Pink Floyd - "Animals" 5.1 Surround Sound Mix (Blu-Ray & SACD editions out in September 2022!)

[key_wiz]

Forthcoming: https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/133317/Pink_Floyd-Dark_Side_Of_The_Moon-Hybrid_Multichannel_SACD

Arrgggggh! I may have to get that one too? Hmmm.

I think I’ll at least wait until it’s released to know for sure what the packaging is however.

Matched sets are nice. Although nothing looks worse than the MC shelves on my wall! Seems like every disc is in it’s own special-sized packaging!

 

[key_wiz]

Well personally I haven't seen anything in print officially by anybody within Pink Floyd management or any band member stating that's the case, just second hand information from forums such as this. Please correct me if I'm wrong. As for owing their fans they bloody well do!
No food banks for these guys.

You are correct about everything being just 'second hand information". And, like you apparently, I am one who is very cautious about speculating beyond known facts. We tend to do that sometimes in forums such as this when we have little else to go on and get anxious about upcoming/hoped-for releases.

But I will say this about my own second-hand information: My friend who knows Mr. Guthrie who told me about the tapes being in bad shape? He's a musician who does his own recordings and that is part of the reason he has built a friendship with Guthrie. But beyond that, he's neither particularly a fan of Pink Floyd, of surround-sound music, nor is a collector or even much of a purchaser of recorded music. He would know nothing, nor care, about anything we discuss on this forum.

And the first time I brought up the subject and asked him if he knew anything about whether there would ever be a 5.1 release of The Wall, he told me that the multi-tracks were in poor shape and they were 'baking' them and such. That, in my mind at least, confirmed the other rumors I had read here and elsewhere that I don't believe he would know about otherwise. I was actually a bit surprised when he brought up the condition of the tapes because it so matched what, for me, had only been internet rumors to that point.

That's really all I can offer, and everyone here is free to do with it as they will. Take it or leave it.

My only speculation is that it seems to me that whatever needs to be done to salvage the tapes and transfer the music to digital shouldn't take YEARS to complete. They are either salvageable or they are not. But I don't know what other factors may be involved that might be holding things up.

 

[timothyemerson]

I think he was probably being a bit facetious and having some fun with the state of acrimony that we all know exists between members of the band.

But unreleased Animals quad?

Indeed I was. But wouldn't it be good if we did get 2 mixes? Andy gets paid, James gets paid, we get charged, Dave and Roge are happy. It'd work. We got The White Album in surround, Dutton Vocalion are releasing 2 quad albums on 1 SACD, so stranger things have happened. Perhaps Pink Floyd could have a race and see if they can do 2 surround mixes of an album and release it before we get a chance to buy Tears for Fears: The Seeds of Love? On your marks, get set, go!

 

[rontoon]

The mighty Rontoon speaks, I know you from Yeeshkul. Evidently you have little evidence, I will leave it there.

I'm in no way mighty, I've just been into the band for a long time and take your reply as being condescending. I'm not sure of the evidence you're referring to. In fact, no evidence has been presented at all in regards to the status of the multichannel Wall mix although we just did get a guarantee regarding it's recording status.

I agree with the no smoke and mirrors....but I can guarantee you THE WALL was recorded at least 2 x. People say that you are an expert on all things Pink Floyd, so can you answer this question....."When was the concept of The Wall first discussed and with whom?"

Sorry, I don't feel the need to play games or defend myself. Anyone can do a Google search and answer pretty much any question like this.

 

[musicmemorabiliashoppellc]

I'm in no way mighty, I've just been into the band for a long time and take your reply as being condescending. I'm not sure of the evidence you're referring to. In fact, no evidence has been presented at all in regards to the status of the multichannel Wall mix although we just did get a guarantee regarding it's recording status.



Sorry, I don't feel the need to play games or defend myself. Anyone can do a Google search and answer pretty much any question like this.

Well neither do I.....if I remember correctly yesterday some of the stuff you said was just as condescending

 

[rontoon]

Guthrie mentioned in interviews working on The Wall in 5.1 as far back as 2011. It was brought up during The Wall Immersion release as well as the WYWH and Amused to Death SACD releases. The Wall was slated to be worked on next while Guthrie remarked that he would like to work on Animals. He also mentioned the problematic state of the original multitracks. Here we are 8 years later with Animals in 5.1 slated to be released this year and no word about The Wall in years. It's not such a huge leap to assume that The Wall project has been problematic, perhaps it still is, when Animals has been done and dusted in the interim. If there were other multitrack options available Mr. Guthrie would know better than anyone.

http://www.brain-damage.co.uk/album...review-and-interviews-including-james-gu.html

Is Pink Floyd's The Wall Immersion edition going to have a 5.1 Surround Mix?

James: My understanding is that EMI plan to stick to their release schedule for the 'Why Pink Floyd?' campaign, which means there wouldn't be time to include a 5.1 mix in 'The Wall' Immersion Box. I will be doing a 5.1 mix of The Wall for release on SACD, but we don't have a planned release date for that yet. The original multitrack tapes are in pretty bad shape, so the project will take some time. I'm currently working on a Blu-ray release of 'The Wall' Movie.

By "the original multitrack tapes being in pretty bad shape" - are you referring to the Ampex (or other brand) reel tapes manufactured post 1978 that can gum up tape machines and shed magnetic oxide?

James: Yes. Half-way (ish) through the 70s, and unbeknownst to all of us in the studio world, the tape manufacturers changed the formula of the glue that bonds the oxide to the backing of the tape. I'm told that the original glue contained whale oil, so they had to change to a synthetic oil and that synthetic oil unfortunately causes the glue to break down over time, producing a gummy substance that seeps through the oxide making the tapes unplayable. Fortunately, a bright spark bravely discovered that you could bake the tapes and then safely play them a few times. But, that's not the only challenge when it comes to restoration - Edits, or tape splices, and the breakdown of the glue in the splicing tape that holds those edits together, have caused huge problems. I made hundreds of edits on both the 2" and the ¼” tapes of 'The Wall', so you start to get an idea of how time-consuming the restoration can be.

Additionally, there was a manufacturing period of 2 or 3 years where the tapes were particularly unstable. Of course, they appeared fine at the time. Both 'The Wall' and 'The Final Cut' albums are recorded on the peak of that bad tape.

Are any other Floyd multitrack tapes, in your experience, suffering from this particular problem?

James: Everything after 1976 or 1977 is susceptible to the problem. Even the tape we are using now. And it's not just the multitrack tapes that are affected – the ¼” and ½” masters are in the same predicament.

Some more interviews where he mentioned working on The Wall in 5.1

http://soundbard.com/building-the-5...-surround-sound-plans-at-academic-conference/

During the Q&A portion, Guthrie confirmed he’d like to do more Pink Floyd 5.1 mixes, but that it often comes down to a matter of the time available on his and the band’s collective schedules, so “don’t hold your breath.” That said, he was willing to concede that The Wall seems to be the most likely next candidate in the 5.1 queue, but the album he’d be most interested to do in surround is Animals.

http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/music/1015/James_Guthrie_Interview.htm

One thing Guthrie can confirm is his next surround assignment: "I'm going to be starting a 5.1 mix of The Wall soon — the original studio album, that is," he reports. "And we have discussed Animals." No timetable on when The Wall in 5.1 will be completed for release as of yet, but rest assured, we'll be right on top of it.

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/pink-floyd-the-wall-5-1-coming-to-sacd-says-james-guthrie/

Pink Floyd engineer James Guthrie has confirmed that he will be mixing The Wallalbum in 5.1 Surround and that this mix will appear on SACD (Super Audio CD), although there is no release date planned as yet.

 

[musicmemorabiliashoppellc]

Guthrie mentioned in interviews working on The Wall in 5.1 as far back as 2011. It was brought up during The Wall Immersion release as well as the WYWH and Amused to Death SACD releases. The Wall was slated to be worked on next while Guthrie remarked that he would like to work on Animals. He also mentioned the problematic state of the original multitracks. Here we are 8 years later with Animals in 5.1 slated to be released this year and no word about The Wall in years. It's not such a huge leap to assume that The Wall project has been problematic, perhaps it still is, when Animals has been done and dusted in the interim. If there were other multitrack options available Mr. Guthrie would know better than anyone.

http://www.brain-damage.co.uk/album...review-and-interviews-including-james-gu.html

Is Pink Floyd's The Wall Immersion edition going to have a 5.1 Surround Mix?

James: My understanding is that EMI plan to stick to their release schedule for the 'Why Pink Floyd?' campaign, which means there wouldn't be time to include a 5.1 mix in 'The Wall' Immersion Box. I will be doing a 5.1 mix of The Wall for release on SACD, but we don't have a planned release date for that yet. The original multitrack tapes are in pretty bad shape, so the project will take some time. I'm currently working on a Blu-ray release of 'The Wall' Movie.

By "the original multitrack tapes being in pretty bad shape" - are you referring to the Ampex (or other brand) reel tapes manufactured post 1978 that can gum up tape machines and shed magnetic oxide?

James: Yes. Half-way (ish) through the 70s, and unbeknownst to all of us in the studio world, the tape manufacturers changed the formula of the glue that bonds the oxide to the backing of the tape. I'm told that the original glue contained whale oil, so they had to change to a synthetic oil and that synthetic oil unfortunately causes the glue to break down over time, producing a gummy substance that seeps through the oxide making the tapes unplayable. Fortunately, a bright spark bravely discovered that you could bake the tapes and then safely play them a few times. But, that's not the only challenge when it comes to restoration - Edits, or tape splices, and the breakdown of the glue in the splicing tape that holds those edits together, have caused huge problems. I made hundreds of edits on both the 2" and the ¼” tapes of 'The Wall', so you start to get an idea of how time-consuming the restoration can be.

Additionally, there was a manufacturing period of 2 or 3 years where the tapes were particularly unstable. Of course, they appeared fine at the time. Both 'The Wall' and 'The Final Cut' albums are recorded on the peak of that bad tape.

Are any other Floyd multitrack tapes, in your experience, suffering from this particular problem?

James: Everything after 1976 or 1977 is susceptible to the problem. Even the tape we are using now. And it's not just the multitrack tapes that are affected – the ¼” and ½” masters are in the same predicament.

Some more interviews where he mentioned working on The Wall in 5.1

http://soundbard.com/building-the-5...-surround-sound-plans-at-academic-conference/

During the Q&A portion, Guthrie confirmed he’d like to do more Pink Floyd 5.1 mixes, but that it often comes down to a matter of the time available on his and the band’s collective schedules, so “don’t hold your breath.” That said, he was willing to concede that The Wall seems to be the most likely next candidate in the 5.1 queue, but the album he’d be most interested to do in surround is Animals.

http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/music/1015/James_Guthrie_Interview.htm

One thing Guthrie can confirm is his next surround assignment: "I'm going to be starting a 5.1 mix of The Wall soon — the original studio album, that is," he reports. "And we have discussed Animals." No timetable on when The Wall in 5.1 will be completed for release as of yet, but rest assured, we'll be right on top of it.

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/pink-floyd-the-wall-5-1-coming-to-sacd-says-james-guthrie/

Pink Floyd engineer James Guthrie has confirmed that he will be mixing The Wallalbum in 5.1 Surround and that this mix will appear on SACD (Super Audio CD), although there is no release date planned as yet.

Understood.....but I'm not really debating that there are not problems with the multi-tracks for THE WALL.

What I'm saying is that it was recorded at least 2x I know this as a fact from Bob Ezrin himself as well as that my sister worked at Producers Workshop in LA while it was being worked on there as well. So I didn't like the comment that whomever said it that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I also used to be a freelance photographer for the music industry...

No harm intended or done I hope....

Cheers

 

[key_wiz]

Understood.....but I'm not really debating that there are not problems with the multi-tracks for THE WALL.

What I'm saying is that it was recorded at least 2x I know this as a fact from Bob Ezrin himself as well as that my sister worked at Producers Workshop in LA while it was being worked on there as well. So I didn't like the comment that whomever said it that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I also used to be a freelance photographer for the music industry...

No harm intended or done I hope....

Cheers

The only problem I saw with your statement was that you used this belief you have that the album was “recorded at least 2x” as support for your claim that you “are pretty sure the tapes are fine”.

Then you followed that up with saying “nuff said” as if this was some sort of definitive statement on the subject.

Even if they recorded the album 100x that tells us nothing about the condition of the particular tapes in question.

Also not sure what being a free lance photographer would have to do with anything?

 

[musicmemorabiliashoppellc]

The only problem I saw with your statement was that you used this belief you have that the album was “recorded at least 2x” as support for your claim that “the tapes are fine”.

Even if they recorded the album 100x that tells us nothing about the condition of the particular tapes in question.

Also not sure what being a free lance photographer would have to do with anything?

I agree it doesn't state that there are NOT PROBLEMS with the tapes....that's one of the reasons why it was done more than once if I remember correctly

 

[key_wiz]

I agree it doesn't state that there are NOT PROBLEMS with the tapes....that's one of the reasons why it was done more than once if I remember correctly

You’re just digging your hole deeper now, I’m afraid.

 

[Muppet69]

Can we get back on track with this being about the Animals 5.1 instead of being hijacked by The Wall and put that on it’s own thread by any chance? It’s wasting people’s time.

 

[Snood]

Yo Yo Yo guys & gals - Let's all rejoice in Pink Floyd and get back to the topic and Please no more goofy remarks towards each other. Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase

Everybody doesn't have to agree on a subject, but let's agree to keep the forums vibe nice

If Snood remembers right..... Topic was something like.....How awesome is that Snood guy?

 

[key_wiz]

Ok. Back to Animals! I’d much prefer to have this one in 5.1 right now. I think there is much more to reveal and clean up with this mix by putting it into surround than there would be with The Wall.

Also, while I was completely blown away by The Wall and played it to death when I was 18, it’s not an album that has aged well, IMO. It fit in great with the youthful angst of my early adulthood, but not so well as a middle-aged man. While the 5.1 would no doubt be a very interesting and fun listen, I’m not sure how often I’d go back to it.

Animals, OTHO, still works for me

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Yo Yo Yo guys & gals - Let's all rejoice in Pink Floyd and get back to the topic and Please no more goofy remarks towards each other. Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase

Everybody doesn't have to agree on a subject, but let's agree to keep the forums vibe nice

If Snood remembers right..... Topic was something like.....How awesome is that Snood guy?

I assure you, you have my Funkin' full support

 

[rontoon]

I agree it doesn't state that there are NOT PROBLEMS with the tapes....that's one of the reasons why it was done more than once if I remember correctly

This is the first I'm hearing that the master tapes were recorded 2x. It seems like a contradiction (or a bit of confusion at the least) since there can only be one master tape so it just doesn't make sense to me. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt the tapes they were using for "second recordings" from that time period would be as problematic as the first ones so it's pretty much a moot point.

Animals in 5.1 has been part of this discussion to offer context to the stalled Wall project. It's nice to see Guthrie getting his dream project (Animals) especially considering the flaws in the original that he feels that he can correct. Luckily the bad tape batches didn't affect this time period for the band.

 

[key_wiz]

This is the first I'm hearing that the master tapes were recorded 2x. It seems like a contradiction (or a bit of confusion at the least) since there can only be one master tape so it just doesn't make sense to me. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt the tapes they were using for "second recordings" from that time period would be as problematic as the first ones so it's pretty much a moot point.

And obviously so since it would be these supposed “second recordings” that are of such concern now.

Animals in 5.1 has been part of this discussion to offer context to the stalled Wall project. It's nice to see Guthrie getting his dream project (Animals) especially considering the flaws in the original that he feels that he can correct. Luckily the bad tape batches didn't affect this time period for the band.

Let’s hope not! Although Guthrie’s stated timeframe for bad tape puts this album right on the cusp!

 

[JonUrban]

"Shall we buy a new guitar? Shall we buy a more powerful car? Shall we sleep straight through the night? Shall we get into fights? Shall we get back on topic and stop bickering?"

 

[LuvMyQuad]

This is the first I'm hearing that the master tapes were recorded 2x. It seems like a contradiction (or a bit of confusion at the least) since there can only be one master tape so it just doesn't make sense to me. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt the tapes they were using for "second recordings" from that time period would be as problematic as the first ones so it's pretty much a moot point.

Animals in 5.1 has been part of this discussion to offer context to the stalled Wall project. It's nice to see Guthrie getting his dream project (Animals) especially considering the flaws in the original that he feels that he can correct. Luckily the bad tape batches didn't affect this time period for the band.

That's interesting. Is there a link that might elaborate on that?

 

[musicmemorabiliashoppellc]

You’re just digging your hole deeper now, I’m afraid.

I will repeat myself just to make it clear....I never said that there were not problems with the source tapes....all I ever said is that the album was recorded at least 2x....and was shot down on that point....that's all I'm debating

If you asumed otherwise....sorry

 

[jimfisheye]

Ok. Back to Animals! I’d much prefer to have this one in 5.1 right now. I think there is much more to reveal and clean up with this mix by putting it into surround than there would be with The Wall.

Also, while I was completely blown away by The Wall and played it to death when I was 18, it’s not an album that has aged well, IMO. It fit in great with the youthful angst of my early adulthood, but not so well as a middle-aged man. While the 5.1 would not doubt be a very interesting listen, I’m not sure how often I’d go back to it.

Animals, OTHO, still works for me

With ya there! Didn't play it to death even back then though. Still like isolated songs like The Thin Ice.

I'd like a JG mix of Animals but then handed off to AJ for mastering in the style that TER and Dave's last couple albums were mastered in. (That 'style' being: Completely right!) Was that AJ's mastering. Crap, need to look that up. Dear entity, please don't let it be a mastering disaster like hit Meddle and OBC on the retrospective box!!!

The 2x thing...
If they did re-record songs (which seems likely in a project of that scope), you realize that doesn't mean they carried the production all the way to the end (all the overdubs, segues, sequencing, etc) and then started over. They reworked things as the evolving arrangement dictated as you do. The production was a cinematic monster for sure! Epic bad timing with the tapes. Those comments are real and not just excuses unfortunately.

And Animals better be released in PCM digital first and not DSD! Damnit!