LizardKing
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
I can't stare at a blank screen...:xp:
Master's Project Surround Downloads and Discussion!
- Thread starter rtbluray
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I'm listening right now. 
Thank you Ryan for posting your mixes.
More of us should experiment with 5.1 mixing, if they have the equipment.
I like the music and especially the vocals are great.
The mixes are well balanced in the surround field.
The second track has the most punch out of the three tracks.
So, the first and third song lack a little bit of power.
But I have something else and I wonder if the other mates here have the same experience.
There are up- and downturns in volume.
I think this comes from seperation/compression faults.
Did you hear that, Ryan?
I will listen to them again now.
Good work!
Thank you Ryan for posting your mixes.
More of us should experiment with 5.1 mixing, if they have the equipment.
I like the music and especially the vocals are great.
The mixes are well balanced in the surround field.
The second track has the most punch out of the three tracks.
So, the first and third song lack a little bit of power.
But I have something else and I wonder if the other mates here have the same experience.
There are up- and downturns in volume.
I think this comes from seperation/compression faults.
Did you hear that, Ryan?
I will listen to them again now.
Good work!
I'm listening right now.
Thank you Ryan for posting your mixes.
More of us should experiment with 5.1 mixing, if they have the equipment.
I like the music and especially the vocals are great.
The mixes are well balanced in the surround field.
The second track has the most punch out of the three tracks.
So, the first and third song lack a little bit of power.
But I have something else and I wonder if the other mates here have the same experience.
There are up- and downturns in volume.
I think this comes from seperation/compression faults.
Did you hear that, Ryan?
I will listen to them again now.
Good work!
Hi Ryan, great work buddy. I am listening to the songs for the third time on a row
Vocals mixed in the centre with good use of the surrounds for guitar, drums and bass. Sound promising for your future projects!
About the comment from Nico, I am experiencing something similar. It sounds as if the drums are not always on the same level between the left and right surround speaker. I cannot pinpoint the places at the moment, as I will get some vistors over Soon, not much time left
Hi guys.
Thanks for listening!
If the ups and downs in volume you're hearing during each song sound like it's the drums, then you're correct.
This particular drummer the group had at the time was a very inconsistent hitter, especially when it came to the snare.
Good thing was that there was good separation between the kick and the rest of the kit so I could use a lot of compression/ and limiting to make the kick punch the way I wanted it to.
The same cannot be said for the snare. Not only are the hits inconsistent, but they are drowned out a lot of the time by his damn crash cymbal, smacking away at it. Compression & Limiting didn't help much in this instance because most of the crash cymbal you're hearing is from the snare mic...
On another note besides that, there is no compression/limiting over the entire mix, so the dynamics are wide open which could also contribute to ups and downs in level.
But if there are other things you're noticing besides that, let me know!
Thanks again!
Thanks for listening!
If the ups and downs in volume you're hearing during each song sound like it's the drums, then you're correct.
This particular drummer the group had at the time was a very inconsistent hitter, especially when it came to the snare.
Good thing was that there was good separation between the kick and the rest of the kit so I could use a lot of compression/ and limiting to make the kick punch the way I wanted it to.
The same cannot be said for the snare. Not only are the hits inconsistent, but they are drowned out a lot of the time by his damn crash cymbal, smacking away at it. Compression & Limiting didn't help much in this instance because most of the crash cymbal you're hearing is from the snare mic...
On another note besides that, there is no compression/limiting over the entire mix, so the dynamics are wide open which could also contribute to ups and downs in level.
But if there are other things you're noticing besides that, let me know!
Thanks again!
Hi guys.
Thanks for listening!
If the ups and downs in volume you're hearing during each song sound like it's the drums, then you're correct.
This particular drummer the group had at the time was a very inconsistent hitter, especially when it came to the snare.
Good thing was that there was good separation between the kick and the rest of the kit so I could use a lot of compression/ and limiting to make the kick punch the way I wanted it to.
The same cannot be said for the snare. Not only are the hits inconsistent, but they are drowned out a lot of the time by his damn crash cymbal, smacking away at it. Compression & Limiting didn't help much in this instance because most of the crash cymbal you're hearing is from the snare mic...
On another note besides that, there is no compression/limiting over the entire mix, so the dynamics are wide open which could also contribute to ups and downs in level.
But if there are other things you're noticing besides that, let me know!
Thanks again!
I love the way that kick drum sounds
, the entire low end sounds good to me for that matter . I think the mix is very good, the only negative thing that I could come up with is that the guitars are sometimes a bit to much in the rears for my taste but overall I think this is a damn good first mix .thanx for mixes, it was interesting.
sounds like music pretty poor in arrangement/polyphony so it seems you have been given not too much to work with.
you could try to make some samples from original tracks and /or samples libraries and use it to enrich the sound overall.
sounds like music pretty poor in arrangement/polyphony so it seems you have been given not too much to work with.
you could try to make some samples from original tracks and /or samples libraries and use it to enrich the sound overall.
thanks Ryan for the detailed explanation, that explains what I am hearing.Hi guys.
Thanks for listening!
If the ups and downs in volume you're hearing during each song sound like it's the drums, then you're correct.
This particular drummer the group had at the time was a very inconsistent hitter, especially when it came to the snare.
Good thing was that there was good separation between the kick and the rest of the kit so I could use a lot of compression/ and limiting to make the kick punch the way I wanted it to.
The same cannot be said for the snare. Not only are the hits inconsistent, but they are drowned out a lot of the time by his damn crash cymbal, smacking away at it. Compression & Limiting didn't help much in this instance because most of the crash cymbal you're hearing is from the snare mic...
On another note besides that, there is no compression/limiting over the entire mix, so the dynamics are wide open which could also contribute to ups and downs in level.
But if there are other things you're noticing besides that, let me know!
Thanks again!
César
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Hi Ryan. After my first listen while playing Lego with my son, I'd like to start the usual discussion about isolated vocals in the center speaker. I'm the greatest supporter of vocals in the center, but I think they have a drawback: When the singer's voice is a bit weak like in this case, it exposes it a bit too much, stressing out its weakness. For this particular singer, did you try spreading out his voice towards the fronts?
I need to listen to the songs more times to have a more fair opinion though
I need to listen to the songs more times to have a more fair opinion though
Thanks for listening.
The vocals are actually in the front Left and Right channels too but at a reduced level.
I don't believe in spreading something like the vocal out equally across all three front channels.
Otherwise you get image shifting and more, which totally defeats the purpose of what I believe a center channel is there for, which is to anchor and center mix elements for those listening outside the "sweet spot".
So something that's prominent in the center channel (like in this case the lead vocal) will be spread out at a reduced level to other channels.
I also do not believe in putting just vocals or lead elements in the center, so I always add a reduced amount of centered foundational content (centered drums, bass, etc) to the center, that way the lead vocal or whatnot is not completely isolated in that channel on its own. So if on these mixes you mute all channels except the center, you won't get just an isolated lead vocal, but there's also a reduced mixture of drums, bass, guitars, etc.
You're absolutely right that putting the vocal in the center channel can expose it too much and emphasize any weaknesses, which is why a lot of mixing engineers prefer to use phantom center over the actual center channel, but if you do it that way, then you might as well take out the center as you are not really using it, and since it's there, I like to put it to use for something.
Plus even though I haven't posted my own stereo mixes for these tracks, I'm fairly certain that the vocal is at a consistent level between the stereo and surround mixes despite the change in dominant channel placement, so you would most likely be hearing the same "weaknesses" in phantom center as you would from the center channel.
Hope that's a good explanation, and once again, thanks for listening!
I just listened too Ryan - I was personally pleased with the overall mix. I admit, I have a powerhouse sub...and sometime during the 2nd tune, the sub sort of bottomed out (popped) if you know what I mean....not sure what the heck that was all about. Otherwise, I like how the vocals sound..very strong and featured. I sort of wish I could have heard guitar licks a bit more pronounced. But, overall, I thought it was good. Music is good as well.
Thanks for listening, GOS!
I have to ask real quick, do you have full-range speakers for the five main channels, or a satellites system that uses bass management to crossover lower frequencies to the sub?
If it's the latter, it's possible the summing of lower frequencies to the sub combining with what's actually in the LFE channel is overpowering your sub.
I've done a lot of listening on my own satellites system to arrive at the balances and levels the mixes are at right now, but each system and sub is different, so ymmv.
Thanks again for the feedback!
Thanks for listening, GOS!
I have to ask real quick, do you have full-range speakers for the five main channels, or a satellites system that uses bass management to crossover lower frequencies to the sub?
If it's the latter, it's possible the summing of lower frequencies to the sub combining with what's actually in the LFE channel is overpowering your sub.
I've done a lot of listening on my own satellites system to arrive at the balances and levels the mixes are at right now, but each system and sub is different, so ymmv.
Thanks again for the feedback!
I have complete full range speakers...but I still utilize bass management since my sub is more capable of earth shaking volumes than my main speakers. It is possible that I need to rerun Audessey as I've messed with sub settings as of late to accommodate some bass lacking discs I have. It's possible...but again...this sub can pretty much handle anything you throw at it.
Fair enough. To me that's the hardest thing about surround mixing is knowing how much to put in the dedicated LFE channel. I would be fine with not using it myself, but if it's there, better to add a little something there just in case people think it's a defective mix cause the LFE channel is empty.
Fair enough. To me that's the hardest thing about surround mixing is knowing how much to put in the dedicated LFE channel. I would be fine with not using it myself, but if it's there, better to add a little something there just in case people think it's a defective mix cause the LFE channel is empty.
I run a sub with my system because I want to add a foundation to the surround field. Just something down there to add a bottom to the sound coming from the other 5 speakers. It isn't loud but it's there.
Oh boy....mine is too. Good point...a foundation. That's what mine is. Makes a HUGE difference.
you did everything right with vox. that's just because lack of instrumental elements it's became most prominent piece in mix, thus draws much attention to itself.
Nice rtbluray, keep in mind I'm only a consumer and have no music talent, so here are some thoughts had while listening to your generous 5.1 flac downloads:
Not muddy to me could be a voice heavy center speaker thing. Voice too prominent center noticed in Free especially, in general his voice reduced center and also in the surrounds absent or ambient in the fronts, would have worked better for me. More distinct and emphatic bass guitar, thinking Colin Edwin Arriving Somewhere, could have helped with a fuller sound. Drum level is good for me, not buried! Xylophone? on Follow would have been cool moving clockwise rather than stationary left surround otherwise a nice effect. Like the lingering effect in surrounds at end of Free No subwoofer issues for me. Also like the supporting vocals surround on Follow.
Not muddy to me could be a voice heavy center speaker thing. Voice too prominent center noticed in Free especially, in general his voice reduced center and also in the surrounds absent or ambient in the fronts, would have worked better for me. More distinct and emphatic bass guitar, thinking Colin Edwin Arriving Somewhere, could have helped with a fuller sound. Drum level is good for me, not buried! Xylophone? on Follow would have been cool moving clockwise rather than stationary left surround otherwise a nice effect. Like the lingering effect in surrounds at end of Free No subwoofer issues for me. Also like the supporting vocals surround on Follow.
Thanks for listening, Cibola!
I'm having trouble following one or two of your points, but I'm glad you brought up the xylophone, because there is a somewhat interesting story behind how it ended up the way that it did in this surround mix.
It was given to me in the mixing session as a dual mono file, which means mono and phantom center. I always knew that was going to be one of those surround-only elements, so I stuck it in the surround channels right in the middle behind the listener, and my primary advisor liked the idea, but he wasn't satisfied with the fact that it wasn't actually enveloping him.
So we split the dual mono file into separate files, panned them far left and far right, delayed one side by about 10 ms and BAM! Envelopment! And that's what you hear now.
A similar thing happened with the gang vocals on "Follow". They were originally panned to phantom center in stereo, but that wasn't satisfying my quest for envelopment when I panned it to the surround channels, so once I discovered that they were actually two separate takes laid on top of each other, I panned one out to the left and the other to the right, and that gave me the envelopment I was looking for.
So what did I learn from all that?
For surround content, sides is usually better than phantom middle as it gives us that envelopment that we love.
Sorry, I was writing on the fly while listening. I felt the voice was just too prominent in the center and given the nature of his voice, I was thinking it could have worked better at a reduced level in the center speaker while added to the surrounds with little or no voice in the front left and right. It's funny about the xylophone, only noticed it in the left surround, I might have a setup issue. I'll give it another listen.
Ah, now that makes more sense, lol
Interesting point.
Some mixers will do that where they have something like a vocal prominent in the center channel and then also spread it out to the surrounds, which pulls the voice forward into the room a little more.
It's more of a personal preference of mine to keep the vocal anchored in the front with none in the surrounds, but again, that's more of a personal preference. Ymmv.
And yeah the xylophone should be at equal level in both left and right surrounds at the end of "Follow".
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