Shhh! - Secret super speaker!!

QuadraphonicQuad

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

chucky3042

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
2,465
Dear All

Well being 64 years old now, I have decided to go out with a blaze of glory and finally design the super electrostatic full range speaker. As some of you will know we designed and were in manufacture of the Nakamichi dragon hybrid electrostatic speaker way back in 2007 (Immersion PLC), only to be hit with the GFC and financial issues between the Grande group and Nakamichi, unfortunately its the best hybrid speaker that frazzled out. That speaker was high performance but ultimately a compromise and it was still a visual style statement.

In more recent years we have been developing bookshelf sized stuff and that has really helped push the technology and enabled us to get previously unachievable performance from small panels and crazy high SPL. In addition we have learnt how to control the polar pattern and adjust it to various angles. I am now designing and have started building what I hope to be a "no holds bared" full range, fully active, tri amped electrostatic.

It will feature
Full range electrostatic
3 x 450 Watt class D amplifiers
Active electronic 3 way crossovers
Passive clipping elimination crossover (yes a clip will come out as a pure sine at its fundamental frequency!)
Frequency response flat from 30 Hz to 40 kHz
Differential RCA and XLR inputs
Glass look smoked acrylic structure including rear fin structure (patience)
It will be slightly over 2 meters tall

Oh it will be expensive but we will have a smaller cousin based on its 120 Hz - 40 kHz panel section that you can combine with your own sub, it will be 2 X 450 W class D bi amped- this will be at a way lower price.

Well chaps, I will show only you guys progress pictures. So far I have made the panels, the panels are targeted 30 Hz- 120 Hz, 120 Hz- 5 kHz and 5 kHz- 40 kHz. The panel work is based on stuff designed by ER Audio and myself 16 years ago that has now been updated to PCB as per our recent panels. Next, the lovely Kali and I are designing the electronics and little Mexico Max will design the mechanicals. It will take many months but I think it will be sensational.

See below:

IMG_20220919_154630.jpg
IMG_20220919_155129.jpg


I will keep you posted. Oh, whats it got to do with Quad........buy4 units!
 
Last edited:

kap'n krunch

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
8,527
Location
la nouvelle orleàns, estados hundidos
Dear All

Well being 64 years old now, I have decided to go out with a blaze of glory and finally design the super electrostatic full range speaker. As some of you will know we designed and were in manufacture of the Nakamichi dragon hybrid electrostatic speaker way back in 2007 (Immersion PLC), only to be hit with the GFC and financial issues between the Grande group and Nakamichi, unfortunately its the best hybrid speaker that frazzled out. That speaker was high performance but ultimately a compromise and it was still a visual style statement.

In more recent years we have been developing bookshelf sized stuff and that has really helped push the technology and enabled us to get previously unachievable performance from small panels and crazy high SPL. In addition we have learnt how to control the polar pattern and adjust it to various angles. I am now designing and have started building what I hope to be a "no holds bared" full range, fully active, tri amped electrostatic.

It will feature
Full range electrostatic
3 x 450 Watt class D amplifiers
Active electronic 3 way crossovers
Passive clipping elimination crossover (yes a clip will come out as a pure sine at its fundamental frequency!)
Frequency response flat from 30 Hz to 40 kHz
Differential RCA and XLR inputs
Glass look smoked acrylic structure including rear fin structure (patience)
It will be slightly over 2 meters tall

Oh it will be expensive but we will have a smaller cousin based on its 120 Hz - 40 kHz panel section that you can combine with your own sub, it will be 2 X 450 W class D bi amped- this will be at a way lower price.

Well chaps, I will show only you guys progress pictures. So far I have made the panels, the panels are targeted 30 Hz- 120 Hz, 120 Hz- 5 kHz and 5 kHz- 40 kHz. The panel work is based on stuff designed by ER Audio and myself 16 years ago that has now been updated to PCB as per our recent panels. Next, the lovely Kali and I are designing the electronics and little Mexico Max will design the mechanicals. It will take many months but I think it will be sensational.

See below:

View attachment 83690 View attachment 83691

I will keep you posted. Oh, whats it got to do with Quad........buy4 units!
And THIS is today's CENTERFOLD!!!!
I'll be in my room if anyone wants to talk to me...
 

chucky3042

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
2,465
Dear All

Really good comments and questions there chaps and in no particular order I offer the following waffle:

Edisonbaggins
Yes it will have a direct connect to your beloved favorite amplifier either single or tri amped by disabling some terminals. In doing so you will lose some (but not all) of its ability to ride over clipping and the huge surge capacity. Franky I would bin the amplifier.

Class A/ B is great but particularly in this design you will not get the great advantage of very deep soft clipping, that was one of the great advantages of valve design's. These class D things really amaze me on how deep into clipping they can run before noticing things, in addition with the 450 Watts, that gives me heaps of dB head room. Other major factors are:

1 They are so efficient 90% + and that saves me heaps of lumpy heatsinks and the various interface issues.
2 They are wonderful on low impedance loads (like electrostatics - that are brutes)
3 Music consists of lots of nothing happening with massive peaks, this means I can undersize the main power supply lump and oversize the buffering capacitors.
5 I will be running this brute from 50 V rails!
6 Duncan S is so right about the need for well designed output filtering
7 An extra big advantage of well designed class D stuff is the physical PCB foot print of the feedback loop is very small this minimises loop delays, noise pickup and ground ripple fluctuation issues.
8 They are soooo friggin fast
9 Good ones really sound great!

I mentioned privately to one of our QQ members the other day the following:
Amplifiers have always been a touchy subject with me and for the most part with average 8 ohm speakers I say spend your money elsewhere as you will get better bang for your buck. Typically amplifier ratings have become a battle of low THD numbers, you know 0.0000000001% distortion minimum when the average Joe would struggle to hear distortion below 1%. An old mate of mine "Laurie" once said "if you can see distortion on the CRO screen then you can hear it". I tried it out and he was right, it happens at 1%!!


To the best of my assessment the real thing that separates good amplifiers is its current handling capacity (or the ability to handle low Ohm loads), this is really where class D amplifiers kick arse. It could also be well argued that a good class D layout / footprint is very small and as a consequence the loop delays, earth track wobblies and the pcb area to pick up noise is greatly minimised. I listened to an early Harmon Kardon class D amplifier years ago and made the same observations you have, just really good in every way. Conversely one of my really good engineers designed a fantastic class AB amplifier that I was trialing on some very low Ohm ribbons and to me and my other mad mate Rusty sounded completely shit. When Ron increased the current ratting by adjusting the current limits it then sounded great again.



http://meamplifiers.com.au/images/ME_580_power_amplifier_review_Art_Vandelay.pdf

the article refers to "winovate"- its one of my other companies I started- have not mentioned it to you guys!
I really think for me, as I drive really demanding hard low Ohm loads like electrostatics the current drive and in particular the soft clipping makes these brutes sound so much better than conventional stuff (lie mode disabled)


J Pupster
Woof. We need to be able to have a good response all the way out to 40 kHz purely for the pissing rights and golden eared wank factor. It all bullshit and Nyquist is correct. Old fossils like me can only hear our to 13 kHz on a good day. It is one of the reasons we cannot hear distortion on a 7 kHz tone as the first harmonic is 14 kHz!! There is so much bullshit on this topic but in the words of my mad mate Zel - I am the audio anti Christ as I am too commercial.

Kap' n crunch
Ew
 

J. PUPSTER

💿🐕 Senior Disc Chaser 🎸
QQ Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
11,035
Location
CALIFORNIA (CENTRAL)
Dear All

Really good comments and questions there chaps and in no particular order I offer the following waffle:

Edisonbaggins
Yes it will have a direct connect to your beloved favorite amplifier either single or tri amped by disabling some terminals. In doing so you will lose some (but not all) of its ability to ride over clipping and the huge surge capacity. Franky I would bin the amplifier.

Class A/ B is great but particularly in this design you will not get the great advantage of very deep soft clipping, that was one of the great advantages of valve design's. These class D things really amaze me on how deep into clipping they can run before noticing things, in addition with the 450 Watts, that gives me heaps of dB head room. Other major factors are:

1 They are so efficient 90% + and that saves me heaps of lumpy heatsinks and the various interface issues.
2 They are wonderful on low impedance loads (like electrostatics - that are brutes)
3 Music consists of lots of nothing happening with massive peaks, this means I can undersize the main power supply lump and oversize the buffering capacitors.
5 I will be running this brute from 50 V rails!
6 Duncan S is so right about the need for well designed output filtering
7 An extra big advantage of well designed class D stuff is the physical PCB foot print of the feedback loop is very small this minimises loop delays, noise pickup and ground ripple fluctuation issues.
8 They are soooo friggin fast
9 Good ones really sound great!

I mentioned privately to one of our QQ members the other day the following:
Amplifiers have always been a touchy subject with me and for the most part with average 8 ohm speakers I say spend your money elsewhere as you will get better bang for your buck. Typically amplifier ratings have become a battle of low THD numbers, you know 0.0000000001% distortion minimum when the average Joe would struggle to hear distortion below 1%. An old mate of mine "Laurie" once said "if you can see distortion on the CRO screen then you can hear it". I tried it out and he was right, it happens at 1%!!


To the best of my assessment the real thing that separates good amplifiers is its current handling capacity (or the ability to handle low Ohm loads), this is really where class D amplifiers kick arse. It could also be well argued that a good class D layout / footprint is very small and as a consequence the loop delays, earth track wobblies and the pcb area to pick up noise is greatly minimised. I listened to an early Harmon Kardon class D amplifier years ago and made the same observations you have, just really good in every way. Conversely one of my really good engineers designed a fantastic class AB amplifier that I was trialing on some very low Ohm ribbons and to me and my other mad mate Rusty sounded completely shit. When Ron increased the current ratting by adjusting the current limits it then sounded great again.



http://meamplifiers.com.au/images/ME_580_power_amplifier_review_Art_Vandelay.pdf

the article refers to "winovate"- its one of my other companies I started- have not mentioned it to you guys!
I really think for me, as I drive really demanding hard low Ohm loads like electrostatics the current drive and in particular the soft clipping makes these brutes sound so much better than conventional stuff (lie mode disabled)


J Pupster
Woof. We need to be able to have a good response all the way out to 40 kHz purely for the pissing rights and golden eared wank factor. It all bullshit and Nyquist is correct. Old fossils like me can only hear our to 13 kHz on a good day. It is one of the reasons we cannot hear distortion on a 7 kHz tone as the first harmonic is 14 kHz!! There is so much bullshit on this topic but in the words of my mad mate Zel - I am the audio anti Christ as I am too commercial.

Kap' n crunch
Ew
Had my hearing checked last year, pretty much topped out at 14K and dropped precipitously fast after that. Fine with me at my age, I'm thinking the real action is really around 1k-4k. And I'm usually irritated by most high end sonics over about 8-10k anyway.
Wonder if that's true for most other folks?
 

kap'n krunch

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
8,527
Location
la nouvelle orleàns, estados hundidos
Had my hearing checked last year, pretty much topped out at 14K and dropped precipitously fast after that. Fine with me at my age, I'm thinking the real action is really around 1k-4k. And I'm usually irritated by most high end sonics over about 8-10k anyway.
Wonder if that's true for most other folks?
Of course I can't hear above 18K or so
BUT
(and I ALWAYS get in trouble for stating this but I swear to María Reyna that it's my case)
I am a big believer in trickle down theory (NOT THE ECONOMIC one), which is , if you start off with high resolution, it WILL sound MUCH better, that is why I agree with Chucky in being a sound "terrorist" and always have my speakers go as high as they can, I mean, it all started when I started comparing my CD releases with the LPs -hell, you know it way better than anyone, starting with the Thomas Dolby "Aliens..." LP which sonically kicks the CD's ass big time!- and finding out that the LP sounds way crispier...like my fries...and onion rings... oh man I am getting hungry!
ANYWAY, I am just listening to a dts disc conversion (EDIT- from CD) of Karajan's version of Sibelius "Finlandia"and it sounds great but it doesn't tingle my ears like the LP version does....
 
Last edited:

4-earredwonder

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
20,800
Dear All

Well being 64 years old now, I have decided to go out with a blaze of glory and finally design the super electrostatic full range speaker. As some of you will know we designed and were in manufacture of the Nakamichi dragon hybrid electrostatic speaker way back in 2007 (Immersion PLC), only to be hit with the GFC and financial issues between the Grande group and Nakamichi, unfortunately its the best hybrid speaker that frazzled out. That speaker was high performance but ultimately a compromise and it was still a visual style statement.

In more recent years we have been developing bookshelf sized stuff and that has really helped push the technology and enabled us to get previously unachievable performance from small panels and crazy high SPL. In addition we have learnt how to control the polar pattern and adjust it to various angles. I am now designing and have started building what I hope to be a "no holds bared" full range, fully active, tri amped electrostatic.

It will feature
Full range electrostatic
3 x 450 Watt class D amplifiers
Active electronic 3 way crossovers
Passive clipping elimination crossover (yes a clip will come out as a pure sine at its fundamental frequency!)
Frequency response flat from 30 Hz to 40 kHz
Differential RCA and XLR inputs
Glass look smoked acrylic structure including rear fin structure (patience)
It will be slightly over 2 meters tall

Oh it will be expensive but we will have a smaller cousin based on its 120 Hz - 40 kHz panel section that you can combine with your own sub, it will be 2 X 450 W class D bi amped- this will be at a way lower price.

Well chaps, I will show only you guys progress pictures. So far I have made the panels, the panels are targeted 30 Hz- 120 Hz, 120 Hz- 5 kHz and 5 kHz- 40 kHz. The panel work is based on stuff designed by ER Audio and myself 16 years ago that has now been updated to PCB as per our recent panels. Next, the lovely Kali and I are designing the electronics and little Mexico Max will design the mechanicals. It will take many months but I think it will be sensational.

See below:

View attachment 83690 View attachment 83691

I will keep you posted. Oh, whats it got to do with Quad........buy4 units!
And does that INCLUDE FREE shipping/handling to the States, Chucky. LOL!

LOVELY, BTW.
 
Top