No reply from Universal/Sanctuary UK to the two emails I sent.
Black Sabbath "Paranoid" CD+DVD/DTS Release October 7th 2008
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No reply from Universal/Sanctuary UK to the two emails I sent.
Analogueghost
Well-known Member
I have to admit to being a little bummed about the apparent lack of SACD, but I'm also thrilled to be able to get the quad mixes on a new disc at all. Better DTS than not at all.
Besides, with lots of surround content coming out on standard DVD-V, there's a good chance of everything transitioning over to Blu-ray as the market matures and Blu-ray gains a larger market share. Just sayin'
Besides, with lots of surround content coming out on standard DVD-V, there's a good chance of everything transitioning over to Blu-ray as the market matures and Blu-ray gains a larger market share. Just sayin'
I got a notice this morning that my order has shipped from Amazon UK. I went to the site to confirm format and it only says [CD+DVD]. I expect it will be DTS, but there is no information on the site.
The site also says it won't be officially available until March 30th; so maybe there will be more information then.
The site also says it won't be officially available until March 30th; so maybe there will be more information then.
From Amazon UK as of today:
Paranoid is expanded to a triple-disc containing the extremely rare 1974 Quadrophonic mix of the album. The album also includes deluxe digipak gatefold packaging with expanded booklets containing rare and previously unseen photographs, comprehensive sleeve-notes telling the story behind each album and include images of rare single covers and memorabilia from the period. Paranoid is the first release in a set of Black Sabbath deluxe expanded editions. Each remastered album includes an additional disc of previously unheard outtakes, demos and instrumental tracks taken from the original studio sessions.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Paranoid-Bl...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1238263600&sr=1-1
Hopefully DTS at the higher bit rates if nothing else. At least the record companies or someone is paying attention to the fact that many people want these Quadraphonic mixes re-released. But for some reason changed the format on us from lossless to lossy. If they were truly listening to us they would give us a lossless format say DVD-Audio, SACD or even – at this point – unaffordable Blu-Ray. But at least they’re giving us the Quadraphonic mixes, hopefully without a center channel or sub – unless you can just shut those off for the original Quadaphonic mix. Does this mean were to get more multi-channel Black Sabbath mixes with the other sets that are supposed to be coming?
I wonder if the discs that were purported to be SACD that were being sold on eBay last fall were in fact SACD?
Paranoid is expanded to a triple-disc containing the extremely rare 1974 Quadrophonic mix of the album. The album also includes deluxe digipak gatefold packaging with expanded booklets containing rare and previously unseen photographs, comprehensive sleeve-notes telling the story behind each album and include images of rare single covers and memorabilia from the period. Paranoid is the first release in a set of Black Sabbath deluxe expanded editions. Each remastered album includes an additional disc of previously unheard outtakes, demos and instrumental tracks taken from the original studio sessions.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Paranoid-Bl...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1238263600&sr=1-1
Hopefully DTS at the higher bit rates if nothing else. At least the record companies or someone is paying attention to the fact that many people want these Quadraphonic mixes re-released. But for some reason changed the format on us from lossless to lossy. If they were truly listening to us they would give us a lossless format say DVD-Audio, SACD or even – at this point – unaffordable Blu-Ray. But at least they’re giving us the Quadraphonic mixes, hopefully without a center channel or sub – unless you can just shut those off for the original Quadaphonic mix. Does this mean were to get more multi-channel Black Sabbath mixes with the other sets that are supposed to be coming?
I wonder if the discs that were purported to be SACD that were being sold on eBay last fall were in fact SACD?
I wonder how many people will get paranoid trying to get the audio 5.1 setting. You will know why when you will try it !!!! Nice to hear a real early 70' quadraphonic mix, I suppose done manually !! Well 40 minutes is too short too. Alas NO sacd
Hi All,
I'm new to this forum but I've greatly enjoyed reading so many posts on here on one of my dearest subjects - wonderful Multi-Channel audio, of course!
Having got the Deluxe set of Paranoid this morning, I posted this review on Amazon UK earlier today. It is still pending so will doubtless go up on there shortly. Meantime, here's my thoughts, purely from a Multi-Channel p.o.v...
"After all the waiting.. and waiting... and the promise of a multi-channel SACD, for me the long delay just wasn't worth it. So what have we finally got? A DTS Surround DVD-Video (in lossy bog-standard DTS, not a high-resolution DVD-AUDIO!!).. what was the point!? It's nice to have an official release of the quad mix and the DVD is in 5.1 but the sound is more often than not a muddy, muddled, hissy mess! Only every now and again does the sound quality rise above mediocrity - "Iron Man" has some discernible audio highlights but "Paranoid" for example is a splashy indistinct wall of compressed crap. The tape hiss throughout most of "Hand of Doom" is louder than the music a lot of the time! Who transferred the original quad tapes? Did they do any restoration or remastering work on them at all or did they just put them through a decoder and whack them straight onto a DVD?!? What are the record co. playing at? After the "ELP Brain Salad Surgery" debacle, where the SACD was described as an "STS 5.1" disc, here we go again.. this time round, the DVD is described as a "DVD Audio 5.1 STS/2.0 LPCM Stereo". What the hell is STS!? Nobody else in the Multi-Channel Audio realm that I am aware of uses this terminology but Sanctuary Records! Also, is it a cock up of the DVD's authoring house to author the disc in regular DTS rather than 96/24 DTS? Or is it just because nothing was done to the PQ of the quad tapes, so a decision was taken not to bother presenting them in any advanced-resolution sound format!? If they were going to go down the route of a DVD-Video, why not put some genuine video content in as a decent bonus, or even lyrics to accompany every song might be a nice addition!? Or utilize all that extra available space on the DVD from not having high-resolution audio by having an interview track with the band or something, or save on it being a 3-disc set by putting the instrumentals from CD3 onto the DVD as well!? Really anything novel or inventive with some thought put into it would have been better!? But NO!! Instead we get a load of old record sleeves, etc. scattered all over the place to make some amatuerish looking slideshow while the quad mix of the album plays!? More so from a Surround-sound point of view, but actually in all respects, I'm VERY disappointed by the finished product on disc 2. As far as the rest of the package goes, I'll check that all out when I've got more time. I just wanted to express my disappointment on the quad mix presentation on disc 2 right away, as I know this is an aspect of this new Deluxe Edition that a lot of fans, not only of Black Sabbath but of multi-channel audio in general, have been looking forward to for a long time."
As you can see, from a multi-channel p.o.v., I'm not happy with this set - at all..I just had to let my massive disappointment flow as soon as I cracked it open and gave it a spin.. so apologies if it comes across as something of a rant!! Has anybody else received their copy yet? Cheers!
I'm new to this forum but I've greatly enjoyed reading so many posts on here on one of my dearest subjects - wonderful Multi-Channel audio, of course!
Having got the Deluxe set of Paranoid this morning, I posted this review on Amazon UK earlier today. It is still pending so will doubtless go up on there shortly. Meantime, here's my thoughts, purely from a Multi-Channel p.o.v...
"After all the waiting.. and waiting... and the promise of a multi-channel SACD, for me the long delay just wasn't worth it. So what have we finally got? A DTS Surround DVD-Video (in lossy bog-standard DTS, not a high-resolution DVD-AUDIO!!).. what was the point!? It's nice to have an official release of the quad mix and the DVD is in 5.1 but the sound is more often than not a muddy, muddled, hissy mess! Only every now and again does the sound quality rise above mediocrity - "Iron Man" has some discernible audio highlights but "Paranoid" for example is a splashy indistinct wall of compressed crap. The tape hiss throughout most of "Hand of Doom" is louder than the music a lot of the time! Who transferred the original quad tapes? Did they do any restoration or remastering work on them at all or did they just put them through a decoder and whack them straight onto a DVD?!? What are the record co. playing at? After the "ELP Brain Salad Surgery" debacle, where the SACD was described as an "STS 5.1" disc, here we go again.. this time round, the DVD is described as a "DVD Audio 5.1 STS/2.0 LPCM Stereo". What the hell is STS!? Nobody else in the Multi-Channel Audio realm that I am aware of uses this terminology but Sanctuary Records! Also, is it a cock up of the DVD's authoring house to author the disc in regular DTS rather than 96/24 DTS? Or is it just because nothing was done to the PQ of the quad tapes, so a decision was taken not to bother presenting them in any advanced-resolution sound format!? If they were going to go down the route of a DVD-Video, why not put some genuine video content in as a decent bonus, or even lyrics to accompany every song might be a nice addition!? Or utilize all that extra available space on the DVD from not having high-resolution audio by having an interview track with the band or something, or save on it being a 3-disc set by putting the instrumentals from CD3 onto the DVD as well!? Really anything novel or inventive with some thought put into it would have been better!? But NO!! Instead we get a load of old record sleeves, etc. scattered all over the place to make some amatuerish looking slideshow while the quad mix of the album plays!? More so from a Surround-sound point of view, but actually in all respects, I'm VERY disappointed by the finished product on disc 2. As far as the rest of the package goes, I'll check that all out when I've got more time. I just wanted to express my disappointment on the quad mix presentation on disc 2 right away, as I know this is an aspect of this new Deluxe Edition that a lot of fans, not only of Black Sabbath but of multi-channel audio in general, have been looking forward to for a long time."
As you can see, from a multi-channel p.o.v., I'm not happy with this set - at all..I just had to let my massive disappointment flow as soon as I cracked it open and gave it a spin.. so apologies if it comes across as something of a rant!! Has anybody else received their copy yet? Cheers!
kap'n krunch
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Just got an email from Amazon.co.uk that it has shipped ...to my old work address, 85 kms from home...
I'll see when I get it...
I'll see when I get it...
Siberian29
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2009
- Messages
- 18
Thanks for the review fredblue. Major disappointment on the lack of high resolution audio being present as I was still holding onto what little bit of hope I had for it. I kinda wish I didn't have this on its way to the states right now but I guess it will be fun to compare to the Quad 8 DVD-A transfer I burned. Sad thing is it sounds like a homemade DVD-A transfer from a Quad 8 is going to sound better than a "professional" DTS transfer from the master tapes.
kap'n krunch
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Well, I'm almost positive that in the end, Bob Romano's (Romanotrax) transfer will sound better than the cd dts mess seems to be.
His conversions are always top notch.
His and Audio Spectrum's conversions are the best.
you're welcome, Siberian29! Like I said it probably comes across as more of a tirade than a review but I was so disappointed I just had to let it all out! I also have the quad dvd-a and will do a comparison tonight.
My copy shipped from CD-Wow today...so I should be able to comment early next week.
Well I got my copy from Amazon UK yesterday, and I have to agree with fredblue, the Quad mix quality is ABYSMAL, far worse than an old Q4 transfer I have. It looks like an 50th generation tape was used as source noise is particularly noticeable in the rear channels where it actually sounds like an LP transfer, pops ticks and other odd noises are very apparent (Iron Man particularly). Also there appears to be a lot of what I would call "Noise Gating" going on, again very noticeable. They also derived a centre and sub from the original mix, but removing them does not affect anything.
I would stay away from this copy and find an alternative (Romanotrax LP transfer I recommend), you WILL be disappointed, a wasted opportunity !
Malcolm
I would stay away from this copy and find an alternative (Romanotrax LP transfer I recommend), you WILL be disappointed, a wasted opportunity !
Malcolm
This arrived today can you believe first ordered 1st of september last year !!!
Have to agree with the comments above I like the old school QUAD mix but boy oh boy where have those tapes been stored ?
Full marks for relesing this but removal of marks for Non DVDA track plenty of room for that. using Dolby Stereo rather than LPCM as stated in the booklet, and not sourcing better quality tapes.
Have to agree with the comments above I like the old school QUAD mix but boy oh boy where have those tapes been stored ?
Full marks for relesing this but removal of marks for Non DVDA track plenty of room for that. using Dolby Stereo rather than LPCM as stated in the booklet, and not sourcing better quality tapes.
I'm in complete despair by reading your feedback... I was so hoping to get a decent quad mix transfer. I just can't believe the wasted opportunity. First they announced a SACD... then DTS... in the end it's not full bitrate and it's obviously a crap job. This whole deluxe series seems to be there ONLY for cashing in. Completely disgusted 
I’m as disappointed as everyone else is about not having high Rez discs and – from what I’ve read here – badly sourced Quadraphonic tapes. Maybe that’s why it changed from SACD. Not even 24 bit / 96 kHz DTS. Stuff mixed in the center/sub channels from a Quad Master.
Nevertheless!
I put my order in for this title yesterday from Amazon UK to the U.S. for $25 dollars to support the fact that someone finally has officially re-released the original Quadraphonic mix. If enough people buy this title, well I’m not sure it’ll prove support for multi-channel, but it would be good if it did. Not too many official re-releases in 2009 of 1970's Quadraphonic material that I know about...
Supposedly the whole catalog of Black Sabbath is to be re-released as "expanded editions." Will these also come with multi-channel mixes?
Nevertheless!
I put my order in for this title yesterday from Amazon UK to the U.S. for $25 dollars to support the fact that someone finally has officially re-released the original Quadraphonic mix. If enough people buy this title, well I’m not sure it’ll prove support for multi-channel, but it would be good if it did. Not too many official re-releases in 2009 of 1970's Quadraphonic material that I know about...
Supposedly the whole catalog of Black Sabbath is to be re-released as "expanded editions." Will these also come with multi-channel mixes?
"Supposedly the whole catalog of Black Sabbath is to be re-released as "expanded editions." Will these also come with multi-channel mixes?"
highly unlikely, regrettably. Paranoid was the only album mixed into quad back in '74 that was physically released, on 3 formats to boot! (CD-4, DQR and Q8). i'd heard Sabotage was also mixed in quad and prepared for Q8 release but never actually came out, can anyone verify this?
you know, i don't know whether to be huffed or pleased that a good few people now agree with me that this "deluxe" release, from a surround sound perspective at the very least, is an utterly disgraceful waste of space! i was so looking forward to it and the potential was enormous. to finally have an album as important, as seminal a work, as say Machine Head, Brain Salad Surgery, Dark Side of the Moon, all treated back in the dvd-a/sacd heyday (not SO long ago! what on earth has happened in the interim!?) with wonderful professional treatment of the original master tapes into largely fantastic surround mixes, was something i was so excited about ever since a new sacd multi channel transfer of the quad mix was announced and to hear this "audio dvd sts 5.1" tripe... unforgivable!
i'm almost thinking to personally swing by Sanctuary Records' offices and arrange a little chat (they are literally 20 mins away from me by tube) before they foist another disaster upon music and especially surround music fans. they need to be shown where they are going wrong, over quality control issues in particular, and perhaps in future they might hire the right people to co-ordinate these deluxe editions for them - personnel who know what they are doing and can produce something worthy of the artists and original album they are handling. material like Paranoid is sacred to a great many people and to release substandard product like this and call it "Deluxe" is, imho, shameful.
highly unlikely, regrettably. Paranoid was the only album mixed into quad back in '74 that was physically released, on 3 formats to boot! (CD-4, DQR and Q8). i'd heard Sabotage was also mixed in quad and prepared for Q8 release but never actually came out, can anyone verify this?
you know, i don't know whether to be huffed or pleased that a good few people now agree with me that this "deluxe" release, from a surround sound perspective at the very least, is an utterly disgraceful waste of space! i was so looking forward to it and the potential was enormous. to finally have an album as important, as seminal a work, as say Machine Head, Brain Salad Surgery, Dark Side of the Moon, all treated back in the dvd-a/sacd heyday (not SO long ago! what on earth has happened in the interim!?) with wonderful professional treatment of the original master tapes into largely fantastic surround mixes, was something i was so excited about ever since a new sacd multi channel transfer of the quad mix was announced and to hear this "audio dvd sts 5.1" tripe... unforgivable!
i'm almost thinking to personally swing by Sanctuary Records' offices and arrange a little chat (they are literally 20 mins away from me by tube) before they foist another disaster upon music and especially surround music fans. they need to be shown where they are going wrong, over quality control issues in particular, and perhaps in future they might hire the right people to co-ordinate these deluxe editions for them - personnel who know what they are doing and can produce something worthy of the artists and original album they are handling. material like Paranoid is sacred to a great many people and to release substandard product like this and call it "Deluxe" is, imho, shameful.
The last Q4 of Paranoid sold for over $400 on eBay. I guess this release will insure that it's value will hold over the years!
Thankfully, the Quad community has the ability to preserve these reels in a true HiRez modern format for future surround fans to appreciate.
What a waste. I usually buy stuff like this, but since I have the reel - why bother?
Thankfully, the Quad community has the ability to preserve these reels in a true HiRez modern format for future surround fans to appreciate.
What a waste. I usually buy stuff like this, but since I have the reel - why bother?
The last Q4 of Paranoid sold for over $400 on eBay. I guess this release will insure that it's value will hold over the years!
Thankfully, the Quad community has the ability to preserve these reels in a true HiRez modern format for future surround fans to appreciate.
What a waste. I usually buy stuff like this, but since I have the reel - why bother?
Excellent point Jon. And you're right, this release by the way people are talking about it will not bring down the price of the Q4 as one would think had the release been properly mastered to begin with.
That's an excellent idea! If you have the ability to clue these guys in, in theory it should be a win-win situation. At the very least perhaps we could get an inside idea as to what the hell they were thinking. Since Sanctuary Records was putting out a DVD type format anyway for this release, why did they not do a DVD-A or at least 24 bit / 96 kHz DTS? I will not buy any future Black Sabbath "expanded editions" if they do not include a decent Multi-channel mix with proper Hi-Rez sound.
Well after all the "GREAT" reviews I guess i will just stick with my CD4 conversion on DVDA.
reviews I guess i will just stick with my CD4 conversion on DVDA.
Same here...depressing, huh? But if Sanctuary was involved--remember their fiasco with Silverline?--not sure any of us should be surprised. I am curious, though, as to who gets credit--er, blame--for the actual mastering of the quad mix.
But the format it's in--SACD, DVD, DTS--seems to me less important--a LOT less important--than the mastering itself. I've got more than a few DTS discs I--and those I've played them for--think sound pretty damn good. While a higher-rez format would offer better sonics still (maybe), the issue here is apparently source AND mastering, and that's an unacceptable double whammy, since either alone that is bad will ruin it.
ED
But the format it's in--SACD, DVD, DTS--seems to me less important--a LOT less important--than the mastering itself. I've got more than a few DTS discs I--and those I've played them for--think sound pretty damn good. While a higher-rez format would offer better sonics still (maybe), the issue here is apparently source AND mastering, and that's an unacceptable double whammy, since either alone that is bad will ruin it.
ED
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