• QuadraphonicQuad welcomes you and encourages your participation! Treat all members with respect. Please keep all discussions civil, even when you have a strong opinion on a particular topic.

    Do not offer for free, offer for sale, offer for trade, or request copies or files of copyrighted material - no matter how rare or unavailable to the public they might be. We do not condone the illegal sharing of music. There are many places on the internet where you can participate in such transactions, but QuadraphonicQuad is not one of them. We are here to encourage and support new multichannel releases from those companies that still provide them and as such the distribution of illegal copies of recordings is counter-productive to that effort. Any posts of this sort will be deleted without notification.

    Please try to avoid discussions that pit one format against another. Hint for new users: make liberal use of the search facilities here at QuadraphonicQuad. Our message base is an incredibly rich resource of detailed information on virtually all topics pertaining to surround-sound. You will be surprised at what you can find with a little digging!

What cartridge works for you in CD-4 Mode...

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

bigbillquad

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
QQ Supporter
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,322
Location
New Zealand . Waitakere
Hi. All

I thought I would resurrect this topic.
I have in my arsenal of cartridges for CD-4 play back.

1. Audio Technica ATN-440MLb
2. Audio Technica ATN-15s
3. Technics 250c & 270c
4. Victor MD-1016
5. Grace Z-1

I have a Denon DP-47F Auto Turntable I have been using I use a Victor CD4-50 Demodulator I have on the Denon at the moment a Denon MC DL-80 cartridge which I normally use for Stereo LP`s but I thought I`ll leave it on and see if it would play a CD-4 LP set it up and to be hold it worked.
I think my CD4-50 Demod. is very tolerant not like my 4DD-5 unit is very picky.
So what works for you...
 
Last edited:

Circular Vibes

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
Since 2002/2003
Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Messages
1,573
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I have the JVC 4MD-20X (2 NOS bought on ePay), 4MD-5X, Panasonic EPC-451CII, EPC-451-C4, EPC-96SS and the AT-440mlb. I like the strain gauge carts but my demogitators are noisy or defunct now. I tried the JVC carts and had bad luck. Will have to set them up again some day and try with current set up. I have had the best luck with the AT440mlb and the built in demogitators in my JVC 4VR-5456 and Sansui QRX-7001. It was plug and pray from the get go. Adjustments simply made it better where the previous tries were extremely finicky. I found most of my problems went away when I bought new genuine Technics RCA cables from KAB USA. Even the original cables on a Technics table and the "audiophile" grade upgraded cables on my SL-1200 were crap. The AT440mlb is headache free CD4 for me. Even after 3 + years I can throw on reportedly difficult discs like Cat Stevens Greatest Hits and get splat free 4 channel sound. I still have difficulty with Barry Manilow II but feel that may just never be OK. I have the AoQ transfer and it still has issues, though his is better than mine neither is perfect. The 8 track seems to have a radically different mix too, so I think the CD4 may not even be encoded right. That is not a fault of the cartridge or demogitator in my mind. I have heard a couple people claim the AT440mlb can't do CD4 right because it lacks the Shibata tip. I'd like to hear the reasons why and where the audible differences are. I can not afford the higher end genuine AT CD4 carts or the genuine replacement styli so can not compare them. I like the microline tip for almost all my over 3000 microgroove records. I'd be using the strain gauge carts too if the demogitators get restored. At least the styli are more affordable even with NOS ones from Japan if I have a little patience waiting for the right auction to come up. I've been stung twice with used styli, one with no diamond at all.
 

sjcorne

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
2,632
Location
Southern NY
JVC 4MD-20x and Panasonic SE-405 demodulator. Both NOS, purchased about five years ago - still working great. I've also got an EPC-451C and a Shure M24H.

I actually just picked up an AT440MLb specifically for matrix playback. My Ortofon Red tended to produce splatter-like distortion in the rears on the inner groove tracks of some SQ LPs - the new Audio-Technica does not.
 

bigbillquad

1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
QQ Supporter
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,322
Location
New Zealand . Waitakere
Thanks ::::::::::::::::::7(y)
Circular Vibes..
winopener..
sjcorne..

For your input to this subject I now that this subject …. has been thrashed before but with this new software CD-4 decoding on the Mac computer and the possibility of a hardware CD-4 decoder from … involve audio. I think we should explore this subject more with all these new members QQ has acquired.
BBQ....
 

vinylguy4

600 Club - QQ All-Star
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
653
Location
San Diego area
AT20Sla with 4DD-5 demodulator on Pioneer PLX-1000 works fine.
The AT150Sa just does not work well with the same setup. It has the shibata stylus but just doesn't quite do it good enough to be enjoyable.
 

TVB

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
255
Location
Rocky Mountains
I bought a brand new JVC 4dd5 demod and JVC 4md20x from a guy in Canada several years ago (he also had new old stock sealed in the box classic high powered Pioneer silver integrated amps that are highly sought after- but in the $ thousands range). I have since purchased 2 new original stylus's for the 4md2ox at $100 each. I would have bought a couple more, but the price went up and then were unavailable. What's strange is that I could get about 40 plays from each new stylus before I started hearing distortion in one channel. The distortion always sounded like there was dust on the stylus, but cleaning it didn't help. I spent big bucks on a VPI Scout specifically for cd-4 but it really didn't make any appreciable difference. I am presently using a Harmon Kardon Rabco ST-7 with tangent arm for cd-4 and it does work better, but the problem still exists. I was smart enough to immediately record my favorite CD-4 's on Q4 reels while the cart was new and these Q4's are distortion free (including Cat Stevens GH), so I have not really felt a pressing need to find another stylus. I've never had any problem with the 4md20x playing SQ matrix vinyl. I'm always on the lookout for high quality turntables, especially when I can find one with a stylus. Several years ago (I didnt notice at the time) I picked up a table that had an AT 15sa cart installed, but the stylus was wasted. I tried to get an 15sa stylus, but they are in the $200-$300+ range even if they are USED (which I would never risk getting)! I would really like to find a nos stylus for this cart to try it out. Anybody have any experience with the AT15sa cart?
On a side note, I have about 6 copies of Lightfoots "Sundown" in CD4 and have never been able to get a clean CD4 recording from any of them. Thank goodness I was able to get a Q4 copy of Sundown along with several Q8's.
 

J. PUPSTER

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
4,275
Location
CALIFORNIA (CENTRAL)
AT20Sla with 4DD-5 demodulator on Pioneer PLX-1000 works fine.
The AT150Sa just does not work well with the same setup. It has the shibata stylus but just doesn't quite do it good enough to be enjoyable.
Thanks @bigbillquad for starting this thread, and I believe it's also good to note (from you experienced folks here) what carts "don't" work well. I'll be diving into this special realm of Quad wonderland soon and trying out an AT-VM740ML (ML= MicroLine.) My only concern with being a QUAD LP newbie is not having the experience to KNOW what it should sound like when it's working right!
Experience is GOLDEN.
 

4-earredwonder

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
12,412
Thanks @bigbillquad for starting this thread, and I believe it's also good to note (from you experienced folks here) what carts "don't" work well. I'll be diving into this special realm of Quad wonderland soon and trying out an AT-VM740ML (ML= MicroLine.) My only concern with being a QUAD LP newbie is not having the experience to KNOW what it should sound like when it's working right!
Experience is GOLDEN.
Oh, you'll know if it doesn't work. The demodulator light won't light up.......you'll hear all kinds of nasties coming from your speakers and as it reaches the inner grroves you might get that horrible swishing sound. Not to mention some wretchedly poor QUADRADISC pressings of the era.

I'm sure if Chucky finally releases a CD~4 demodulator it will be THE ONE to consider. I have one somewhere and don't even know [or frankly care] if it works anymore but from what I've read over the years at QQ regarding CD~4 demodulators .... MOST probably NOT.
 

J. PUPSTER

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
4,275
Location
CALIFORNIA (CENTRAL)
Oh, you'll know if it doesn't work. The demodulator light won't light up.......you'll hear all kinds of nasties coming from your speakers and as it reaches the inner grroves you might get that horrible swishing sound. Not to mention some wretchedly poor QUADRADISC pressings of the era.

I'm sure if Chucky finally releases a CD~4 demodulator it will be THE ONE to consider. I have one somewhere and don't even know [or frankly care] if it works anymore but from what I've read over the years at QQ regarding CD~4 demodulators .... MOST probably NOT.
If there are major sonic issues, I'll more than likely hear it, but I'm sure there's also plenty of more subtle differences coming from things like a carts' frequency response, styli shape/condition and getting the Vertical Tracking Angle (VTA) just right, that only experience can teach you.
 

4-earredwonder

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
12,412
If there are major sonic issues, I'll more than likely hear it, but I'm sure there's also plenty of more subtle differences coming from things like a carts' frequency response, styli shape/condition and getting the Vertical Tracking Angle (VTA) just right, that only experience can teach you.
BTW, do you have any QUADRADISCS, yet, JP?
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
23,245
Location
London, England
If there are major sonic issues, I'll more than likely hear it, but I'm sure there's also plenty of more subtle differences coming from things like a carts' frequency response, styli shape/condition and getting the Vertical Tracking Angle (VTA) just right, that only experience can teach you.
my mistake was i tried to run (CD-4) before i could walk (matrix Quad) or even crawl (straight stereo).. i'm far from expert but fwiw my twopennuth is getting stereo playback the best you can first is where you want to be in order to get good Quad sound down the line.

all the accoutrements like a protractor, spirit level, some little digital scales to check tracking force etc are very useful.. i'd get some Stereo test discs (i like Len Gregory's HiFi News) and record in your results and check them out on the computer, looking for channel imbalances, distortion and so on and make adjustments to tracking force, antiskate, azimuth and re-record the same test tones in and see if any of the setup changes you did made any improvements.

fine tuning makes a real difference and once you get into CD-4 all that tweaking will help you a lot. for CD-4 you'll also want discs clean as you can get (an RCMs a good investment) and LPs in great shape. other things with CD-4 that help are those unique little 7-inch adjustment/setup discs (just about any one of them should be alright, with a couple of exceptions they're all pretty similar), an easy to setup demodulator is a boon (the Marantz i got this year is child's play, i only wish i'd got it before the JVC & Grundig.. oh well 3rd time lucky!) and there's that ever present CD-4 question mark/ juggling act between separation and distortion that only you can judge if you'd rather sacrifice a bit of separation for a cleaner sound.

the "trouble" (its a good problem!) is while i was busy dicking around with old Quad records and tapes Vocalion started doing their thing and they haven't looked back to the point now where i'm only really keeping my hand in with the old Quads for the labels they haven't covered so far (WEA, Motown, Avco) but that's no reason not to have a Pupster playaround! Quad LPs have been at times the most annoying yet more often the most rewarding hobby ever! if i can ever be of any help, PM anytime! have fun! good luck! keep woofing!! 🐶 🥰✌
 

4-earredwonder

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
12,412
my mistake was i tried to run (CD-4) before i could walk (matrix Quad) or even crawl (straight stereo).. i'm far from expert but fwiw my twopennuth is getting stereo playback the best you can first is where you want to be in order to get good Quad sound down the line.

all the accoutrements like a protractor, spirit level, some little digital scales to check tracking force etc are very useful.. i'd get some Stereo test discs (i like Len Gregory's HiFi News) and record in your results and check them out on the computer, looking for channel imbalances, distortion and so on and make adjustments to tracking force, antiskate, azimuth and re-record the same test tones in and see if any of the setup changes you did made any improvements.

fine tuning makes a real difference and once you get into CD-4 all that tweaking will help you a lot. for CD-4 you'll also want discs clean as you can get (an RCMs a good investment) and LPs in great shape. other things with CD-4 that help are those unique little 7-inch adjustment/setup discs (just about any one of them should be alright, with a couple of exceptions they're all pretty similar), an easy to setup demodulator is a boon (the Marantz i got this year is child's play, i only wish i'd got it before the JVC & Grundig.. oh well 3rd time lucky!) and there's that ever present CD-4 question mark/ juggling act between separation and distortion that only you can judge if you'd rather sacrifice a bit of separation for a cleaner sound.

the "trouble" (its a good problem!) is while i was busy dicking around with old Quad records and tapes Vocalion started doing their thing and they haven't looked back to the point now where i'm only really keeping my hand in with the old Quads for the labels they haven't covered so far (WEA, Motown, Avco) but that's no reason not to have a Pupster playaround! Quad LPs have been at times the most annoying yet more often the most rewarding hobby ever! if i can ever be of any help, PM anytime! have fun! good luck! keep woofing!! 🐶 🥰✌
Hopefully, Adam, your patented hot pink Fairy Liquid will find its way to the Pupster's abode in Central Cali for a squeaky clean rub a dub dub of his CD~4/Matrix vinyl discs.

BTW, is it effective for pots and pans?


See the source image
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
23,245
Location
London, England
Hopefully, Adam, your patented hot pink Fairy Liquid will find its way to the Pupster's abode in Central Cali for a squeaky clean rub a dub dub of his CD~4/Matrix vinyl discs.

BTW, is it effective for pots and pans?


See the source image
haha.. 🤣 i've abandoned handwashing with Fairy and use Pro-Ject's record cleaning machine and proprietary fluid! 💫

hmm.. 🤔 i don't know, i use the dishwasher for pots and pans! 🤩
 

fredblue

2K Club - QQ Super Nova
QQ Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
23,245
Location
London, England
JVC 4MD-20x and Panasonic SE-405 demodulator. Both NOS, purchased about five years ago - still working great. I've also got an EPC-451C and a Shure M24H.

I actually just picked up an AT440MLb specifically for matrix playback. My Ortofon Red tended to produce splatter-like distortion in the rears on the inner groove tracks of some SQ LPs - the new Audio-Technica does not.
have you tried the AT440 on any CD-4 stuff yet? 🧐 😋
 
2
Top