Major label non-classical quad mixes of live albums that DON'T have discrete rear information?

[steelydave]

The recent discussion in the Joni Mitchell Quadio thread about whether or not the Miles of Aisles quad mix would have discrete instrument placement in the rear speakers (spoiler, it does) got me thinking about this.

It seems like the rule for modern 5.1 and Atmos mixes of live material is to replicate the experience of the concert attendee, putting the band in front of you and then the crowd all around. Obviously there are a few notable exceptions to this, but the seem to outnumber the rest 100:1 if not 1000:1.

This got me thinking about quad mixes of live albums, and every time I think of one, The O'Jays Live in London, Billy Paul Live in Europe, Santana & Buddy Miles Live!, Aretha Live at Fillmore West, BB King Live in Japan, Ike & Tina Turner Live at Carnegie Hall, Focus Live at the Rainbow, Mahavishnu Orchestra Between Nothingness and Eternity Live, and on and on they all put you in the middle of the band onstage with discrete instruments in the rear and then the crowd behind that.

So the question I have is, can anyone come up with any major label quad releases of non-classical material that are ambient or have the more modern band front/crowd rear mixing style, or are we needlessly worrying every time a live quad is reissued that it won't be discrete?

 

[sjcorne]

Jackson Five - Live In Japan and Shirley Bassey - Live in Japan are both ambient mixes.

The Allman Bros' Live At The Fillmore is an oddity in that the CD-4 LP & quad reel have your typical 'band upfront, venue sound rear' surround mix, but the DTS-CD (often said to be from a quad source) has the rhythm guitars almost completely isolated in the back speakers. Could it be possible that they actually remixed this album for the DTS release? Or maybe there were two quad mixes prepared during the '70s (one ambient, one discrete) and the unreleased/rejected alternative master was accidentally pulled by Miller Nevada/MoFi?

 

[~dave~~wave~]

Exhibit A: Santana Lotus
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/santana-lotus-sacd-japan.23343/

 

[fredblue]

following on from what Jonathan said about the Jackson 5 live, i think pretty much all of the Motown Live Japanese Quads have ambient mixes? i remember being underwhelmed by the Surround on the Motown Live CD-4 discs i picked up anyway..

 

[fredblue]

Exhibit A: Santana Lotus
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/santana-lotus-sacd-japan.23343/

good call..!

such a shame it wasn't mixed more like the Santana Live! with Buddy Miles! Quad..! (or whatever it's called!?)

 

[winopener]

95% of ELP Welcome Back...

 

[quicksrt]

So "War Live" might or should also be a nice discreet four-cornered affair then. Great!

And gotta wonder about Isaac Hayes – "Live At The Sahara Tahoe" too.

 

[fredblue]

So "War Live" might or should also be a nice discreet four-cornered affair then. Great!

And gotta wonder about Isaac Hayes – "Live At The Sahara Tahoe" too.

Live at the Sahara Tahoe is a discrete mix for sure! it's a hoot!

don't remember a thing about War Live i'm afraid

 

[winopener]

So "War Live" might or should also be a nice discreet four-cornered affair then. Great!

Not too much (pun understood). Rears aren't silent as in ELP or in Santana Lotus but are used constantly for ambience. You're sitting in the front row of the concert (which is not a bad place to be) and the people groovin' to the music are all around you. More or less what you do expect from a live album for a sound without gimmick.
Said that, the performance is smokin'!

 

[MidiMagic]

Why do you think that a discrete album with nothing but audience and venue sounds in the back speakers is not discrete?

If it's on a discrete medium, it's discrete.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Why do you think that a discrete album with nothing but audience and venue sounds in the back speakers is not discrete?

If it's on a discrete medium, it's discrete.

You bring up a good point , as I have the DVD of Lou Reed Berlin....and although there is pretty much nothing in the rear channels of this LIVE recording , at the conclusion the rears open up distinctive of a discreet Concert...nice and clean btw.

 

[steelydave]

Why do you think that a discrete album with nothing but audience and venue sounds in the back speakers is not discrete?

If it's on a discrete medium, it's discrete.

Why don't you spend 30 seconds of your valuable time reading the content of my initial post before you attempt to derail this thread with pedantic nonsense based on a willful misinterpretation of the thread title instead of wasting everyone else's?

discrete instrument placement in the rear speakers

Hope that helps.

 

[jimfisheye]

95% of ELP Welcome Back...

Haha. But that 5% is very discrete (and very gratuitous)!

That wild animal aside...
Funny how this works. A 'stereo up front audience in the rear' mix is welcome as can be over just a stereo mix. In the case where the original source recording is genuinely only a live 2-track board tape and then a pair of mics in the audience, this is a great use of a surround format.

The moment we discover there actually were multitracks and just no one ever made a discrete mix, disappointment sets in.

Some of the 'mix up front, audience in back' mixes are weirder than nature intended though. The genuine article has real band sound in the audience mics. Bits that were loud in the room (and thus often quieter in the board feed) are prominent. Sometimes this genuinely restores the live balances in a great way that were otherwise lost in the 2-track. Some of the weird ones sound faked. Either only applause and no music sound at all or obvious reverb fx generated from the stereo mix. These deserve to be loudly called out as fakes.

 

[winopener]

War live fits the "genuine article" description.

 

[MidiMagic]

I was commenting on this line:

"are we needlessly worrying every time a live quad is reissued that it won't be discrete?"