Zappa - Over-Nite Sensation 50th (New Atmos & 5.1 mixes, plus Quad mix on Blu-Ray!)

[perzon57]

Please decipher the acronyms
Too early for code breaking

See post#155.

 

[Tres Discrete]

Rage Against The Machine and the "Random
Access Memories" album by Daft Punk

I am guessing those were streaming only?

 

[stachrech]

While I do like the Overnight Sensation Atmos mix, it didn't strike me as the best for 2023. So far the Harmony Codex and Feathers and Bones by Rodriguez Jr have gained that top spot. to my ears On the otehr hand, if one is purely speaking about classic remixes, then I could see how Overnight Sensation would rise to the top.

Definitely those two are the best ATMOS mixes 2023

 

[himey]

Definitely those two are the best ATMOS mixes 2023

They aren't my favorites because I don't like the music nearly as much as the titles I mentioned. The ones I mentioned not only have top notch mixes, but they are also albums I absolutely adore. Best and favorites are different things, although I will put this mix in the conversation of best mixes of the year too.

 

[fredblue]

I am guessing those were streaming only?

as of now, yes, although i'm hoping both might be released on Blu-ray someday

 

[Tres Discrete]

as of now, yes, although i'm hoping both might be released on Blu-ray someday

Me too if they are that good…since I am not a streamer…
Paul@SDE to the rescue (again)?!

 

[izgoblin]

I know that some of us were bugged by the volume fluctuations on the Waka/Wazoo Blu-ray in which the surround versions were authored super quiet and the stereo music on the menus were normal volume. This meant that if you didn't turn down your amp before it went back to the menu, you were blasted out by the unnecessary menu music. Are there any such problems on this one?

 

[bookofsaturdays]

I know that some of us were bugged by the volume fluctuations on the Waka/Wazoo Blu-ray in which the surround versions were authored super quiet and the stereo music on the menus were normal volume. This meant that if you didn't turn down your amp before it went back to the menu, you were blasted out by the unnecessary menu music. Are there any such problems on this one?

No menu music this time around thankfully, and I had no problems switching between the 5 different audio streams, all of them were almost equal in level from each other.

 

[jimfisheye]

So this is what the original quad mix sounded like!
I knew the mutilated copy of the (poorly) decoded vinyl that was shared around was bad. Turns out it was even worse than that. Basically listening to this quad mix for the very first time.

The 'modern' mix approach is stunning and shouldn't surprise me at all Frank being Frank. The soundstage has a front. A lot of the extended channel use is all about delivering dynamic punch. And we still have some awesome gratuitous 360 quad pans! (Enormously in 50/50)

I have to say the 7.1.4 remix doesn't quite hit like the remixes of Waka Jawaka and Grand Wazoo. Maybe the quad mix being so accomplished and punchy and listening to that first raised the bar too high? The 12 channel mix is definitely good! I do hear some mix elements that were buried before. Things that were layered that now have individual detail perceivable. The gratuitous panning is still in place and a lot of other details that often get lost in remixes is perceived and preserved - this was a genuine effort! (Unlike say, that Ten Years After Space & Time remix.) But the Atmos mix might just end up an addendum to the original quad for this one. Some of the big reverbs in the remix (like Slime) have a pronounced midrange honk vs the originals. These are the biggest mix changes.

 

[ctoelle]

Where's the poll for this? Utterly fantastic 5.1 mix here!

 

[sjcorne]

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...te-sensation-blu-ray-audio-dolby-atmos.35112/

 

[ergalthema]

The Waka/Wazoo Atmos mix was too much 'all speakers at all times' for my taste. I like this O-NS Atmos mix a bit better, but that is probably helped by the music being less busy than W/W.

After decades of listening to surround music, I've realized I generally prefer the rhythm section and main melody/vocal in the front channels (unless going for an inspired effect). That said, I absolutely love atmospheric and special effects in the surrounds.

When a mono guitar part is panned equally in all speakers, that doesn't make sense to me. My brain handles phantom-center in stereo mixes just fine, but I'm not sure the human auditory system can truly make sense of the exact same sound coming from all directions of an Atmos mix. In reality, the only way that would physically be possible would be to have an array of guitar speakers surrounding someone - and that just doesn't make sense musically except for a very special effect - but I seem to encounter that kind of thing regularly in Atmos mixes. It just distracts me. If the mono guitar was, for example, panned to the left rear with reverb in the other channels - or doubled in another channel - or had some kind of swirly effect in other channels, etc. I'd be fine with any of that.

Since someone mentioned RATM, I just listened to a couple songs in Atmos (will finish soon). I like it for the most part, but it also has more things panned middle-center (all speakers) than I would prefer. There would be so much more impact if the main parts were up front during the verses and then the surround panning would kick in during heavier parts.

I feel like these Atmos mixes would be better for a large room at a party with people mingling than for someone sitting in a home theater sweet spot hoping for a cohesive soundstage. That said, I really enjoy about half of the O-NS Atmos mix. The backing singers in the surrounds, the Fifty-Fifty effects swirling around, the "Reety-awrighty, he da zomby woof" in the upper left height channel, etc. - and the overall fidelity and clarity is a fresh, fun, new experience of the album.

Edit: After listening to all of RATM, I see that they approached most of the songs similarly. It was kind of interesting, but I doubt I'll want to listen to that Atmos mix again. The crash cymbals in the rears are strange to me. I could hear editing that I never noticed before. There seemed to be unintentional weirdness at times - like subtle volume or panning shifts that didn't make sense (I'm curious if data compression has anything to do with it). In Freedom, there is a snare drum fill before the guitar solo around 2;08 - the snare suddenly dropped out almost completely!

 

[himey]

The Waka/Wazoo Atmos mix was too much 'all speakers at all times' for my taste. I like this O-NS Atmos mix a bit better, but that is probably helped by the music being less busy than W/W.

After decades of listening to surround music, I've realized I generally prefer the rhythm section and main melody/vocal in the front channels (unless going for an inspired effect). That said, I absolutely love atmospheric and special effects in the surrounds.

When a mono guitar part is panned equally in all speakers, that doesn't make sense to me. My brain handles phantom-center in stereo mixes just fine, but I'm not sure the human auditory system can truly make sense of the exact same sound coming from all directions of an Atmos mix. In reality, the only way that would physically be possible would be to have an array of guitar speakers surrounding someone - and that just doesn't make sense musically except for a very special effect - but I seem to encounter that kind of thing regularly in Atmos mixes. It just distracts me. If the mono guitar was, for example, panned to the left rear with reverb in the other channels - or doubled in another channel - or had some kind of swirly effect in other channels, etc. I'd be fine with any of that.

Since someone mentioned RATM, I just listened to a couple songs in Atmos (will finish soon). I like it for the most part, but it also has more things panned middle-center (all speakers) than I would prefer. There would be so much more impact if the main parts were up front during the verses and then the surround panning would kick in during heavier parts.

I feel like these Atmos mixes would be better for a large room at a party with people mingling than for someone sitting in a home theater sweet spot hoping for a cohesive soundstage. That said, I really enjoy about half of the O-NS Atmos mix. The backing singers in the surrounds, the Fifty-Fifty effects swirling around, the "Reety-awrighty, he da zomby woof" in the upper left height channel, etc. - and the overall fidelity and clarity is a fresh, fun, new experience of the album.

Can you post a couple examples of mixes you consider excellent, that have all the attributes you mention?

 

[ergalthema]

Can you post a couple examples of mixes you consider excellent, that have all the attributes you mention?

I enjoyed the recent PF Animals. I haven't listened to Sea Change in a while, but it was always kind of a paragon for me. Yoshimi is a favorite for extreme ridiculous mixing. Of course, those are all 5.1.

I think the only Atmos mix that wowed me so far was Snarky Puppy. It's not my personal taste in music, but the recording and mix is very pleasant. I've heard Atmos mixes that I liked just fine (Deerhoof, Booka Shade, Hans Zimmer, Beatles, etc.), but not many standouts for me yet. I was a huge Zappa fan in my teens, so I really want to like the Atmos mixes. I realize it's mostly just my personal taste, so I'm grateful if I enjoy some parts of the releases. Maybe other people enjoy the parts I don't like so much.

Another way to describe my preference: If Atmos is a sphere, it's like I want things panned on the surface of the sphere (each instrument in only one or two adjacent speakers), not inside the sphere (the instrument in all speakers).

 

[himey]

the instrument in all speakers

Just because an instrument is mixed to multiple speakers, doesn't mean it sounds like it from the sweet spot. Stem mixes might be your thing, but I don't like them.

 

[ergalthema]

Just because an instrument is mixed to multiple speakers, doesn't mean it sounds like it from the sweet spot. Stem mixes might be your thing, but I don't like them.

As an audio engineer, I'm only familiar with the term "Stem mixes" meaning instruments grouped together (not relevant to my posts). Are you using the term in some other way? The closest term for what I was referring to would be "hard panning" of instruments (but that's not quite what I mean).

I would think there is some aspect of HRTF study that demonstrates how we can easily localize a phantom center in front of us but not, for example, between the right front and right rear speaker (or between all speakers.

 

[Guy Robinson]

They aren't my favorites because I don't like the music nearly as much as the titles I mentioned. The ones I mentioned not only have top notch mixes, but they are also albums I absolutely adore. Best and favorites are different things, although I will put this mix in the conversation of best mixes of the year too.

Yeah, I thought Harmony Codex was a terrible album musically.

 

[himey]

Yeah, I thought Harmony Codex was a terrible album musically.

I have only listened to a song or two and neither stood out. There have been enough great releases, I just haven't got around to listening to them all. I don't listen much in the summer months, so I am playing catch up now, and it has been great with so many to choose from. Eventually I will give it a proper listen, and I wouldn't be surprised if it grows on me.

 

[Guy Robinson]

Eventually I will give it a proper listen, and I wouldn't be surprised if it grows on me.

Good luck to you.

 

[beerking]

Frank is in de house...wahoo.