Questions on Atmos quality on various streaming platforms

[ManWhoCan]

Some of the music on your list is objectively mixed pretty aggressively, and whether or not the files or lossy should not have such an extreme difference on what you're hearing (you first described it as almost nothing coming from the rears).

Can you please name the music which you consider to be "objectively mixed pretty aggressively," so I can recheck? I already said The Hurting and Pet sounds were exceptions in that list.

 

[himey]

Some people who are used to more modern tech (HDMI) seem to be unaware of what is possible with older (preHDMI) tech. Some people seem to think the only solution is to replace older tech with newer, but there are other methods to solve problems. I have exactly the required 'computer with 6 analogue outs and a receiver with 6 analogue ins' .

I decode Atmos to 8 channels (4.0.4). I do it with Blu-ray's and compressed streaming files, and the difference between the two isn't nearly as dramatic as you make it out to be in most of your posts. I realize that you don't decode the Atmos, and you listen to only the bed 5.1, but I can do that too. My experience is, if it is a good mix, whether it is on Blu-ray or streaming, it will sound good if the mix is good. I am not the only one here with this sentiment.

For you to say you don't get any rear output with the compressed streaming titles, while the majority of other members here don't have that issue, including myself, then the problem is on your end. I am not defensive or maybe I am defending facts, I don't know, and I don't care. I don't have your issue. My system sounds excellent, and every week, I get new streaming titles that prove it. I feel bad for you if every passing week all these new mixes are released, and you are unable to enjoy them.

 

[LB-V]

I feel bad for you if every passing week all these new mixes are released, and you are unable to enjoy them.

Ditto. There are thousands of posts regarding the merits and pleasure of the vast majority of "Atmos" lossy titles we are getting these days. I don't care for a great deal of the music from a genre / taste perspective, but that is not an issue. Keep it coming!

Anyway, doesn't sound like it meets a pleasurable level for your (@ManWhoCan) tastes regardless.

Fortunately, you have all the previous formats to enjoy and you can leave the lossy Atmos as fodder for others!

 

[ManWhoCan]

LB-V says "Fortunately, you have all the previous formats to enjoy and you can leave the lossy Atmos as fodder for others!"

Man! I really hope not, but maybe it is a viable option for me to no longer bother with atmos. I read the enthusiam on here for these lossy atmos streams and respecting the opinions of members here I was really excited to experience these lossy atmos mixes for myself. On 1st hearing them and suffering deep disappointment I came here looking for the solution to what I was doing wrong.
Initially it seems VLC, MPC-BE & Foobar were unable to decode or messing up the decoding of atmos, so I was getting virtually nothing in my rears. Since then I have, I believe solved the decoding issue, and now I hear stuff in the rears. However with the limited number of these files I have (see list) most seem to have a pretty bad mix balance that I can only resolve by reducing the output from my fronts to 75%. Others here have stated that 'it seems some atmos mixes by some people are quite horrible', not my words. So it seems I am unlucky and generally have only managed to acquire the least desirable atmos mixes available with a couple of exclusions in The Hurting and Pet sounds.

 

[himey]

LB-V says "Fortunately, you have all the previous formats to enjoy and you can leave the lossy Atmos as fodder for others!"

Man! I really hope not, but maybe it is a viable option for me to no longer bother with atmos. I read the enthusiam on here for these lossy atmos streams and respecting the opinions of members here I was really excited to experience these lossy atmos mixes for myself. On 1st hearing them and suffering deep disappointment I came here looking for the solution to what I was doing wrong.
Initially it seems VLC, MPC-BE & Foobar were unable to decode or messing up the decoding of atmos, so I was getting virtually nothing in my rears. Since then I have, I believe solved the decoding issue, and now I hear stuff in the rears. However with the limited number of these files I have (see list) most seem to have a pretty bad mix balance that I can only resolve by reducing the output from my fronts to 75%. Others here have stated that 'it seems some atmos mixes by some people are quite horrible', not my words. So it seems I am unlucky and generally have only managed to acquire the least desirable atmos mixes available with a couple of exclusions in The Hurting and Pet sounds.

Are your rear speakers 25% of the quality of your front speakers? Maybe that is why you have to change the balance so drastically. My rears/side speakers are full range three-way's and I don't use bass management on them.

Looking at that list, nearly every one of them sound good on my setup. I like the quadraphonic mix of A Space In Time much better than the Atmos. I don't think any titles on that list are truly reference mixes, although many of them are very good.

 

[ManWhoCan]

I wish I could help you!

But, as a reference point, if you are a surround sound enthusiast and can recognize a good mix, if you stream Wille Nelson's "A Beautiful Time" and it falls anything short of a magnificent presentation, I guarantee something is not dialed in correctly with your setup!

I love the music, but the mix is top gun. I listen on a 4.1 system....using phantom center.

Keep us posted on any revelations, etc.!

I'd love to, I love Willie, but I don't have it. Now I feel emasculated

 

[ManWhoCan]

Are your rear speakers 25% of the quality of your front speakers? Maybe that is why you have to change the balance so drastically. My rears/side speakers are full range three-way's and I don't use bass management on them.

Looking at that list, nearly every one of them sound good on my setup. I like the quadraphonic mix of A Space In Time much better than the Atmos. I don't think any titles on that list are truly reference mixes, although many of them are very good.

I would not say they are 25% of the 'quality' whatever you mean by that. But they are not exactly the same as the fronts which are large cabinets with 12" woofers. Because 1 of the rears needs to be where we all too often have doors into rooms, the corner. I used smaller speakers for the rears which I could fit in the room. It may well be that the smaller rears might need more driving and so sound quieter, generally. I could say that was a certain limitation I have to live with where I am at the moment. However I play lots of other Mch formats and the front to rear discrepancy is only really bad with these particular lossy atmos streamed files.

Why do people keep saying atmos is defined as having more than 6ch? These files I have are official Apple Atmos files and they are all only 6ch.. I understand that some people here enjoy having more than 6ch and that atmos can have more than 6ch. but people have been having a go at me, saying my 6ch files can't be atmos: that I'm doing this and that wrong because I only have a 5.1 file so it can't be atmos! It is saddening.

 

[LB-V]

Why do people keep saying atmos is defined as having more than 6ch? These files I have are official Apple Atmos files and they are all only 6ch.

Sir, with all due respect, because Atmos is by definition a 5.1.2 system at a minimum!!

You need to understand that an Atmos file (generally speaking) is a 5.1 "bed" file but contains codec information that the Atmos AVR / media player uses to create the Atmos object placed music, creating the additional sound placements. It is not an Atmos multiple channel file per se. It contains information with the 5.1 music file to add and subtract sounds to give the Atmos presentation from the 5.1 channels.

There are several good threads on these pages and even a good Google search will help gain an understanding of Atmos.

 

[himey]

whatever you mean by that

These Atmos mixes are dynamic. That means they are full range. Tiny speakers can't handle full dynamics, so you are not going to get the full sound that you will from your front speakers. Temporarily move the large speakers to the back of the room and make them the rear channels, and move the small ones to the front, and I would guess your opinion of the mixing as it pertains to the back channels will change. There is some very important low end sounds going on in every Atmos channel.

I'm doing this and that wrong because I only have a 5.1 file so it can't be atmos!

You should read up on how Atmos works, and particularly METADATA. All the sounds are in your 5.1 file. The metadata tells the sounds where to be placed in the height channels setups, and then removes the sound "objects" from that 5.1 bed so they don't get redundant.

 

[ManWhoCan]

Are your rear speakers 25% of the quality of your front speakers? Maybe that is why you have to change the balance so drastically. My rears/side speakers are full range three-way's and I don't use bass management on them.

Looking at that list, nearly every one of them sound good on my setup. I like the quadraphonic mix of A Space In Time much better than the Atmos. I don't think any titles on that list are truly reference mixes, although many of them are very good.

Yeah! Space in Time is a fun mix with a much better mix balance even on my funky old system

 

[ManWhoCan]

These Atmos mixes are dynamic. That means they are full range. Tiny speakers can't handle full dynamics, so you are not going to get the full sound that you will from your front speakers. Temporarily move the large speakers to the back of the room and make them the rear channels, and move the small ones to the front, and I would guess your opinion of the mixing as it pertains to the back channels will change. There is some very important low end sounds going on in every Atmos channel.



You should read up on how Atmos works, and particularly METADATA. All the sounds are in your 5.1 file. The metadata tells the sounds where to be placed in the height channels setups, and then removes the sound "objects" from that 5.1 bed so they don't get redundant.

I used to run 2 large cabinets with 12" woofers as my rears, same as my fronts, but in the new house I can't do that where I listen, The back wall has a door in one corner a radiator in the middle and cupboads in the other corner there is nowhere to put large floorstanders in the rear. My make do, to fit the room, rears are not tiny. They have 7.5" woofers.

 

[ManWhoCan]

Sir, with all due respect, because Atmos is by definition a 5.1.2 system at a minimum!!

You need to understand that an Atmos file (generally speaking) is a 5.1 "bed" file but contains codec information that the Atmos AVR / media player uses to create the Atmos object placed music, creating the additional sound placements. It is not an Atmos multiple channel file per se. It contains information with the 5.1 music file to add and subtract sounds to give the Atmos presentation from the 5.1 channels.

There are several good threads on these pages and even a good Google search will help gain an understanding of Atmos.

Thanks for your explanation, I am happy to be educated by it, but I don't really need to have a deep understanding of Atmos. I just want to enjoy listening to the music.

 

[himey]

I don't really want to have a deep understanding of Atmos. I just want to enjoy listening to the music.

You asked the question and now, after multiple people answered it, you don't want to be bothered?

 

[ManWhoCan]

You asked the question and now, after multiple people answered it, you don't want to be bothered?

Not at all, you are inventing your own interpretations of what I've said. I never asked for a treatise on atmos. I never asked to be misunderstood and accused of stuff only in other people's imaginations. I just want to understand how to play atmos without it sounding as shit as it did on my 1st attempts with it. Jeez! some of you folks are downright hostile!

 

[ManWhoCan]

I have learned from being here and my playing of my lossy atmos streams sounds so much better now. Some mixes are better than others. Some sound really nice others sound as if made by some algorithm. The industry has always been like this, some good, some lazy. During my atmos journey here we suffered from over-thinking the issues. We had some side trips looking at things that turned out to be irrelevant. In the end I had 1st come here with the problem of my chosen software players not decoding properly. That was pretty much immediately sorted once I found out that Windows could do it natively (who'd have thought it?) Then things went round in grueling circles. It felt like I was getting a good grilling. Sorry for the tedium everyone. Thanks to everyone for the willingness to help me out. Over and out!

 

[stereoptic]

I'd love to, I love Willie, but I don't have it. Now I feel emasculated

It is available on Apple Music. Isn't that where you are getting your Apple lossy ATMOS streams? I'm confused.

 

[himey]

It is available on Apple Music.

I believe on Tidal it is in 360. Getting Apple files requires the jumping of many more hoops, allegedly.

 

[omnipotent1]

Do you have a Atmos setup?

Well if I didn't how would I know what the Atmos mixes sound like?

 

[AudiophileStyle]

HDMI is not required for Atmos. I don’t have any HDMI in my 7.1.4 system.

 

[perzon57]

Well if I didn't how would I know what the Atmos mixes sound like?

Some people around here states that they listen to Atmos mixes, when in fact they listen to them downmixed to 5.1. So it was a fair question. .