ELP Emerson Lake & Palmer Cataloge in 5.1 Surround

[JonUrban]

ssully,

actually, since I do like localized instruments in the mix, I did enjoy hearing the bass so exposed on Lucky Man. It does allow the listener the ability to hear something with a clarity and isolation not available in a 2 channel mix. I just found it odd to be in the center. No big deal. On the whole, however, I still prefer the SW "Lucky Man"

As for Tarkus, I cannot speak to that, as I have to admit never owning the original, not being a huge ELP fan. So I had nothing to judge the mix against, as it was basically the first time I'd heard it all the way through.

At any rate, it's all behind us. I look at the projects as a victory, however, since we got 5.1 mixes AND DVD-Audio Hi-Rez, which would not have been the case without SW's insistence.

Time to move on to the next two!

 

[proufo]

The BSS 5.1 vocals are typically L+R, which localizes perceptually to center, just like it did in old fashioned stereo...

'cept when they do the drastic centering in

We've got thrills and........................We've got thrills and
..................................shocks...................................

Cool!

 

[Quad Linda]

I like SW's Tarkus mix. I got Tarkus when it came out. This is my 4th copy. Their best album.

 

[jimfisheye]

I happen to like things like lead vocal in the center speaker

Oof nothing kills a surround mix for me more than this!

But yes, to each his own.

 

[tarkusnj]

As I've stated before, I have Plogue upmixes of ELP S\T, Tarkus and Trilogy. I have shelved the SW mixes and now only listen to the upmixes which are far superior. Very disappointing these releases were. Keith thought they were doing a good job but I doubt he ever listened to them. And vocals isolated in the center channel is not the way to go plus the surround treatment was mediocre at best.

 

[Ranasakawa]

A lot of people also 'like' the ELP 5.1 mixes by SW, I'm one of them.

 

[0tto]

Whereas I find it far more engaging that SW's ELP surround mixes.

i was in the same boat, when it was released.
since then many many other releases was done, better and worse than BSS and so my perception
of surround had been changed as well.
flying from speaker to speaker, Keith's Moog do not impress me anymore. it's just unrealistic, sort
of like circus. i'm ok. with mobile instruments movement, but when by default static stuff begin to
fly - it's just weird and fake.
sonically BSS i found to be accented on the keyboards and synths, when rest was pushed far into
background. bass exagerated in it's lower register, which isn't much enjoyable with set of full range
speakers, utilizes 12" woofers and drums/percussions way too short to have any prominency in the
overal sounds picture. Karl with his skill as a drumer, deserves more place in the mix.
on contrary, SW mix well balanced in regards of all musicians and instruments and sonically is much
more open and enjoyable.

 

[tarkusnj]

i was in the same boat, when it was released.
since then many many other releases was done, better and worse than BSS and so my perception
of surround had been changed as well.
flying from speaker to speaker, Keith's Moog do not impress me anymore. it's just unrealistic, sort
of like circus. i'm ok. with mobile instruments movement, but when by default static stuff begin to
fly - it's just weird and fake.
sonically BSS i found to be accented on the keyboards and synths, when rest was pushed far into
background. bass exagerated in it's lower register, which isn't much enjoyable with set of full range
speakers, utilizes 12" woofers and drums/percussions way too short to have any prominency in the
overal sounds picture. Karl with his skill as a drumer, deserves more place in the mix.
on contrary, SW mix well balanced in regards of all musicians and instruments and sonically is much
more open and enjoyable.

I was wondering..how many of you actually saw ELP perform BSS in surround, not to mention recording it live like I have. And Ranasakawa, is that Jimi Hendrix as your "avatar"? How many times did you see him live in concert?

 

[Scott M4]

I was wondering..how many of you actually saw ELP perform BSS in surround, not to mention recording it live like I have. And Ranasakawa, is that Jimi Hendrix as your "avatar"? How many times did you see him live in concert?

Actually Jimi is relevant here as the Electric Ladyland album sure had some crazy un"natural" panning. I find that fun if used stratigically, so swirling some synths about is also A-OK by me, whenever appropriate.

 

[tarkusnj]

Actually Jimi is relevant here as the Electric Ladyland album sure had some crazy un"natural" panning. I find that fun if used stratigically, so swirling some synths about is also A-OK by me, whenever appropriate.

It's not an issue of "...swirling some synths..."on the BSS surround mix but what it actually sounded like in ELP's LIVE surround sound performances on the BSS tour. Nobody here saw at least one of those shows???

 

[FredSoles]

You are a broken record. Get over the skip

 

[0tto]

I was wondering..how many of you actually saw ELP perform BSS in surround, not to mention recording it live like I have. And Ranasakawa, is that Jimi Hendrix as your "avatar"? How many times did you see him live in concert?

i never been to ELP show and have no clue on how live surround performance is comparable to 5.1 presentation on the disc.
whatever, my objective in this case is more toward to listening the music, than to analyzing sound effects. particularly when
music isn't some club/dance genre but tend (or even just pretend) to be sort of academic. i can understand memorabilia,
attached to the sound in form of abstract effects, from 60th and early 70th, and related to psychedelia of the era, but it
does nothing to me. so, it's just my personal view. to be honest, i don't think there are too many of those, who was thrilled
in the past live ELP shows and still continue they journey as of today into the world of surround sound mediums.

 

[Scott M4]

I saw the ELP Works tour at the Montreal Olympic Stadium with the orchestra but in such a vast space the surround didn't have any magic for me that I can remember. Pink Floyd handled it better there.

 

[tarkusnj]

I saw the ELP Works tour at the Montreal Olympic Stadium with the orchestra but in such a vast space the surround didn't have any magic for me that I can remember. Pink Floyd handled it better there.

Well, I have to enlighten you but ELP never did another tour in surround after 1974. It seems nobody on this thread knows what ELP were all about during their PRIME touring years from 1971-1974.
If you didn't see them LIVE from 1971-1974, don't comment on their live performances, I don't want to hear your opinions please. I personally taped them live since 1971 and have listened to their performances over and over way back then before the internet began trading these recordings in the 90's.

 

[Scott M4]

Well, I have to enlighten you but ELP never did another tour in surround after 1974. It seems nobody on this thread knows what ELP were all about during their PRIME touring years from 1971-1974.
If you didn't see them LIVE from 1971-1974, don't comment on their live performances, I don't want to hear your opinions please. I personally taped them live since 1971 and have listened to their performances over and over way back then before the internet began trading these recordings in the 90's.

Thanks. That would explain why the surround mix didn't do much for me, if it wasn't in surround. Why the snippy tone about it?

 

[EMB]

Well, let's not be snippy, at least there is a fair share of ELP MC available.

Their debut will always be my favorite, I think for Greg Lake he got to expand on what he was trying to do in King Crimson but had difficulty with given all the other talents in the band. Of course Mr. Emerson, with rare exception, can overwhelm any recording on which he appears, if allowed. It's all overblown and rather silly, but there is a charm in that, and this one's endearing, the only pity being not all the tracks were available for remixing.

TARKUS I've never been so keen about, not sure why beyond the fact that it seems like a concept in need of substance, but then prog-rock was always about noodling and excess, on the main. Still, Wilson's 5.1 mix gives it a bit more weight than I'd expected, and it IS a fun listen for what it is.

The DVD-A BSS mix is loads of fun, maybe because while it's conventional most of the way, on occasion it gets very playful and gimmicky with the mix--which I like, if there isn't a lot of it, which is why it works for me here. And it's hard not to laugh out loud at those lyrics for "Still...You Turn Me On"...it's nice to think that the band was in on the joke, that it's just music for fun and all that. IMO, this one doesn't need a 'new edition' and yet another 5.1 mix when this mix works just fine. Bring on the bonus cuts!

TRILOGY is one to look forward to, pretty solid, has its one surprise hit, which in 5.1 could be pretty neat. ELP's music is just the kind 5.1 can exploit, as BSS proved. Let's hope it gets a nice, playful treatment.

ED

 

[strat54]

I was wondering..how many of you actually saw ELP perform BSS in surround, not to mention recording it live like I have. And Ranasakawa, is that Jimi Hendrix as your "avatar"? How many times did you see him live in concert?

Even though you are not talking to me, let me just barge in, you know I saw them twice in surround, MSG in NYC ( the Silent Night show) and Roosevelt Field in Jersey City ( I was there in the storm and the rain date). Two historic shows, and yes I was happy the DVD-A sounded very similar to what I heard in concert, Kellogg got it right. I wish he was doing more of them.
This was my original post about MSG.
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...AD-SURGERY-DVD-A&p=98681&highlight=#post98681

 

[timbre4]

I saw them live on Feb 21st, 1974 and it was an amazing memorable event. I recognized sound system designer Bill Hough standing by the mixing desk looking at the stage. Despite my only being 14, he did speak to me for a few minutes. He mentioned digital delay lines as something very new they were using. Bill also mentioned that "a Scully Metrotec 24 track is backstage to take down every show." Back Door (ptoduced by Carl Palmer) opened the show.

Given that so many shows were officially recorded, Welcome Back should have sounded better IMHO.

As moderator, I invite members to post their rememberances from any era. Emerson, Lake & Powell in1986 was terrific too.

 

[strat54]

I recognized sound system designer Bill Hough standing by the mixing desk looking at the stage. Bill also mentioned that "a Scully Metrotec 24 track is backstage to take down every show." Given that so many shows were officially recorded, Welcome Back should have sounded better IMHO.

Don't tell me that. It is so frustrating to me that mountains of historic multitracks are sitting in vaults or destroyed because greedy record company fatheads don't know what to do with them, or they don't want to spend a dime to get a product together.

 

[tarkusnj]

Don't tell me that. It is so frustrating to me that mountains of historic multitracks are sitting in vaults or destroyed because greedy record company fatheads don't know what to do with them, or they don't want to spend a dime to get a product together.

Ask Carl Palmer about that sound system and he will tell you that it was not actually quad surround and the band didn't really care about that setup and just did it for the fans enjoyment. But then again CP is..well, nevermind.
And mountains of multitracks from that tour sitting in vaults? Probably never were made to begin with. The band had no clue what they should be doing and ditto with their management. They have no input whatsoever into these surround mixes like I have said nor do they care or even know that they are being done.