Who will replace Oppo?

[atrocity]

Its not like the copy protection schemes have done particularly well. Every protected format has been broken for both audio and video media. The copy protection schemes they use aren't even considered speed bumps any more.

My pedantic side has to point out that while it's certainly possible to copy SACD, doing so remains stubbornly reliant on a few very specific pieces of hardware.

I sure wish someone would figure out a universal way to do it with an off-the-shelf DVD drive!

 

[mandrix]

You can get one...all it takes is patience and some due diligence...and of course you have to pay the market price...once you get over your tendency to "bargain" hunt...you can find one...if you know how to shop on Ebay...there are good options...focus on the buyer's track record...look to see what he has sold in the past...not just his good comments on past sales...

Sure...but lately any "extra" money has been sucked up in home repairs, medicine, etc. That's the real problem, and I'm afraid it's going to take months to dig out of this hole and prices keep going up.....

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Sure...but lately any "extra" money has been sucked up in home repairs, medicine, etc. That's the real problem, and I'm afraid it's going to take months to dig out of this hole and prices keep going up.....

Well...this is just a hobby...other things in real life should come first

 

[atrocity]

Interesting conversation. I went fully digital around 12 years ago and disposed of all my CDs after ripping them. I discovered quad and became curious around two years later and started amassing decoded files for future use, but wasn't able to listen to them until five years ago with the purchase of a £30 Raspberry Pi, an Onkyo receiver and a server on which I store all the files.

Are you saying you can run a Pi into an Onkyo via HDMI and experience multichannel goodness without dropouts or other weirdness? I'm curious because I have two different Onkyo receivers and neither work reliably with ANY model of Pi. Given other HDMI issues with Onkyo, I've just always assumed there's some weird HDMI incompatibility.

I simply cannot fathom why anyone would put themselves through the hassle using a disc for digital music.

I largely agree, but streaming is one of those things I just flat-out didn't really get until I actually tried it. After I'd played around with it for a while, it made sense--in fact, I now consider it an essential part of my life--but prior to that as an abstract concept it frankly had very little appeal.

The other catch is that it's an enormous commitment for those of us with large collections. Once I decided to go all the way with it, it took me 18 months to get everything done. For me, things can quickly escalate from "This is interesting" to "This is what I want to do all the time now and there is nothing else that matters, go away!" but I can easily understand how normal people with actual lives would look at a project like that and view it as insurmountable.

Also, I think a lot of people tend to be happy to ignore stuff they bought years ago and haven't played in a long time, but having the albums that became obscure magically at my fingertips going forward was a big part of the appeal for me.

Now that I finally have reliable options for playing back streaming video, it would be nice to have all that online as well, but even ignoring the necessary time investment, the storage demands make it completely impractical with current technology.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Since you broached this subject...and you are one of my favorite posters...perhaps you can answer this....I wonder why they basically opened the flood gates to full access on these USB sticks they offer on the mega boxes...like the Grateful Dead USB stick...which the sellers on Ebay freely admit that they purchased the USB and only used it once to make a copy....I know they are trying to convey how "like new" the USB is....but they are also admitting they copied it...and to think they only made one copy is really suspect...IMO.....and perhaps I'm wrong about this but there appears to be no copy protection on these drives...is it because the price is high enough that the record companies agree to this....I'd love your opinion and correct me if my assumptions are wrong...

I can only speculate that it is due to one of two reasons:

1. They feel that the price is high enough and that their estimate of the amount of sharing that is going on still allows enough copies to be sold to make a decent profit.

or

2. They have given up on the idea of stopping the sharing, as there is no other form of copy protection that actually works anyway.

or

Both.

And in this case, wouldn't a good portion of the asking price be due to the collectable nature of the physical hardware and not just the music?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

My pedantic side has to point out that while it's certainly possible to copy SACD, doing so remains stubbornly reliant on a few very specific pieces of hardware.

I sure wish someone would figure out a universal way to do it with an off-the-shelf DVD drive!

That's true. And I think of all the dead and dying physical formats, SACD still has the most life left. It is the least copy prone, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone does eventually come up with an off the shelf solution.

And of course this only applies to SACD on disk. SACD downloads can easily be copied.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

You guys talk about storing files digitally.....I have 8TB solely for music storage on my main machine (only use about 4TB for reasons of Windows 10 pisses me off and tells me they are too full) lol,
I have probably 2TB of BD copied to my HTPC, and maybe 2TB of BD on wife's pc...I just put a new 2TB on hers a few months ago for more storage.
I have a separate 2TB disc I keep in a box, it gets swapped in place of the burner to back up SACD/DVDA/DTS. I don't have any great solutions, but there is a digital copy of each disc.

But what I want, what I really really want, is a brand new (or good used Oppo) machine newer and better than my BDP-80. In time.....

I'm curious to know why you want a new Oppo. What disks will you play on it? Is it because you like handling the disks, or do you feel the Oppo performs better, or is it something else?

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I can only speculate that it is due to one of two reasons:

1. They feel that the price is high enough and that their estimate of the amount of sharing that is going on still allows enough copies to be sold to make a decent profit.

or

2. They have given up on the idea of stopping the sharing, as there is no other form of copy protection that actually works anyway.

or

Both.

And in this case, wouldn't a good portion of the asking price be due to the collectable nature of the physical hardware and not just the music?

Well...IMO #1 is what I was thinking about..and they do restrict the number of copies....and although I agree with #2...I'm not sure the record companies are willing to give up entirely and there is some skill and software involved in copies...and the collectable aspect is surely a factor...and perhaps this a trial balloon of sorts...to gauge the interest in USB drives as a medium to sell...it certainly is cheaper... in the case of the Grateful Dead set ...to offer a USB vs 80 CDs would yield much more profit and less headaches in logistics....

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Are you saying you can run a Pi into an Onkyo via HDMI and experience multichannel goodness without dropouts or other weirdness? I'm curious because I have two different Onkyo receivers and neither work reliably with ANY model of Pi. Given other HDMI issues with Onkyo, I've just always assumed there's some weird HDMI incompatibility.

I've never tried, but I read about people using those Pi's all the time.

The other catch is that it's an enormous commitment for those of us with large collections. Once I decided to go all the way with it, it took me 18 months to get everything done. For me, things can quickly escalate from "This is interesting" to "This is what I want to do all the time now and there is nothing else that matters, go away!" but I can easily understand how normal people with actual lives would look at a project like that and view it as insurmountable.

Agreed. And this is the one downside I can think of. I have about 700 disks all together. It took about 6 months doing a handful at a time, pretty much every day, to rip them. I didn't get obsessive about it or anything. The DVD-As and DVD-Vs were ripped first, the Blurays next, then the CDs then the SACDs (which I am still doing, a few at a time, when I feel like it). I did get a few "are you doing that again?" comments from the little lady.

Also, I think a lot of people tend to be happy to ignore stuff they bought years ago and haven't played in a long time, but having the albums that became obscure magically at my fingertips going forward was a big part of the appeal for me.

That is the big advantage for me. The instant change from this album to that one without missing a beat or digging out a disk, or putting them away again.

Last night me and the Mrs listened to selections from Meatloaf (BOOH stereo and MC, to compare PBTDL), Dire Straits, Bob Seger, Alan Parsons, and finished up with some 5.1 Van Morrison. A few selections from each, all in an hour before dinner, all with on screen lyrics. I could never do that like that with disks.

EDIT: I was reminded that I also played selections from Berlin and Timbuck 3,,, Remember them? The Futures So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Well...IMO #1 is what I was thinking about..and they do restrict the number of copies....and although I agree with #2...I'm not sure the record companies are willing to give up entirely and there is some skill and software involved in copies...and the collectable aspect is surely a factor...and perhaps this a trial balloon of sorts...to gauge the interest in USB drives as a medium to sell...it certainly is cheaper... in the case of the Grateful Dead set ...to offer a USB vs 80 CDs would yield much more profit and less headaches in logistics....

So did they sell out the limited number of USB copies yet? If so I think we have the answer.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

So did they sell out the limited number of USB copies yet? If so I think we have the answer.

They(the official Grateful Dead distributor)sold out pretty quickly...and the fact that Guns and Roses has adopted this option...it's certainly an idea that's being tried by different companies....I just wonder how high the price point would have to be to get this option...because as you mentioned...there is the collectable factor...so to get real numbers... you would have to minimize that factor to see how many would buy for the reason of convenience...IMO this would strike a great balance...it would be good for the record companies....no disc costs and related logistical expenses...and for the customer that doesn't want or can't download...the USB stick would work...

 

[4-earredwonder]

Because we are old, ornery and demented.

And like the tactile sensation of a physical disc with real liner notes and our heads are not yet in the clouds!

 

[skherbeck]

I’ve thought about ripping all my CDs and selling the discs... years back a friend of mine did this... the thing is, at the time 128mB/sec (hope I got the units right) was considered good quality to the average Joe (this was during the Napster days), so this was what he ripped them too... I’m sure he regrets it now. If I were to rip my entire collection, how do I know now what would be the ideal format to rip them too, and would I regret it later. I think I’ll just keep buying bigger houses instead.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I’ve thought about ripping all my CDs and selling the discs... years back a friend of mine did this... the thing is, at the time 128mB/sec (hope I got the units right) was considered good quality to the average Joe (this was during the Napster days), so this was what he ripped them too... I’m sure he regrets it now. If I were to rip my entire collection, how do I know now what would be the ideal format to rip them too, and would I regret it later. I think I’ll just keep buying bigger houses instead.

I don't think you will have to buy a bigger house due to disc storage...because they won't be selling very many new ones(cds) in the future I was in my local Best Buy recently and I asked an employee where the music section was...and he said "oh the vinyl is over there"....when I asked about cds...he wasn't sure...so I did find them...and all that was left was about 50 or 60...and I was told once they were gone...there wouldn't be anymore...

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I’ve thought about ripping all my CDs and selling the discs... years back a friend of mine did this... the thing is, at the time 128mB/sec (hope I got the units right) was considered good quality to the average Joe (this was during the Napster days), so this was what he ripped them too... I’m sure he regrets it now. If I were to rip my entire collection, how do I know now what would be the ideal format to rip them too, and would I regret it later. I think I’ll just keep buying bigger houses instead.

Sounds like your friend was saving his CDs as MP3 files. MP3 is not an exact copy of what is on the CD, Its lossy.

Using a CD as an example, you would rip it to FLAC files or WAV files. CDs are 16 bit, 44.1 kHz stored as WAV. The copy you make will also be 16 bit, 44.1 kHz, Bit for bit, an exact copy of what is on the disk. Converting the WAV to FLAC just applies lossless compression that allows for a smaller file size without any data loss,

A future unknown format cant actually improve the resolution of the 16 bit, 44.1 kHz files you would have saved, in the same way it cant improve the resolution of the original CD, You might be able to take the data stream and enhance it somehow, but you would be able to do that with the copied files as well.

 

[4-earredwonder]

I don't think you will have to buy a bigger house due to disc storage...because they won't be selling very many new ones(cds) in the future I was in my local Best Buy recently and I asked an employee where the music section was...and he said "oh the vinyl is over there"....when I asked about cds...he wasn't sure...so I did find them...and all that was left was about 50 or 60...and I was told once they were gone...there wouldn't be anymore...

But Clinty, that's been the trend for the past 10 years. Was it Walmart a few years ago who flatly told Universal and other record conglomerates they wouldn't pay any more than $6 [or LESS] wholesale for RBCDs and if they didn't comply, Walmart said they'd just wipe out the music section and replace it with something else. And most selections in most of those non record stores were top 10 or 20 acts with hardly any jazz, classical or world music. BORING!

How could any store today compete with online retailers? When our local FYE closed a few years ago [it's now a liquor store], the inventory was pathetic and the salespeople dumb as . And I'm surprised Best Buy even carries vinyl. A big risk since you know they're not custom pressings but substandard pressings from the majors, with, I suspect, a high rate of returns for defective pressings!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I don't think you will have to buy a bigger house due to disc storage...because they won't be selling very many new ones(cds) in the future I was in my local Best Buy recently and I asked an employee where the music section was...and he said "oh the vinyl is over there"....when I asked about cds...he wasn't sure...so I did find them...and all that was left was about 50 or 60...and I was told once they were gone...there wouldn't be anymore...

Yeah, aint that a kick in the ass? They sell vinyl but not CDs.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Yeah, aint that a kick in the ass? They sell vinyl but not CDs.

But vinyl is now "cool"...and I would imagine the profit margin is very nice as well..

 

[4-earredwonder]

But vinyl is now "cool"...and I would imagine the profit margin is very nice as well..

If I want to be cool, I'll turn the AC up or move to the Antarctic!

And the irony, except for those 180/200g audiophile 'delights,' most vinyl being manufactured by the Majors are from 96/24 digital masters!

 

[himey]

I’ve thought about ripping all my CDs and selling the discs... years back a friend of mine did this... the thing is, at the time 128mB/sec (hope I got the units right) was considered good quality to the average Joe (this was during the Napster days), so this was what he ripped them too... I’m sure he regrets it now. If I were to rip my entire collection, how do I know now what would be the ideal format to rip them too, and would I regret it later. I think I’ll just keep buying bigger houses instead.

That was back when you could get real money for CDs. Makes zero sense (cents) today! Glad I only sold a few back then. All mine were ripped to APE and now are in FLAC.