's.
jimfisheye
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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I had my whole expanded system up and calibrated before finally getting the software to decode too! Dolby are difficult to work with and especially since they started only selling the encoder suite (which is how you get their reference player) to corporate partners a while ago. 4 additional channels of amps should be easy enough but the reference player software is a PITA to source at present.
Moving forward and all but I have to say it will be welcome to see more 7.1.4 mixes that are free of Dolby encoding hit the streets! Having to replace a whole AVR to get 4 more amp channels because you need software hidden inside of it is not going to fly nor should it! And then getting into passing encoded data stream over HDMI and all the shenanigans around that with copy protection gone wild. Hell no!
I installed 4 ‘in-ceiling’ speakers B&W CCM 683 for the Atmos 9.1.4 in the Dolby recommended locations. In the last picture, you can see the in-ceiling Atmos ‘Top Front Right’.
I also installed Bookshelf speakers for Auro-3D in their recommended locations. I used some cages built by the windows installer, as I was rebuilding the whole room. Look below to the pictures.
What I can say is that, even the ‘in-ceiling’ are good enough quality (orientable tweeter) the bookshelf ones are better. I really notice a difference when there is enough content for the Tops/Heights.
I can switch the speakers and reconfigure the AVR to use the Auro-3D Bookshelf for Atmos, although they are not in the ‘canonical' Dolby recommended location. If I don’t care about the right imaging effects, the sound from above is obviously better with the bookshelfs.
Conclusion: If you are able to install ‘good bookshelf’ speakers in the ceiling, do it. Ideally, the same units as the surrounds. Because the Fronts could be bigger towers.
I also installed Bookshelf speakers for Auro-3D in their recommended locations. I used some cages built by the windows installer, as I was rebuilding the whole room. Look below to the pictures.
What I can say is that, even the ‘in-ceiling’ are good enough quality (orientable tweeter) the bookshelf ones are better. I really notice a difference when there is enough content for the Tops/Heights.
I can switch the speakers and reconfigure the AVR to use the Auro-3D Bookshelf for Atmos, although they are not in the ‘canonical' Dolby recommended location. If I don’t care about the right imaging effects, the sound from above is obviously better with the bookshelfs.
Conclusion: If you are able to install ‘good bookshelf’ speakers in the ceiling, do it. Ideally, the same units as the surrounds. Because the Fronts could be bigger towers.
I have just taken the plunge to 5.0.4 ATMOS and bought 4x B&W M-1s (in White), they'll have to be screwed to the wall above the picture rail and up close to the ceiling - not sure how I'll get the cabling to them yet! They're to go with my new Denon X8500HA and current Monitor Audio 4x Silver RS8 Floorstanders & RS Centre.
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beerking
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Thats how I have my SVS's Duncan. I ran cable conduit up the side of the walls to meet the position of the speakers.
Welcome to the Atmos club.
beerking
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Exhibit A
Yeah I've got the rectangular cable channel run all over my audio room. May not be pretty but better than bare wires.
I recently experienced the same technical issue(s) (even though I DID know better!) with my non-matching in-ceiling speakers (NHT's), fronts (B&W 805's) and sub's (M&K). I was switching over from a 2-channel system to a 5.1 surround system and was trying to make things work with the gear that I had, and boy was I underwhelmed! I stayed within the B&W line as there was NO way I was going to replace my 805's but instead stepped down a series (700 Series S) for my in-ceiling speakers (did I mention I have 12-foot ceilings which makes things even more challenging for any system!), center channel and subs. And BAMB! Now this is what I was hoping for! My point is system integration is so very important and not to taken lightly as the time, effort and expense does NOT get any less. Full disclosure, I have been happily divorced since 2004 so I don't have to have these potentially "dicey" discussions with anyone but my ears and wallet.
I've read that the square SVS emblem is magnetic - you can remove it and place it upright. That way the SVS is not upside down.
beerking
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Indeed, I just think it looks cooler in reverseI've read that the square SVS emblem is magnetic - you can remove it and place it upright. That way the SVS is not upside down.
And of course, I couldn't be arsed to change it...
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