JediJoker
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
A matrix encode can't exist without a discrete source from which to encode it. No one mixes directly into an encoder.
Yes CBS did using a position encoder, with a discrete module to tap off a discrete version. The two versions were done at the same time. Early encodes would of been done from the discrete master.A matrix encode can't exist without a discrete source from which to encode it. No one mixes directly into an encoder.
Not correct, in the case of Columbia/Epic. They were done at the same time (in parallel), the same mix one encoded and one discrete.That's correct.
What does that have to do with what I just said? I'm not familiar with that Q8 but I never said that discrete mixes were made from SQ. They were mixed, while being monitored through an SQ full logic decoder, resulting in an SQ encoded version and a discrete version of the exact same mix.The only instance of that I can think of is the Isley Brothers' Live It Up, for reasons unknown the Q8 tape appears to use a matrix decode of the quad mix instead of the discrete version.
Not correct, in the case of Columbia/Epic. They were done at the same time (in parallel), the same mix one encoded and one discrete.
What does that have to do with what I just said? I'm not familiar with that Q8 but I never said that discrete mixes were made from SQ. They were mixed, while being monitored through an SQ full logic decoder, resulting in an SQ encoded version and a discrete version of the exact same mix.
There was a tendency to shortcut the process in one of these ways:
- Make a Q8 mix and then run it through an SQ 4-corners encoder for the LP.
- Make an SQ mix and then decode it for the Q8 tape.
- Make an SQ mix and use it for the stereo LP.
OK, I was confused about what you were talking about. Didn't that happen with one version of "Dark Side Of The Moon" as well? That was not a normal occurrence, nor common practice!@MidiMagic said the following, you quoted the point in bold, and I gave an example of it:
OK, I was confused about what you were talking about. Didn't that happen with one version of "Dark Side Of The Moon" as well? That was not a normal occurrence, nor common practice!
Companies paid for 2 different quad mixes.?
I always assumed the matrixes versions were sourced from the discrete quad mix.
A matrix encode can't exist without a discrete source from which to encode it. No one mixes directly into an encoder.
That's exactly what CBS did, and Sigma Sound on the PIR quad mixes in Philadelphia. They ran two separate signal chains from the mixing board during the session - one 4-channel output directly into a 4-channel 1" reel-to-reel for the discrete master, and another 4-channel output into an SQ encoder that fed a 1/2 inch deck for the SQ-encoded 2 channel master.
There was also an article in an early '70s issue of Billboard about the way that Ed Michel, who produced all the QS quad mixes for all the Impulse! jazz (and a lot of ABC Records) releases with Baker Bigsby, mixed for quad at the Village Recorder in West LA. According to that article, they used two studios simultaneously connected by tie-lines, one set up for creating the discrete 4-channel master and the other set up for creating the QS-encoded 2 channel master. The article suggested that they'd walk between the two studios and listen to how the mix sounded through the two different configurations - I believe the QS room probably had a 4 channel -> QS encoder -> QS decoder -> speakers routing option so they could make sure the way they were mixing discretely would also "pan out" (pun intended) when it played back in QS.
I also think in a lot of cases, the discrete master was actually the afterthought.
Matrix releases were mixed to get the most out of the crappy decoders of the time rather than to make good discrete mixes. That was definitely the case at CBS, and (in my opinion) why the majority of the early Columbia quads can sound weird and disjointed when you hear them discretely.
And for some things, like Santana Lotus I think, there never was a discrete tape created - just the encoded tape.Not correct, in the case of Columbia/Epic. They were done at the same time (in parallel), the same mix one encoded and one discrete.
What does that have to do with what I just said? I'm not familiar with that Q8 but I never said that discrete mixes were made from SQ. They were mixed, while being monitored through an SQ full logic decoder, resulting in an SQ encoded version and a discrete version of the exact same mix.
And for some things, like Santana Lotus I think, there never was a discrete tape created - just the encoded tape.
I don't believe that to be correct. Lotus was released single inventory SQ encoded but the Sony Japan SACD contains virtually only applause in the rear channels. Too discrete to have been extracted from a decode of an encoded mix. I prefer the SQ decode to the discrete as there is a bit more rear channel activity.And for some things, like Santana Lotus I think, there never was a discrete tape created - just the encoded tape.
But weren’t a number of new bonus tracks newly mixed for the Japan SACD?I don't believe that to be correct. Lotus was released single inventory SQ encoded but the Sony Japan SACD contains virtually only applause in the rear channels. Too discrete to have been extracted from a decode of an encoded mix. I prefer the SQ decode to the discrete as there is a bit more rear channel activity.
It's the guitar playing the melody line in the intro. Sounds very empty without it. But yeah, if you've never heard it.I never noticed that one either. It may because I've only listened to the quad version during the last 40 years or so.
It's the guitar playing the melody line in the intro. Sounds very empty without it. But yeah, if you've never heard it.
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