Pioneer DV-563A firmware campaign

[BananaSlug]

Just got my player back with re-updated firmware and it still has glitches. I think I'll call Pioneer tomorrow and tell them it's a lemon and I want my god damn money back. With the lack of titles and the 563a problems maybe I should just go back to stereo.

 

[neil wilkes]

Don't go back to Stereo.
Just get a different player.
These cheap Universals do not seem to be worthwhile, and Pioneer do not care about anything other than their "elite" range, as far as I can tell.

All my problems went away when I dumped my 565A (UK version of 563).
I now have a Cambridge Audio Azur - not perfect, but much better than the Pioneer, and on recommendation I'm saving for a Denon.

 

[BananaSlug]

Yeah, I just needed to vent - I'll never buy another Pioneer! The problem does seem to be much better, so maybe it'll go away like it did for some others.

I'm eyeing the Denon dvd-2200. It's not too expensive and seems to be nearly the quality of the 2900 - from what I've read.

 

[Quadzilla]

Yeah, I just needed to vent - I'll never buy another Pioneer! The problem does seem to be much better, so maybe it'll go away like it did for some others.

I'm eyeing the Denon dvd-2200. It's not too expensive and seems to be nearly the quality of the 2900 - from what I've read.

I wasn't going to jump in here, but I can't help it. The Pioneer is a CHEAP entry-level player. What the heck do you expect? I have one, and after the firmware upgrade it works just fine ... but who friggin' cares. It was two hundred bucks! If you are thinking about one of those Denons ... for a LOT more money ... AND you are that picky, then do a bit of research BEFORE you make an even bigger mistake.

Check out Audio Asylum and do a search for Denon problems. I've got news for you ... there are more players with "issues" out there than without them ... and for a LOT more money than you paid for that little Pioneer. Check into some of the Philips and Sony bitching while you are out there ... oh yeah, and Toshiba and Marantz too. Then get back to me. @: Mike.

 

[BananaSlug]

Check out Audio Asylum and do a search for Denon problems. I've got news for you ... there are more players with "issues" out there than without them ... and for a LOT more money than you paid for that little Pioneer. Check into some of the Philips and Sony bitching while you are out there ... oh yeah, and Toshiba and Marantz too. Then get back to me. @: Mike.

Right you are... maybe the human species isn't capable of producing a universal player quite yet. It's my opinion that if they (the electronics companies) can't make a universal player the works consistently for $200, then they shouldn't build one either. This also applies to $500 and $1000 levels etc. The end result is everybody being upset. If I had known it was going to cost me $1000 (or whatever) to get into sacd/dvd-a, then I could have made an informed decision as to whether it was worth it to me or not. I assume that when I purchase a product (especially a reasonably trusted band named one) that it will perform as advertised. Considering what you can get for $200 these days in consumer electronics, I don't think a small box that plays music from shiny discs flawlessly is too much to ask for at that price point. I don't expect that it will be the highest quality, but they could at least play the damn things.

 

[Quadzilla]

Right you are... maybe the human species isn't capable of producing a universal player quite yet. It's my opinion that if they (the electronics companies) can't make a universal player the works consistently for $200, then they shouldn't build one either. This also applies to $500 and $1000 levels etc. The end result is everybody being upset. If I had known it was going to cost me $1000 (or whatever) to get into sacd/dvd-a, then I could have made an informed decision as to whether it was worth it to me or not. I assume that when I purchase a product (especially a reasonably trusted band named one) that it will perform as advertised. Considering what you can get for $200 these days in consumer electronics, I don't think a small box that plays music from shiny discs flawlessly is too much to ask for at that price point. I don't expect that it will be the highest quality, but they could at least play the damn things.

Then find a used Pioneer Elite DV-45A for about US$300. The Pioneers are reputed to have the best transports, and this model seems to be as capable as any of playing all formats. I have several players, and this one is the ONLY one that doesn't seem to have "issues". That is my advice, for what it is worth. There are other members who can back me up, I am sure of that. Mike.

 

[BananaSlug]

It does seem like every time there is an issue with a disc someone chimes in saying that it plays on their 45a. However, I'm not interested in owning another Pioneer. And, it's not just because my sub $200 563a isn't perfect. I bought my 563a after they had upgraded their firmware (Jan 04). Whether or not Pioneer knew of the impending problems at this point I do not know, but usually perfectly good products aren't updated needlessly. The fact that they didn't fix the unsold already manufactured products at that time worries me some. I'm also upset that they didn't make the firmware upgrade easier for us all, and that I needed a second upgrade. This has considerably added to my expense and frustration level. I know it's not considered normal to hold to one's principles anymore (unless it's some extreme dogma), but I do hold it against Pioneer and I won't be buying any more of their equipment. I will wait until a better solution is produced. I don't expect anyone else to follow me and I respect other's decision to buy whatever they want to, so please don't go off on me. This is just my position.

 

[Quadzilla]

It does seem like every time there is an issue with a disc someone chimes in saying that it plays on their 45a. However, I'm not interested in owning another Pioneer. And, it's not just because my sub $200 563a isn't perfect. I bought my 563a after they had upgraded their firmware (Jan 04). Whether or not Pioneer knew of the impending problems at this point I do not know, but usually perfectly good products aren't updated needlessly. The fact that they didn't fix the unsold already manufactured products at that time worries me some. I'm also upset that they didn't make the firmware upgrade easier for us all, and that I needed a second upgrade. This has considerably added to my expense and frustration level. I know it's not considered normal to hold to one's principles anymore (unless it's some extreme dogma), but I do hold it against Pioneer and I won't be buying any more of their equipment. I will wait until a better solution is produced. I don't expect anyone else to follow me and I respect other's decision to buy whatever they want to, so please don't go off on me. This is just my position.

Well, that is certainly your decision. I work as a Marketing Manager for a company that is a LOT bigger than Pioneer, and I would have made the same decision as they did with regards to the DV-563A. Pioneer extended the warranty to three years on the firmware, because of a VERY few compatibility issues, and they openly posted it to their customers.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/PioneerCanadaEng/Files/POC_warranty.html

I wouldn't have recalled thousands of units from hundreds of stores either, based on a limited issue such as this. They also likely knew that the majority of these units had NOT been sold for "audio" use, rather as DVD-Video players, in which case MOST owners STILL likely don't know that there is an issue.

Buy what you want, but it would seem to me that ignoring the DV-45A is just out of spite rather than good judgement. I really think that you are right, that you are not going to be happy with this new technology yet and you should stick with stereo for the moment. You should easily be able to sell your 563. It is a lot better than its replacement, so they are in demand out there. Good luck, Mike.

 

[BananaSlug]

A. I'm not going back to stereo. I'm simply going to stick with my 563a until a more perfect alternative comes along. If these formats are to continue to exist, hardware/software issue will HAVE to be fixed.

B. I never suggested that Pioneer recall all of the 563a. They could have send firmware update discs to the stores, or to the customers, or just made the update available to more service centers to reduce the wait and the need to ship the unit out. I realize that the issue may be that the DVD-a software changed, i.e., not Pioneer's fault. However, I do fault Pioneer for the poor customer service.

C. You may call it spite, but if consumers keep swallowing anything that these corporations produce we'll never get them to improve. They are looking after their bottom lines. If they don't think that their actions will result in fewer sales in the future, they will ignore us plain and simple. I am voting with my dollars for a company with better service, that's all there is too it.

Now, back to the music!

 

[KevinD9052]

You should easily be able to sell your 563. It is a lot better than its replacement, so they are in demand out there. Good luck, Mike.

I have both-the 563 and the 578 (the replacement). What is the basis for your statement that the 563 is a lot better?
I know Pioneer upgraded the video DACS in the 578. And I'm sure the MC circuitry was changed or simplified with newer & probably cheaper chips. But I don't hear any difference at all when playing SACDs and DVD-As. I don't care if the DSD stream is converted to PCM. No one was sure if the 563 didn't do the same thing. I think it did because SACD sounds the same. And I love it. It is so much better than red book CDs. And no SACD dropouts so far (happened once with the 563) and it plays the newly encoded DVD-A disks. Even the video is slightly better. All for $129 which seems to be the new street price for this unit. Even the high end catalogs sell it at this price now. I'm sure the Denons and Elites sound a lot better. You get what you pay for. But the 578 is overall better than the 563 in performance and price.
Kevin

 

[BananaSlug]

I've listened to both the 563 and the 578 in my system. I haven't done A B tests, but I have to agree that I don't hear any noticeable difference. The specs might suggest that the 563 is better, but the 578's ability to play PAL DVDs and the fact it plays all SACD and DVD-a discs probably outweighs the technical stats. After all, it's what we hear that matters.

 

[bnyhof]

I haven't listened to a 578 to compare it to the 563, so I can't comment, but here is some conversation from another forum (both pro and con).

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=11097&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[Guy Robinson]

It does seem like every time there is an issue with a disc someone chimes in saying that it plays on their 45a.

Chiming in again. There is not one disc that I have had an issue with playing. I also love the sound of it. I did buy it however before the 563 with it's firmware issue which I guess now has been corrected. Not sure how I would feel about Pioneer in this case. I will say that I will never buy another Ford again for the remainder of my life after my Taurus fiasco.

 

[sam2112]

I have bought a Pioneer DV-45a because my dv-563a had problems with several dvd-audio titles. Here in Brazil Pioneer does not support this model and nether does firmware upgrades.
But after 1 month with my DV-45a I bought Empire - Queensryche dvd-audio and it does not play in High resolution 5.1.
Anyone does have being problems with this title with the DV-45a?
Please someone give me a light.
Thank´s
Sam
São Paulo - Brasil

 

[failames]

I just had the firmware upgraded in my player... I'm worse off now than I was before. Before, none of the dualdiscs I tried (except the NIN disc) would play - I tried Simple Plan and The Donnas dualdisc. I used to get the menu and the background music there, but once I tried playing the tracks, I would see the video but hear no sound.

Anyway, I shipped it out, had it replaced, I verified the firmware version, but now it fails to play just about EVERY DVD-A I put in it. Something strange I noticed was, when I powered the unit up, it says "NO ID NUM" and blinks that on the LCD panel and the top left corner says "NO ID NUMBER !!!" - I'm thinking the firmware upgrade was perhaps botched?

In any case, needless to say I'm growing disappointed with the player - does anyone have any recommendations for a lower cost universal player? Right now I'm looking at the Toshiba SD-4960, but I'm open to other suggestions. Thanks.

 

[Nova74]

I read that somebody had to get a second firmware upgrade? I got my 563 upgraded this summer once the Pioneer service centers got the discs (I didn't want to ship mine off).
I'm not going to be happy if I have to get another firmware upgrade.
Thanks All
Ryan

 

[bnyhof]

Sounds like the upgrade was botched. I had mine done when the new firmware first became available, and have not had a problem with one DVD-Audio or Dual Disc, and I have tried many. Make sure the firmware is at level 1.906.

 

[failames]

I read that somebody had to get a second firmware upgrade? I got my 563 upgraded this summer once the Pioneer service centers got the discs (I didn't want to ship mine off).
I'm not going to be happy if I have to get another firmware upgrade.
Thanks All
Ryan

I verified that my firmware is at 1.906 (Region 1 1.906_SglStp to be exact). How did you get Pioneer to send you a disc? When I called and tried to get one, they told me they didn't make them, and when I called the service center to see if it was ready, they said they were waiting on a "ROM IC" from Pioneer.

 

[kestral]

Massachusetts 563a owners BEWARE!

I *finally* got my unit back from the hellhole Authorized Service Center (ASC) that was recommended to me by Pioneer (for my 1.706 --> 1.906 firmware upgrade).

Here is the name of the utterly apathetic (or perhaps sadistic?) ASC I brought my unit to:

Audio Visual Service Co
589 Park Avenue
Worcester, MA 01603
508-752-6512
(Owner: Jerry Orre)

Dealing with these folks was an F'n nightmare! @: The upgrade took ONE FULL MONTH! These people did NOT deal with *me* in good faith. (YMMV, but I doubt it.) And I couldn't have been nicer to them. They never missed an opportunity to lie to me or give me the brush off regarding when my unit would be ready. They provided piss poor customer service to the max. I can't recall *ever* dealing with a company that seemed so unfriendly and disinterested in pleasing its customers. Wow. Stunning. At the company I work at, such customer-hostile, unreliable, untrustworthy behavior would be dealt with -- by termination!



Judge for yourself. Here's the timeline I endured:



Mon 1/31/05 (Day 1): dropped unit off in the AM. Lady at counter says she'll call me in 2-3 days with status info. She never calls (ever).

Fri 2/04/05 (Day 5): I call for status. Lady at counter has none. Says to call back next week...

I'm on travel the next week... so I wait until I'm back (a week) to call...

Fri 2/11/05 (Day 12): I call for status. It's the run-around, once again. "Jerry's talking to Pioneer..." "Call us on Monday..."

Mon 2/14/05 (Day 15): I call for status. "Gee, I know Jerry's working on it. Why don't you try again at the end of the week?"

Fri 2/18/05 (Day 19): I call for status. "Jerry's not here. He'll be back in on Monday morning."

Mon 2/21/05 (Day 22): I call for status. This time I *finally* get to speak with Jerry. He says the firmware upgrade is completed, but now, "the video is all pulled to the left". WTF? I say emphatically the video was absolutely fine when I dropped the unit off. He eventually comes around to saying that fixing the video is covered under warranty and should only take "a day or two". Says he'll call me when the unit is ready for pickup.

Wed 2/23/05 (Day 24): I call for status. Unit is not ready. Lady at counter says "Jerry is still working on it. Maybe later in the week?"

Fri 2/25/05 (Day 26): I call for status. New guy at counter answers. I explain the whole aggravated history. He seems mildly sympathetic. Says Jerry is out, but he'll call me as soon as he gets in, in about 20 minutes. Jerry finally calls at 6:45 PM. I'm really pissed now. I say this is the FOURTH WEEKEND IN A ROW WITHOUT MY UNIT! This is supposed to be a 20-30 minute fix, ferchissakes! Jerry says in an I-couldn't-give-less-of-a-shit unapologetic monotone that the unit will be ready for pickup on Monday, maybe Tuesday.

I hang up with Jerry and immediately call Pioneer. I'm fed up with AVS's lies and BS. I open a complaint against AVS. Pioneer assigns me a case number and says they'll handle it.

Tue 3/01/05 (Day 30): Here's the amazing part: Pioneer actually helps out! (Or so it seems.) :banana: Evidently, they called and spoke with Jerry. (Both parties probably had a good laugh at my expense. "Stupid customers!") Anyway, Lo and behold, I finally get the merciful call saying the unit is ready for pickup.

Wed 3/02/05 (Day 31): The nightmare is over. I pick up my unit after work and take it home. It works (version 1.906, finally). And the video is fine.



So, are you feeling lucky? You wanna go through that, too?

Didn't think so.

So, here's my word to the wise: For any 563a owners left in the Massachusetts area, I strongly recommend that you avoid Audio Visual 'Service' Co. like the plague. From what I hear (subsequently, alas), the place to go is in Norwood. So, here's the best service provider recommendation I can give you (caveat emptor):

The Service Bench Inc.
227 Carnegie Row
Norwood, MA
02062
781-769-4337

Good luck.

 

[Guy Robinson]

He doesn't work with a guy named "Tom" does he?