Sony did it right with SACD

[Jason]

All this negativity directed at Sony for the failure of SACD is sadly misplaced.

1) Sony's R & D Dept invented DSD in the first place.

2) Then Sony brought it to market at huge expense. Are 64-page full color brochures free? Are nationwide kiosks at Circuit City and BestBuy free? Are full-page ads free? Are advertisement pull-out sections in nationwide magazines free? How about subsidizing the first five releases per label?

3) Sony responded to every major consumer request. They a) added multi-channel; b) added backward compatibility; c) drastically reduced the price of players ($5000 to below $200).

4) What does Sony get for its efforts? ENDLESS carping. Not enough titles. The wrong titles. Stereo devotees complain about MCH being added. SACD purists complain about a CD layer being added. Hippies complain about Sony wanting to make a profit. CD fans complain that SACD is no better than CD. LP fans complain that SACD is worse than the LP. DVD-A fans complain that you don't need a TV monitor to play SACD. And the marketing -- where to begin!!! Every bean counter with a piece of paper thinks he's smarter than the Sony Corp!

If Sony were a person instead of a corporation, Sony would have been justified in pulling the plug just for the sheer lack of gratitude shown them. Hitherto, the most common complaint among audiophiles about the CD was that the quality wasn't good enough. So Sony gives them the best quality imaginable and even that isn't good enough!!!

 

[JonUrban]

1) Sony's R & D Dept invented DSD in the first place.

GRADE A+ - Good job Sony!!

2) Then Sony brought it to market at huge expense. Are 64-page full color brochures free? Are nationwide kiosks at Circuit City and BestBuy free? Are full-page ads free? Are advertisement pull-out sections in nationwide magazines free? How about subsidizing the first five releases per label?

GRADE A+ - Again, great job Sony!

3) Sony responded to every major consumer request. They a) added multi-channel; b) added backward compatibility; c) drastically reduced the price of players ($5000 to below $200).

GRADE A+ - Once again, Excellent response. Way to go Sony!

3A) Sony drops format like a hot potato at the point of the near breakthrough point of the format, Christmas 2003. Why was it the breakthrough point for the format? Here's why:

*) - DSOTM (which was switched from being an EMI DVD-A release) gets press in regular newspapers and magazines.
*) - Bob Dylan box set released and gets press as well.
*) - Rolling Stone Magazine includes SACD in each issue along with contest
*) - UMG set to release the Elton John and Eric Clapton SACDs

This was the height of public awareness for SACD. Just when the possibility of the format making the grade, and people were interested and going to Circuit City to try their Rolling Stone Magazine sampler SACD, Sony pulled the plug. The public went to Best Buy and asked about the format. Where are the titles? "We're sending them back. They're not making them anymore".

GRADE: D- - Why pull the plug after expending all of that money to get the product visible.

That's my only gripe.

 

[ArmyOfQuad]

Not to mention they didn't make a car player until way too late in the game.

 

[JonUrban]

PS - You can re-live the QQ excitement about the Rolling Stone Magazine SACD here.

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2256

 

[Jason]

3A) Sony drops format like a hot potato at the point of the near breakthrough point of the format, Christmas 2003. Why was it the breakthrough point for the format? Here's why:

*) - DSOTM (which was switched from being an EMI DVD-A release) gets press in regular newspapers and magazines.
*) - Bob Dylan box set released and gets press as well.
*) - Rolling Stone Magazine includes SACD in each issue along with contest
*) - UMG set to release the Elton John and Eric Clapton SACDs

This was the height of public awareness for SACD. Just when the possibility of the format making the grade, and people were interested and going to Circuit City to try their Rolling Stone Magazine sampler SACD, Sony pulled the plug. The public went to Best Buy and asked about the format. Where are the titles? "We're sending them back. They're not making them anymore".

GRADE: D- - Why pull the plug after expending all of that money to get the product visible.

That's my only gripe.

I agree.

I don't know the exact timing of the decision or who ultimately made it, whether it was one guy or a committee.

Looking back, though, I was naive as were many early adopters, who thought this would ever catch on and be the standard.

Steve Hoffman predicted back in 2000 or 2001 that within 5 years, EVERY new release would be multi-channel! He was basing that on the fact that surround systems in a box were only $500. Now they're only, what, $200, and it still doesn't make any difference: The general public is not interested in multi-channel audio.

 

[Bob Romano]

Hi Jason...

So, how long have you worked for Sony and in what capacity? IMO there is no way anyone would fight to the degree you have to clear Sony or any megacorp unles he/she had a personal stake in it. Come on fess up... believe it or not you are among friends here.

Bob

 

[Jason]

:woopie:woopie

Man! I guess I wasn't clever enough to disguise it! Yes, Sony pays me $840,000 a year to cover for them on audio forums.

 

[timbre4]

You'll stay busy from now on!

 

[spenceo]

:woopie:woopie

Man! I guess I wasn't clever enough to disguise it! Yes, Sony pays me $840,000 a year to cover for them on audio forums.

Finally.... a good laugh.

 

[Bonzodog]

Sony did not develop DSD technology.

It was first proposed in 1946.

It was first comercilized in the '80s by DBX.

At that time, there was a Sony F-1 VS DBX 700 battle going on, with Sony claiming 16 bit audio was better, DBX claiming 1 bit was better.

Sony's 16 bit PCM won out.

Later, Sony changed its mind.

Just to keep the record straight, Sony improved DSD, it did not invent it.

 

[Lucanu]

Sony did not develop DSD technology.

It was first proposed in 1946.

It was first comercilized in the '80s by DBX.

At that time, there was a Sony F-1 VS DBX 700 battle going on, with Sony claiming 16 bit audio was better, DBX claiming 1 bit was better.

Sony's 16 bit PCM won out.

Later, Sony changed its mind.

Just to keep the record straight, Sony improved DSD, it did not invent it.

What? 1946?
WOW! that's VERY interesting.

 

[rusinurbe]

Sony did not develop DSD technology.

It was first proposed in 1946.


Sony's 16 bit PCM won out.

Later, Sony changed its mind.

Just to keep the record straight, Sony improved DSD, it did not invent it.

Not to mention Sonys income from 16 Bit PCM is/was about to stop.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I certainly wish Sony had continued to try with SACD and if it had been my decision, that is exactly what would have happened. I don't have enough information to fault Sony for basically giving up when they did. It may have been after several years of enormous losses, there was no evidence to believe the end of the losses was in sight. The fact Blu-ray was on the horizon and the market doesn't seem to do well with two high quality formats and the cost to get Blu-ray and the PS3 airborn would be huge probably meant nothing more could be done to prop up SACD. The SACD losses for Sony may ultimately be small compared to the PS3 and Blu-ray losses so who knows what hindsight would indicate should have been done. It is all very sad from my point of view.

Chris

 

[atrocity]

3) Sony responded to every major consumer request. They a) added multi-channel; b) added backward compatibility

My possibly faulty memory says those weren't responses to consumer requests but things that Sony had said from the outset they planned to do. Perhaps things would have turned out differently had they waited to release titles until both of those had happened.

 

[winopener]

Steve Hoffman predicted back in 2000 or 2001 that within 5 years, EVERY new release would be multi-channel! He was basing that on the fact that surround systems in a box were only $500. Now they're only, what, $200, and it still doesn't make any difference: The general public is not interested in multi-channel audio.

Disagree.
The general public care first about their music - from the crappy Britney Spears to Berlioz - then to the system.
IF there was a STEADY AND CONTINUOUS flow of mch music - sacd or dvda - of top100 Billboard charts the general public would had a chance of join the mch bandwagon. No one did, so why complain that mch failed?
THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If someone want to do some maths, will be nice to see how many top100 titles in 1973/75 had a quad release. No need to compare the % with sacd/dvda.

 

[soundboy]

I certainly wish Sony had continued to try with SACD and if it had been my decision, that is exactly what would have happened.

I think Sony is still trying. Despite the talk of Sony abandoning the format, I see that it's still trying to keep SACD afloat. The recent release of car SACD players and the second Sony/Zenph Studio "re-performance" project (to be released in 2008 on multi-channel hybrid SACD) point to that fact. Let's face it, SACD becoming a mainstream medium is pretty much a fantasy by now. However, to say US Sony has abandoned SACD is false as well.

 

[timbre4]

Perhaps 'abandoned' is inaccurate; maybe kept alive in a cage underground is more to the point. Once in a while there is a fresh SACD sighting and then back in the cage it goes...

 

[winopener]

Honestly i've never seen articles about "Sony is quitting SACD" or smilar; i do think their actions speaks clear and loud enough... the big audiophile rave now is the "back to vinyl" movement, not sacd. And, funny enough, LPs are seen as "cool" even by youngsters...

 

[elroy]

Honestly i've never seen articles about "Sony is quitting SACD" or smilar; i do think their actions speaks clear and loud enough... the big audiophile rave now is the "back to vinyl" movement, not sacd. And, funny enough, LPs are seen as "cool" even by youngsters...

And that's *before* they try to read CD jackets with middle-aged eyes...

 

[JonUrban]

Honestly i've never seen articles about "Sony is quitting SACD" or smilar; i do think their actions speaks clear and loud enough... the big audiophile rave now is the "back to vinyl" movement, not sacd. And, funny enough, LPs are seen as "cool" even by youngsters...

Yet, look at their SACD website:

http://www.sonymusic.com/sacd/releaseschedule/index.html

Try and click on the ARTISTS or TITLES links, and all you get is a '404' error. Not a good sign...................