Ranasakawa
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I honestly believe Jakko Jakszyk should stick to playing guitar and forget surround mixing
Moody Blues - In Search Of The Lost Chord (50th Anniversary set with 5.1 "manipulation" by Jakko Jakszyk).
- Thread starter fredblue
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Mine's been returned to Amazon before opening, thanks to all for the reviews. I already have the LP and the 2006 CD version.
With all the returns that seem to be going on, I wonder if we will see any drastic price drops in the near future.
They will be called "warehouse" specials and they will classified as "like new" condition on amazon..but the bad news is they will still sound the same
I have two thoughts in regard to your question. First off, it appears that the stereo mix is likely to be very popular amongst Moody fans. Since the majority of buyers are collectors and Moody fans listening in stereo, returns by and large become a nonissue for most.
Second, the number of QQers returning the box set is barely a cipher to the bean counters at Amazon.
To overstate the obvious, Amazon is an economic behemoth receiving huge discounts from suppliers based on impossibly large bulk orders.
They will continue to try to entice you to spend your money, just as they will continue to make strong efforts to beat out their competitors(e.g., retail giants like Walmart - I don’t think Jeff Bezos has ever lost a nanosecond of sleep over companies the size of Bullmoose).
I agree with all you say. But this release has more going against it than most.
A decent stereo version of this album has already been released. It would be different if the stereo SACD didn't exist. In fairness to your point however, it is OOP. And even though QQ represents a small niche, it may well show up as a bigger ripple compared to a well executed release. Certainly more returns than normal. Add in the abnormally large number of deluxe/surround/hi res releases on the horizon, all fighting for the same consumer dollar. And ultimately, even for Amazon, it still comes down to supply and demand. If these end up sitting in a warehouse in larger quantities than expected, the price will drop.
I guess well see around Christmas time what they are going for.
I agree it was likely a mistake to green-light this release, but Universal has put out some great surround stuff this year. Styx's The Mission, Guns 'n' Roses, and Imagine are great releases.
SW uses a program called "Penteo" to upmix when necessary on his surround projects.
I hear what you’re saying. I think retailers will ultimately chalk it up to a bad product, an issue that turns up ever now and then in any retail business. So long as it stays a novelty in the product category we should be good. At the same time, it sends a clear message to companies considering preparing surround product for future release.
Amazon will have to lower the present price...because now that it's not a preorder anymore other merchants already are cheaper than amazon and if amazon has the usual robust supply of this item...plus some returns...they will need to reduce their inventory.....check this out
Well, you have to look at it like this. The number of humans purchasing CD/DVD/BluRay type releases gets smaller every month. The general population could give two shits about this release, a 50 year old dinosaur that most folks that would be interested in already have in their collection. The "try" at a 5.1 mix (I still haven't heard it) may have just been a token effort so that they could put on the box (includes 5.1 mix), who knows. The fact that it disappoints doesn't really matter to those bean counters, it's just another notch on the sales email.
As for massive returns, nah. They won't even be noticed. And really, our bitching and moaning won't be noticed either, other than an outside chance of "Well, if they don't like what we do, fuck them, we won't do anything next time."
It just makes all of the REAL great 5.1 releases more special than ever. This is a great example of the QQ community coming together and reacting to a release in a way that will save members money that they can use on the good stuff.
Think back 15 years, to the Silverline shit, and remember - it's happened before, and it will happen again. Just be glad we have the official 'QQ EARLY WARNING SYSTEM' that we can invoke, and have invoked here.
As for massive returns, nah. They won't even be noticed. And really, our bitching and moaning won't be noticed either, other than an outside chance of "Well, if they don't like what we do, fuck them, we won't do anything next time."
It just makes all of the REAL great 5.1 releases more special than ever. This is a great example of the QQ community coming together and reacting to a release in a way that will save members money that they can use on the good stuff.
Think back 15 years, to the Silverline shit, and remember - it's happened before, and it will happen again. Just be glad we have the official 'QQ EARLY WARNING SYSTEM' that we can invoke, and have invoked here.
I havn't heard this yet, but it sounds like I’ll be adding Jakko to my list of “not preorder worthy” surround mixers (his Bill Bruford mixes were also a bit of a mess). (Rich Chycki is also on that list...sorry if I misspelled his name)
The good thing is we have a lot of surround mixes and other hi rez titles which I never thought we would get...the Simon & Garfunkel Stereo title was excellent and so was the Hendrix stereo..and 2 more Hendrix titles on the way..the White Album...Imagine...and how about Guns N Roses....nobody saw that one coming and with ES at the controls...geeze...and all the Dutton titles...what a year this has been...and I think the start of 2019 will be Doobie time..all alone in the spotlight...it's a great time in our hobby...even if some don't measure up to our expectations...so what...so many good things happened this year...The Band...Bitches Brew...Fleetwood Mac...a year to remember for me
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Yep! And, while I do hesitate to complain about releases.....(I have nearly 10,000 posts.....and I bet you will find less than a handful where I complain) - I am willing to be an early adopter of these things....because I enjoy it. So, hopefully, my comments do help others who truly want to avoid these sort of purchases. Based on my over full closet, I must not get too hung up on buying stuff that ends up collecting dust.
well said
Has anyone compared the new stereo mix with the MoFi version? I'd be interested in an A / B if so. . . .
jefe1
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Well I waited too long and my copy has already shipped from amazonuk. But I did file a complaint and request for refund. I doubt anyone read or cares about my complaint about the alleged 5.1 remix.
When it arrives I'm supposed to ship it back and they'll pay for the return postage. What a hassle.
If there had been true disclosure about how the remix was done that would be one thing.
I can synthesize from a stereo version too without paying $50 for someone else to do it.
I think the only manipulation in the remix is we got a hand job and not a very good one at that.
When it arrives I'm supposed to ship it back and they'll pay for the return postage. What a hassle.
If there had been true disclosure about how the remix was done that would be one thing.
I can synthesize from a stereo version too without paying $50 for someone else to do it.
I think the only manipulation in the remix is we got a hand job and not a very good one at that.
Agree 100 %.
Anyone that says anything like that has probably never done any mixing before.
Jakko is a good mixing engineer IMHO but a lot of the shortcomings of some of these mixes of his fall beyond his control.
For example I hate the Bruford 5.1 DVDs but a lot of that has to do with the awful Dolby Digital encoding. I’m sure if I heard those remixes in either DTS or lossless files I would probably like them more.
Also he’s had to overcome some serious technical limitations with the Jethro Tull live multi tracks and many people seem to like those mixes.
I don’t really know what happened with “Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression”. It might have been his fault or maybe something screwy happened afterwards during the mastering stage.
Jakko is definitely not the greatest mixing engineer but he’s far from awful. “THRAK” is amazing, and “Fish Out Of Water”, “Trilogy”, and (most of ) “Brain Salad Surgery” are all very good too IMHO.
Plus a newer album like “A Scarcity of Miracles” is also exquisite in surround sound too.
Now yes some of his mixing is a little rough around the edges (especially when you compare to some of the original stereo mixes) and some might prefer another mixing engineer tackle some of these albums instead of Jakko but I’m hard pressed to think of another mixing engineer who would take these albums on, especially the specialty Yes solo records.
In the case of “In Search of the Lost Chord” it sounds like the limitations of the multitrack tapes are a very real issue with this album. From what I have heard it really does sound like the multitrack tapes are mostly two tracks of group (instruments) and two tracks of vocals so what can you really do with that from a surround sound perspective?
Now I wish they had been more forthcoming about the mix cause it did sound like this was a brand new mix from the multi tracks which it mostly is except that the multi tracks themselves do not make for an immersive experience.
Also, I’ve heard people complain about the difference in fidelity between songs. The new mixes definitely sound a lot cleaner to my ears. This album has always been the worst sounding of the classic 7 IMHO. I always described the original mix as very murky and unclear so it was cool to hear some more fidelity and clarity in these newer mixes.
This is far from the best surround mix I have ever heard but it’s also not the worst either (I can listen to this more than Mansun for example)
A poll is forthcoming and I’m planning on a ‘7’ right now
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I’m just wondering... as someone in the audio field, do you think a mixer should turn down an offer to do a surround mix if they think the final product will be worse than a good upmix? (I’m just thinking if I was a professional mixer I would want to protect my reputation)... maybe they made him an offer he couldn’t refuse, lol? I imagine it was not enjoyable to do this mix (doing a surround mix from high quality multitracks is so much fun, but this was probably torture to mix)Anyone that says anything like that has probably never done any mixing before.
Jakko is a good mixing engineer IMHO but a lot of the shortcomings of some of these mixes of his fall beyond his control.
For example I hate the Bruford 5.1 DVDs but a lot of that has to do with the awful Dolby Digital encoding. I’m sure if I heard those remixes in either DTS or lossless files I would probably like them more.
Also he’s had to overcome some serious technical limitations with the Jethro Tull live multi tracks and many people seem to like those mixes.
I don’t really know what happened with “Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression”. It might have been his fault or maybe something screwy happened afterwards during the mastering stage.
Jakko is definitely not the greatest mixing engineer but he’s far from awful. “THRAK” is amazing, and “Fish Out Of Water”, “Trilogy”, and (most of ) “Brain Salad Surgery” are all very good too IMHO.
Plus a newer album like “A Scarcity of Miracles” is also exquisite in surround sound too.
Now yes some of his mixing is a little rough around the edges (especially when you compare to some of the original stereo mixes) and some might prefer another mixing engineer tackle some of these albums instead of Jakko but I’m hard pressed to think of another mixing engineer who would take these albums on, especially the specialty Yes solo records.
In the case of “In Search of the Lost Chord” it sounds like the limitations of the multitrack tapes are a very real issue with this album. From what I have heard it really does sound like the multitrack tapes are mostly two tracks of group (instruments) and two tracks of vocals so what can you really do with that from a surround sound perspective?
Now I wish they had been more forthcoming about the mix cause it did sound like this was a brand new mix from the multi tracks which it mostly is except that the multi tracks themselves do not make for an immersive experience.
Also, I’ve heard people complain about the difference in fidelity between songs. The new mixes definitely sound a lot cleaner to my ears. This album has always been the worst sounding of the classic 7 IMHO. I always described the original mix as very murky and unclear so it was cool to hear some more fidelity and clarity in these newer mixes.
This is far from the best surround mix I have ever heard but it’s also not the worst either (I can listen to this more than Manson for example)
A poll is forthcoming and I’m planning on a ‘7’ right now
Well Ryan...if anybody knows the limitations of this album....it's you...and a lot of us agree that the source material is at fault...my question to you would be...was it worth it to release this as a surround mix...someone that is intimately familiar with this album can notice the small refinements...but I'm not sure that is the majority of fans...the downside is for future Moody releases and to Jakko himself...people will be skeptical about both...
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