ELP Emerson Lake & Palmer Cataloge in 5.1 Surround

[rtbluray]

tarkusnj, I am not wanting to hammer you for your opinion. They aren't my favorite mixes either. But, I believe you are misinterpreting SW's words.



He is saying he doesn't love the ELP albums after for "ELP" and "Tarkus". He does care for those albums, which is why he accepted the job of remixing them.

At least... that is how I interpret his words.

I honestly do not believe Steven Wilson when he says he's not remixing anymore ELP records because he doesn't love them. I think he would've remixed "Trilogy" and "Brain Salad Surgery" but I think there are other factors influencing his decision to not remix anymore ELP records, like time, or maybe a falling out with Greg or Keith or whomever was the band supervisor for these remixes (ie. "Unknown Ballad" or the Alternate Tracklistings)

He said this a few months ago:

At this stage no-one has asked me to be involved in any further ELP remixes. I suspect that a lot will depend on how well received these first 2 are. My personal policy is only do albums that I'm genuinely a fan of, so that would rule out anything after BSS anyway.

 

[tarkusnj]

I honestly do not believe Steven Wilson when he says he's not remixing anymore ELP records because he doesn't love them. I think he would've remixed "Trilogy" and "Brain Salad Surgery" but I think there are other factors influencing his decision to not remix anymore ELP records, like time, or maybe a falling out with Greg or Keith or whomever was the band supervisor for these remixes (ie. "Unknown Ballad" or the Alternate Tracklistings)

Trust me on this one- neither Keith, Greg, or Carl have ANY input on these remixes/remasters nor do they even care which is the difference between ELP and the Tull & King Crimson re-issues. Tull and KC releases sounded great, the SW ELP mixes sucked.

 

[peterzach]

I like the job SW did on the ELP's and was glad to read that more albums are being done by Jakko. This is a total win/win for us as we get more surrounds being done and as SW said Jakko will do a good job with them and hopefully if the albums are well received then Jakko gets more surround work going his way and like I said this is a win/win in my books.

peter

 

[tarkusnj]

I like the job SW did on the ELP's and was glad to read that more albums are being done by Jakko. This is a total win/win for us as we get more surrounds being done and as SW said Jakko will do a good job with them and hopefully if the albums are well received then Jakko gets more surround work going his way and like I said this is a win/win in my books.

peter

The problem is that Jakko is doing Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery. From a marketing standpoint, why would they be be releasing an album that has been released in two surround formats over the last eleven years? I have everything in every format and someone like me MIGHT purchase another version of BSS in surround. Maybe they think the new version will be found (somehow) by ELP fans that never purchased the first surround mixes. What a bad decision on their part, whoever "they" are.

 

[rtbluray]

The problem is that Jakko is doing Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery. From a marketing standpoint, why would they be be releasing an album that has been released in two surround formats over the last eleven years? I have everything in every format and someone like me MIGHT purchase another version of BSS in surround. Maybe they think the new version will be found (somehow) by ELP fans that never purchased the first surround mixes. What a bad decision on their part, whoever "they" are.

I don't think it's a bad idea at all. While the current 5.1 surround mix of BSS is great IMO, I think the original stereo mix is the weakest of the four great ELP albums and I think if they're gonna go through the trouble of doing a new stereo mix, they may as well do a new 5.1 mix while they're at it. Who knows? They might include both 5.1 mixes on the release, or maybe this new one is so good that the old mix isn't even worth the merit anymore. Plus as you pointed out before, the current 5.1 mix is very difficult to find nowadays for a convenient price.

These two surround mixes, along with new surround mixes from Steven for King Crimson, Jethro Tull, and XTC (and now possibly Gentle Giant) will certainly make for a great year.

Now who's ready for Steven or Jakko to remix the YES catalogue in 5.1?!

 

[LizardKing]

These two surround mixes, along with new surround mixes from Steven for King Crimson, Jethro Tull, and XTC (and now possibly Gentle Giant) will certainly make for a great year.

Now who's ready for Steven or Jakko to remix the YES catalogue in 5.1?!

Me me me!!!

Can't wait for Trilogy (and Gentle Giant) - and I've dreamed of more Yes coming out in 5.1.

 

[tarkusnj]

I don't think it's a bad idea at all. While the current 5.1 surround mix of BSS is great IMO, I think the original stereo mix is the weakest of the four great ELP albums and I think if they're gonna go through the trouble of doing a new stereo mix, they may as well do a new 5.1 mix while they're at it. Who knows? They might include both 5.1 mixes on the release, or maybe this new one is so good that the old mix isn't even worth the merit anymore. Plus as you pointed out before, the current 5.1 mix is very difficult to find nowadays for a convenient price.
T

I guess you never heard the Brain Salad Surgery Ultimate Edition (stereo)

 

[0tto]

Tull and KC releases sounded great, the SW ELP mixes sucked.

really don't see any reasons for your negativity about 5.1 mixes of ELPs by SW.
i'm quite happy with mixes and sonic for what it worth due to age of original
recording and line-up of musicians involved. you cannot jump over your head and
3 musicians can provided only as much of polyphony as they could. trust me, there
not as much material to manipulate it into 5 point of sound location and i'm pretty
sure SW and anyone else, who will continue re-mix of ELP catalog, had and will have
hard time to do any better than he did with first 2

They might include both 5.1 mixes on the release, or maybe this new one is so good that the old mix isn't even worth the merit anymore.

i'm quite in doubt that Sony will pay to Warner just to utilize old 5.1 mix of BSS for
their own release.

 

[user 1679]

The problem is that Jakko is doing Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery.

Do we know that *for sure*??? The DGM news bit just quotes the interview, and there Steven said "the next two..." no titles mentioned - he could mean Pictures and Trilogy and DGM's bit is just an assumption?

 

[Scott M4]

"Yes" to the Yes catalog in 5.1

 

[tarkusnj]

really don't see any reasons for your negativity about 5.1 mixes of ELPs by SW.
i'm quite happy with mixes and sonic for what it worth due to age of original
recording and line-up of musicians involved. you cannot jump over your head and
3 musicians can provided only as much of polyphony as they could. trust me, there
not as much material to manipulate it into 5 point of sound location and i'm pretty
sure SW and anyone else, who will continue re-mix of ELP catalog, had and will have
hard time to do any better than he did with first 2


i'm quite in doubt that Sony will pay to Warner just to utilize old 5.1 mix of BSS for
their own release.

The same 3 musicians had an album called "Brain Salad Surgery". I don't want to get into an argument over the first SW ELP releases as I have already been criticized for my opinions on those two so let's move on.

 

[rtbluray]

Do we know that *for sure*??? The DGM news bit just quotes the interview, and there Steven said "the next two..." no titles mentioned - he could mean Pictures and Trilogy and DGM's bit is just an assumption?

You're right about that. I honestly don't care what the next two are. One of them has to be "Trilogy" no matter what, right? Cause no matter if they're going in chronological order of studio albums or all albums in general, "Trilogy" will be one of them. which will complete my collection of the four great ELP albums in 5.1 surround!
Whether or not they even decide to remix the live albums, I honestly won't even care. And even if they don't we've already got great deluxe edition of Pictures and Welcome Back My Friends.

 

[tarkusnj]

You're right about that. I honestly don't care what the next two are. One of them has to be "Trilogy" no matter what, right? Cause no matter if they're going in chronological order of studio albums or all albums in general, "Trilogy" will be one of them. which will complete my collection of the four great ELP albums in 5.1 surround!
Whether or not they even decide to remix the live albums, I honestly won't even care. And even if they don't we've already got great deluxe edition of Pictures and Welcome Back My Friends.

It has been stated that Trilogy and BSS are the next two.
http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=4075

 

[mch007]

It has been stated that Trilogy and BSS are the next two.
http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=4075

ok, but he is not doing them...

 

[elmer]

Steven Wilson announced during a recent interview that Jakko Jakszyk will be handling the surround remixes for Trilogy & BSS. It's a very in depth interview - check it out here;

http://www.innerviews.org/inner/wilson2.html

 

[0tto]

The same 3 musicians had an album called "Brain Salad Surgery".

i do have BSS DVD-A for many years. it's ok. solid work but honestly, haven't found too much to be excited
about the mix. in regards of fidelity of the sound i definitely gave preference to these new but nevertheless
everyone to their own.

 

[ssully]

i do have BSS DVD-A for many years. it's ok. solid work but honestly, haven't found too much to be excited
about the mix. in regards of fidelity of the sound i definitely gave preference to these new but nevertheless
everyone to their own.

Whereas I find it far more engaging that SW's ELP surround mixes.

 

[tarkusnj]

Whereas I find it far more engaging that SW's ELP surround mixes.

That's for DAMN sure!

 

[JonUrban]

To each his own. I myself like the SW mixes, because I happen to like things like lead vocal in the center speaker, and background vocals in the rear. I do not like the bass guitar in the center channel, to me that's really an odd choice.

However, everyone can have their own opinion. And I am no authority on ELP by any means.

 

[ssully]

To each his own. I myself like the SW mixes, because I happen to like things like lead vocal in the center speaker, and background vocals in the rear. I do not like the bass guitar in the center channel, to me that's really an odd choice.

However, everyone can have their own opinion. And I am no authority on ELP by any means.

The BSS 5.1 vocals are typically L+R, which localizes perceptually to center, just like it did in old fashioned stereo...

Any low bass, of course, is nonlocalizable, so what you're hearing coming from the center are the mid/upper bass and overtones from the bass. And FWIW, bass guitar's mostly but not the only thing in the center -- some synth shows up there too, and (i seem to recall) the occasional vocal.

(And besides, bass guitar in a single channel is an incredible boon to bass players who want to learn Lake's parts. I've upgraded my own transcriptions considerably )

I respect SW's prowess but his conception of Tarkus still sounds very underpowered to me -- the antithesis of Eddie Offord's. I don't think in the end he was the right guy to remix ELP ...and apparently he agrees.