INVOLVE SQ - IS HERE

[Q8]

Haven't tried Dolby Headphone encoded CDs. But the QSound CDs seem to work by providing the Surround Master with additional music cues to steer around the sound field. Very impressive - specially the albums by Roger Waters, Madonna and Sting.

I got the Madonna CD and ran it through the Surround Master. It was awesome. The mix sounds better than a great deal of QS records! The decoding by the surround master seems to follow the Qsound ques. I listened through stereo headphones first and got an idea of the dirtectonality they were going for. It seems to follow it quite well. A lot of rear LR action. Definately will be looking for more Q Sound discs. I wonder how active The Wall Live is or if its just "concert surround". Also according to the qsound site, Kiss Revenge is in Qsound too. Heck, if The Wall Live is good, it will be just about like having another PF quad. If someone has the discs and a surround master, try it out and let me know. I want to try some more things now, like Binaural and Dolby Headphone, Holophonic. I bet all the fake Surrounds + Surround Master = Real Surround

 

[Q8]

I expanded my qsound collection this weekend, got the CDs of Roger Waters Amused To Death and Sting The Soul Cages (got this on chrome tape too as it was only 50 cents). Can't wait to run these through the Surround Master.

 

[bmoura]

I expanded my qsound collection this weekend, got the CDs of Roger Waters Amused To Death and Sting The Soul Cages (got this on chrome tape too as it was only 50 cents). Can't wait to run these through the Surround Master.

Those two do well via the Surround Master. In fact, Chucky says the Roger Waters CD is one of their SM reference discs! And who knows how well the upcoming remastered SACD edition of that album will perform.
Also, be sure to grab the QS encoded download of Synergy's Electronic Realizations on HD Tracks. That one is also a winner via the Surround Master.

 

[workmeistr]

.

 

[workmeistr]

Though I had only my SQ and QS decoders on the Pioneer 949A to compare it to, I am thoroughly impressed by the SM SQ. I inserted a TCC TC-754 Phono Preamp with variable gain and aux. inputs before the SM SQ, allowing me to send both the pre-amp’ed phono and the Sony BDP-S380 Blu-ray/SACD/40 GB hard drive player through the SM SQ with a push of a button. The enhancement the Involve/QS mode creates makes this investment more than just buying the best/only new/warrantied SQ decoder available, it makes your entire analog and digital catalog fresh again.

I've only had two nights to sample the greatness, last night I went from phono SQ: Tomita-Planets; Earth, Wind, and Fire-Spirit; Blood, Sweat, and Tears-Greatest Hits, and Miles kindly ‘ran that voodoo down’ for me -- to digital Involve/QS: Beth Hart-Screamin' for My Supper, Prodigy-The Fat of the Land, and Joe Walsh ‘confessed’ to me.

Since I'm relatively new at the quad game, with admittedly having little to compare the SM SQ against, I'm not the guy to attest to the device’s proper instrument and vocal placement, db’s of separation, etc. Over the years I have heard some really nice set ups that were decades newer technology and a much greater investment than my current system, now with the SM SQ I am completely satisfied with the audio/fidelity experience that my, comparatively modest, set-up has is offering.

The truest compliment I can give the SM SQ is that I can’t wait for the weekend to have more time to explore certain analog and digital material that I haven’t listened to in awhile. I’m making a mental list as to what SQ wax gets to spin in what order, and which of my favorite 320kpbs MP3 files I want to play first.

Bravo, Involve Audio, and thanks for taking on this endeavor and special thanks to Chuck and David for their continued participation in this forum and kindness to the 4.0 community.

(Beth Hart’s Skin MP3 is playing from the hard drive by the Blu-ray player through the SQ/Involve setting on the SM SQ. Note the Left EQ [front channels] spectrum display vs. the Right EQ [rear channels])

 

[ss9001]

I've read posts from chucky over the past few months that there is a basic encoder in plastic box version available, for encode/Involve-QS/SQ.

Is this really available? and how does one order it? I'm getting ready to order this month and if there's something that's not on the website, I'd like to consider it before making the purchase.

Thanks!

 

[workmeistr]

I think there are ordering instructions hidden within: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?17421-Involve-encoder&highlight=involve

Cheers.

 

[Overture]

I've read posts from chucky over the past few months that there is a basic encoder in plastic box version available, for encode/Involve-QS/SQ.

Is this really available? and how does one order it? I'm getting ready to order this month and if there's something that's not on the website, I'd like to consider it before making the purchase.

Thanks!

Hey there.

Long story short, there is a basic plastic version that uses the same case as the Surround Master - it doesn't do SQ encoding however, it does Involve encoding and also QS encoding. It isn't hidden on the website at all, but we can do it as a sale via email and paypal - still full warranty and so on.
If you want to chat about it more, contact me at [email protected]

Cheers
~David.

 

[ss9001]

Hi David
Email sent minutes ago. Looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks for posting!

 

[ss9001]

David & Chuck

One SQ Surround Master ordered yesterday I'm really looking forward to taking it for a spin!
Thanks for your help, emails, info. And I'll be posting impressions in this & resurrect the thread at AVSForum forum. I'm hoping this will give my Sansui & Audionics-Tate II competition

 

[Yucca]

Hello,
Get the Surround Master yesterday, and very impressed with the first results . Sound is much more natural than DPLII I used before. I'll have to recalibrate my system, but it's already very, very nice.
Hope the release date for the Encoder pro version is still planned for july (?). However, it lacks some features, like a remote vol control, xlr connectors (for me), or added delay for rear speakers, but it worths totally the price

 

[QUADradial]

I got mine yesterday as well. I need to do a comparison between my QSD-1 and my 101a. The fact that it's all in one box is...well...awesome.

 

[quadsearcher]

Looking forward to your comparison, Qr. I'm still waiting for a break from unexpected expenses to order one.

-john

 

[ss9001]

I got mine yesterday as well. I need to do a comparison between my QSD-1 and my 101a. The fact that it's all in one box is...well...awesome.

mine is still in transit from Mon., somewhere between LA and me. maybe I'll get it in a few more days.

 

[QUADradial]

OK...this is my review. I'm not a wordsmith, so it will be as short as possible.

My current equipment is a Chris Ready restored Marantz 4400, A Chris Ready restored QSD-1, a Tate 101A that was freshly re-capped by me and a Sony SQD-2010 that was re-capped by me about 10 years ago. The 4 speakers are modern Sony SSF-7000 - they sound reasonably good. I thoroughly calibrated the QSD-1 earlier in the week. In my opinion, everything works as it should and the Tate is smoother than most of the ones that I've heard. The turntable is a Technics SL-1900 with a Trackmaster 8 cartridge, and a SHURE M97XE for comparison. Both are aligned using the Technics alignment tool and the azimuth has been scope checked on the Marantz.

My first test was to hook the Surround Master SQ up into the Tape Monitor 1 loop directly, using the 4-channel output taps on the SM.

I tried some known material (to me) that was "fairly discrete" in the mastering (i.e. - Project 3 stuff). I have Q4s of all of it, so I know where the sounds should end up.

First up - Involve Mode - Enoch Light's Brass Menagerie '73 - QS version - MacArthur Park (DON'T YOU JUDGE ME!)
To my ears, the Surround Master was spot on in duplicating what the QSD-1 would deliver in QS mode. I mean...as near perfect as I could ever hope for. Impressive.

Second up - The QS tracks on the "Quadraphile" release that the late Cai Campbell sent to me all those years ago.
Again...toe-to-toe with the QSD-1 in the normal QS decode mode.

Now...I power down the Surround Master and reboot in SQ mode to try the exact same material from SQ sources.

First up...MacArthur Park. This is where the ride gets bumpy. My first impression was...there something wrong with a cable or maybe the Marantz...because the front channels were down by around 50%. The material that should be in the rear channels is there - and very discrete from the standpoint of rear left and rear right. The rear channel information is being eliminated from the front channels...as well, if not better...than what the Tate would do. However, the same cannot be said about the front channel information leaking back into the rear channels. If something is solo'd in either front left or front right, it's quite prevalent as mono information in both rear channels. I would say...maybe 10db lower in back, but still there. If something is front-center (ie, mono - such as vocals), it's also leaking into the back. When comparing the QS version of the song to the SQ version, the QS version sounds far more accurate to my ears with very little leakage front-to-back.

Second up...Quadraphile. I hate to say this, but same thing. Front channels are much lower than they should be. This is causing quite an image shift. The "electronic footsie" track gets very discrete when only in back, but the front information is, once again, ending up in both rears. This can be confirmed by the scope on the Marantz. Test tones to rear left or rear right make a fairly thin, fairly exact line on the scope. Test tones to the front left or front right produce some kind of weird triangle shape because of the amount of bleed.

So...playing various cuts on various SQ LPs all seem to suffer the same issues. The fronts are too low, the rears are loud when an isolated rear channel solo occurs and front center vocals or left/right instruments bleed quite a bit into the back.

So...now I change the configuration up a bit. I run the Tape 1 output into the SQ Surround Master and feed it into the discrete in of the SQD-2010. From there it goes out to the Marantz Tape 1 input. This allows me to see the VU deflection and adjust the channel levels. Re-running the same test shows the "QS" or Involve mode's levels to be about where they should be. Slightly front dominant, but very well balanced and a very pleasant listening experience. If something is supposed to go in a circle, the levels are all within a couple dBs of each other. No fiddling or adjustment needed. Good to go. However, the SQ mode gets funky again. I found that I have to turn each of the SQD-2010's rear channel volume controls down to around the 1 o'clock position to make it sound "right." I would say that this is about 12db down from max. Doing so makes for a good balance in sound and helps mask (but not eliminate) the front-to-rear bleed issue. At this point it begins to approach the Tate, but not in discreteness. It's floating somewhere between the Lafayette SQ-W and the Tate 101a.

For grins, I hooked up the Tate - just to make sure there's not a problem with my audio chain. Nope...everything decodes well directly from vinyl. All levels are close, but with the inherent Tate artifacts...which aren't bad after the re-cap.

Now, as an aside...the Involve decoder is an excellent value if you don't own a Tate or QSD-1. If you can control the levels, it would be worth owning in lieu of the vintage stuff. It's all in one - and that's terrific. That said, there is one thing I feel should be mentioned, and that is the little magic switch on the QSD-1 called "QS SURROUND SYNTHESIZER." This switch might as well be glued down on my QSD-1 whenever I listen to stereo sources. It's just THAT good. In fact, unless I am listening to matrix-specific recordings, it's all I use. It's all I ever need! Even causal listeners that visit my house will comment about how good my stereo sounds. I gotta tell you...it's THAT magic box. I have yet to hear anything that approaches that listening field. QS is nice - to me on par with DPL-II - but synthesizer is all that and a bag of chips, with a Cadillac Eldorado convertible full of supermodels thrown in. I suppose I would have chosen that bastardized QS matrix scheme if it were up to me. Such is life.

So...in closing...maybe my box isn't quite right? It seems odd that the SQ levels are so low in the front channels when listening to actual music - and the front-to-rear bleed is higher than I would have hoped. I would love to find out because it would be nearly perfect otherwise.

-Tab Patterson

 

[ss9001]

Hmm

I don't have the QSD-1; I have a step-down in the QRX9001. I bought it new in '79 and had it restored twice, the 2nd time by Chris Ready to fix what "you-know-who" should have done right the 1st time. it plays great & I agree QS Synth is tops & superior to anything I ever got with Dolby PLIIx Music mode.

I'm hoping the Involve at least = QRX9001 and if it's as good or better than a QSD-1, I'll be very happy. I am bit disappointed about your experience with SQ mode tho. I also have a Tate but mine is the Audionics version but upgraded with Tate II chips. Altho I would not sell either the Sansui or Tate, I was hoping the Involve could be a equal or better replacement for both in case of degradation. as much $$ I have sunk into the Sansui, I wouldn't restore it a 3rd time...and we all know the day will come when the controls need deoxited again and that's a complete disassembly.

when I can set mine up, I'll see if it also has the same SQ effect. Altho I have a few big band style Project 3's, I don't have MacArthur Park @:

For SQ, I have a big collection to chose from but DSOTM, Santana Abraxas & Caravanseri I'm intimately familiar with how the Tate handles, like the the cricket chirps on Caravanseri - in each LP, there are places where the sounds swirl around the listening position, so they should be a good test of F/R & L/R balances & soundfield.

For 2 ch, I'll use a Merl Saunders/Jerry Garcia new age-y CD called Blues From the Rain Forest, Eagles One of These Nights & Alan Parsons I Robot all of which QS Synth works magic on.

That's my plan.

All I need is the box to get here!

BTW - Chris Ready did a great job on mine; his work is holding up after 4 yrs - total re-cap, fixed solder joints that QB didn't, and still no scratchy controls or drop-outs. Very pleased with his workmanship. I don't know if he's still around for repair work.

 

[ss9001]

my gawd, I just checked my LP's & I actually do own Brass Menagerie LP & MacArthur Park :yikes

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Tab

Thanks for the info. Dave is looking at the issues you had with the SQ. This is really puzzling to me as yesterday I visited Rustyandi's home and I deliberately asked him to switch between Involve SQ and his Tate. I listened specifically to the issues you mentioned but all was well. I could detect the differences - slight improved clarity/ imaging on the SM.

Something clearly is wrong - I believe Dave has asked you to post somewhere the material you were listening to so we can evaluate where the issue might be. I am happy to send another unit after we get some idea where the problem might be.

Regards

chucky

 

[rustyandi]

Tab
I mentioned the QS SURROUND SYNTHESIZER.
Button to Charlie when he first came to my home
He looked into it and was not impressed
I used to use it a lot myself but I started to find
it sent to much to the rears then went back to using the QS button on Stereo
What you found with your SQ decoding seems a bit strange
But like all things that are made some times some thing goes wrong
you just hope that it is not yours

But I found by using The first Surround Master that has the TSS stereo wide effect
then into either the Surround Master Involve or QSD1
you can get the most amazing surround out of stereo
It is like playing Q Sound through the Surround Master
I have not tried this with any other outboard (Spatializer or SRS) units
that may give the same effect
But like all random mixes there are also not so good sounds
Like I always say try it once, if you don't like it don't do it again
Ron

 

[QUADradial]

Chucky...
I haven't heard back from Dave as to where to put the source material. I can dropbox it to you guys if you want. I'll record the QS and SQ versions of the song, then I'll run a 4-channel wav file of each.

As far as the QS synth mode...don't forget, my QSD-1 is fresh. All caps and transistors have been replaced. Only the Sansui ICs are old. I've never heard anything like it. I also dread every lightning storm within 300 miles of here.