Death of Blu-Ray?

[timbre4]

Then a funnier thing happened.... people started buying them again!

Good grief.

It's not that linear; there's a gap of 15 YEARS in between the two trends.

That's enough time for a new generation to embrace MP3 as their standard and then have trendy friends with martinis and cigars turn them on to vinyl.

For the most part it's NOT the same people returning to the format; "CDs are handy and they sound good, why would I want to dick with vinyl again?"

 

[BananaSlug]

As I remember it (and I was in high school, so I may be wrong) was that for years everyone was talking about the end of vinyl. You just don't hear that sentiment about DVD. I'm not saying Blu-ray is done or anything, just that I don't feel the same inevitable change from DVD to Blu-ray coming that I felt during the transition to CD. Chris may be right, perhaps we'll have both formats existing side by side for years.

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

Wanna get people to buy Blu-Ray?
Do what HD-DVD was starting to do...
BD on one side / DVD on the other.
When I have a BD player available, I can play it.
When in another room where HD isn't available...
Use same disc, switch sides.

No one wants to buy 2 copies of every movie.
2 on one disc, or even a BD & DVD in the same case as Disney
has done with some of their movies, might kick BD in the arse.

-Bob

 

[BananaSlug]

No one wants to buy 2 copies of every movie.
2 on one disc, or even a BD & DVD in the same case as Disney
has done with some of their movies, might kick BD in the arse.

-Bob

What they really ought to do is buy me a bigger tv and then I will definitely buy a blu-ray player!

 

[BlarJotunn]

Wanna get people to buy Blu-Ray?
Do what HD-DVD was starting to do...
BD on one side / DVD on the other.

That seems like a really good idea to me. I can't figure out why they haven't done it yet. Maybe they're hoping to phase out DVD completely and they're afraid backwards compatibility would send the wrong message? I've really enjoyed those double sided HD-DVDs. You can watch the HD side at home but you can still take it over to someone's place who doesn't have a player yet.

 

[westgate]

"That seems like a really good idea to me. I can't figure out why they haven't done it yet."

too $ey.

 

[JonUrban]

It seems to me that if they can be putting those "digital" version of films in the case with both DVDs and BD's, then they could easily put a DVD in with the Blu-Ray and be done, however, they are probably worried that people will buy the BD and sell the DVD that came in the package, thus killing a potential DVD sale.

Still, it only makes one irritated to think back to the '3 royalites on an SACD/DVD-A' problem, when a freaking MOVIE in HD can be sold for $25 with a BD movie, a DVD, and a digital copy, all in the same case.

 

[LB-V]

To the best of my understanding, there is only a very limited selection of music only BD's out there. From that perspective, I have to assume we are bascially talking about movies and music concerts / productions.

Might be a litte off topic, but just curious about how many folks actually buy their discs? I am signed up for the Blockbuster monthly movie mail rental deal, and it works out great for movies. I own a few music DVD's and plan to buy more (BD as this point), but in reality, I am generally not interested in buying the discs. I have even considered renting the music concert BD's before buying. Unless I really enjoy the disc (like Roy Orbson Balck and White Night or Farewell Tour I, Eagles), probably will not buy. I can watch and listen to those kinds of discs over and over and over.

If there was a wide selection of music only BD's, that would be a different story. It probably boils down to the type of collector we are and how we enjoy our music, our collection and our gear. At this point, I am not the type to consider buying as a first thought, regardless of medium.

 

[El Guapo]

Wanna get people to buy Blu-Ray?
Do what HD-DVD was starting to do...
BD on one side / DVD on the other.
When I have a BD player available, I can play it.
When in another room where HD isn't available...
Use same disc, switch sides.

Personally, I couldn't care less for the DVD version that comes in such a package. On the contrary: I always felt somehow cheated out of monay for having to pay for a DVD version on top of the HD DVD I really wanted (remember: the Combo discs were considerably more expensive). When I buy a movie in HD I don't ever want to watch the SD version again!

But I'm not really representing the avarage customer, I guess. I think such a scheme of selling both versions in a package will only leverage BD sales if you can't buy a regular DVD-only version anymore! If you already have a Blu-ray player you'll by the BD version and not the DVD version. But if you only have a DVD player you might think about getting a Blu-ray player if it's cheap enough and you find that you already have some BDs in your collection "by accident"...

Best regards,
Oliver

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

Personally, I couldn't care less for the DVD version that comes in such a package. On the contrary: I always felt somehow cheated out of monay for having to pay for a DVD version on top of the HD DVD I really wanted (remember: the Combo discs were considerably more expensive). When I buy a movie in HD I don't ever want to watch the SD version again!

But I'm not really representing the avarage customer, I guess. I think such a scheme of selling both versions in a package will only leverage BD sales if you can't buy a regular DVD-only version anymore! If you already have a Blu-ray player you'll by the BD version and not the DVD version. But if you only have a DVD player you might think about getting a Blu-ray player if it's cheap enough and you find that you already have some BDs in your collection "by accident"...

Best regards,
Oliver

Yes, but not everyone has a BD player in every room in the house
(or in their vans etc) and the combos arent THAT much more expensive.
At least not as expensive as two versions on two formats in two separate cases.

I have one HDTV and one BD player (and an HD-DVD) to go with it.
(For now)
I have 4 other TVs with standard DVD players attached.
So I have to buy 2 copies of each movie (or a BD copy of a DVD I
already have) to play elsewhere in the house?

Thank heavens for upconverting!
My BD player upconverts DVDs to 1020.
It won't look nowhere as good as a BD original but for the mass market,
at least it doesn't make your collection obsolete.
At least for now.

We're talking pushing BD into homes.
Not a mass BD takeover that will make people toss their DVDs.
We all know that at this point in time, that aint happenin'!

I own a few BD movies, but I'm only interested in some of the classics.
I will buy Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Gone With The Wind, Ten Commandments etc.
But Borat in HD is NOT one of my must haves!

-B

 

[atrocity]

Since LDs and DVDs use different picture technologies, which one is better becomes more of a matter of opinion. Some people prefer the softer analog picture of LDs, while others prefer the higher resolution lossy digitally encoded and compressed DVDs. With BD vs DVD, they are both digital; Blu-Ray is the same thing just much better. LDs have 400 lines of picture, and DVDs bested that with 480 lines, but also introduced new problems with compression. Blu-Ray has 1080 lines. DVDs are better on paper than Laserdiscs, but even then only slightly, and with actual releases it varies greatly by film and by which flaws bother viewers more.

"...which flaws bother users more" is very relevant to my situation, I think. I bought my first laserdisc player in September of 1984 after CED went under. I was expecting perfection after all the skipping and hiss-pumping of CED, but instead I got "barber poles", "helicoptoring" and exactly the same hiss-pumping I got with CED.

As the technology progressed and CLV quietly became CAA, the barber poles went away and instead crosstalk showed up to one degree or another as wavy lines. Analog sound finally started getting a lot more reliable, but by then it was largely obsolete as they figured out how to stick 16/44.1 digital onto the discs.

When DVD was announced and people started freaking out about the compression, I expected the worst, and reviews of early test discs seemed to bear that out. By that point, laserdisc really had their quality control act together and I never seemed to have any complaints about new discs. DVD seemed unnecessary at best and, based on what I was reading, at worst a serious step down in quality.

Then I actually saw one playing in a store. I didn't last very long before giving in and buying a player. Even on my circa 1992 40" RP monitor, the difference was pretty obvious. *None* of the things that bothered me about laserdisc were present on DVD and I only occasionally saw really blatant compression flaws...and only some of those were repeatable, making it clear that the problem was less the authoring than the playback hardware.

I'm not trying to trash laserdisc, just reinforcing that to my eyes, DVD was a *major* improvement right out of the gate and only continued to get better and better...much like laserdisc, come to think of it.

It will be interesting to see if it's really possible for Blu-ray to get better. Sure, there are some infamously badly mastered Blu-rays that could be fixed, but I wonder if a few years down the road we're going to start seeing newly remastered Blu-rays because the technology has improved to the point where it's worth it. It's just hard for me to imagine that now, given how good most Blu-rays look and sound...but then, I look back at what I used to think was terrific and shake my head, so who knows?

 

[surroundophile]

"...which flaws bother users more" is very relevant to my situation, I think. I bought my first laserdisc player in September of 1984 after CED went under. I was expecting perfection after all the skipping and hiss-pumping of CED, but instead I got "barber poles", "helicoptoring" and exactly the same hiss-pumping I got with CED.

As the technology progressed and CLV quietly became CAA, the barber poles went away and instead crosstalk showed up to one degree or another as wavy lines. Analog sound finally started getting a lot more reliable, but by then it was largely obsolete as they figured out how to stick 16/44.1 digital onto the discs.

When DVD was announced and people started freaking out about the compression, I expected the worst, and reviews of early test discs seemed to bear that out. By that point, laserdisc really had their quality control act together and I never seemed to have any complaints about new discs. DVD seemed unnecessary at best and, based on what I was reading, at worst a serious step down in quality.

Then I actually saw one playing in a store. I didn't last very long before giving in and buying a player. Even on my circa 1992 40" RP monitor, the difference was pretty obvious. *None* of the things that bothered me about laserdisc were present on DVD and I only occasionally saw really blatant compression flaws...and only some of those were repeatable, making it clear that the problem was less the authoring than the playback hardware.

I'm not trying to trash laserdisc, just reinforcing that to my eyes, DVD was a *major* improvement right out of the gate and only continued to get better and better...much like laserdisc, come to think of it.

It will be interesting to see if it's really possible for Blu-ray to get better. Sure, there are some infamously badly mastered Blu-rays that could be fixed, but I wonder if a few years down the road we're going to start seeing newly remastered Blu-rays because the technology has improved to the point where it's worth it. It's just hard for me to imagine that now, given how good most Blu-rays look and sound...but then, I look back at what I used to think was terrific and shake my head, so who knows?

I couldn't agree with you more. I went through all the same things. I got into Laserdiscs in the early 80's, and with each improvement, upgraded my system, untill the end with great pressings *no more "laser rot", and both DD & DTS.
I had read bad things too about DVD, but viewing it in a store changed my mind, and I got my feet wet with a combo DVD-V/A refurbished player from JV bought on line. Then I replaced it with the Pioneer DV47i universal player, and never have I had ANY artifac problems with DVD. It WAS better than either VHS AND Laserdisc. I have replaced all my Lasers now except thoses I never watch, or that have never been put on DVD. It's funny though, now that I have an HDTV, Lasers look worse on it than on an old CRT (worse that VHS!), so Lasers are now played in the bedroom on the CRT TV.

Another thing, I agree with the "dualdisc" idea of BR/DVD (like HD DVD), HOWEVER they would have to immediatly stop making DVDs only, and price the combo disc at the same price point of DVD.

One last idea to help BR......

Where are the BR recorders?????????????????
Why are the electronics companies holding out on us?
I want to record off the air in HD and keep a copy (I am NOT paying cable companied to rent a DVR nor TVIO monthly rental fees [that won't let me keep a hard copy]!).
And since the Sony Betamax case says I can record off the air, Hollywood should have nothing to do with this.
Where's my BR recorder??????????

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Once I saw DVD I dumped my LaserDiscs and looking back, none too soon. Had I waited much longer, less than $1 per LD would have been the norm. I still gladly use DVD although I certainly prefer Blu-ray and for me the upgrade from LD to DVD was greater than the upgrade from DVD to Blu-ray. I expect to use DVD and Blu-ray the remainder of my life since I don't seem to be able to get into downloading or streaming or VOD. DVD works great and Blu-ray is even better is how I see it.

Chris

 

[atrocity]

Where are the BR recorders?????????????????

Japan. As far as I know, there aren't any here, but they've been out in Japan for at least a couple years.

I want to record off the air in HD and keep a copy (I am NOT paying cable companied to rent a DVR nor TVIO monthly rental fees [that won't let me keep a hard copy]!).

You can keep a hard copy with TiVo...you have to buy their PC software to transfer the file to your machine, but then you can do whatever you want with it.

 

[ChristopherLees]

Where are the BR recorders?????????????????

panasonic has 2 models...
DMR-BW850 with a 500GB hard drive and 2 high def tuners


and the
DMR-BW750 with a 250GB hard drive and 2 high def tuners

 

[dwight]

I thought I'd post the following link. The death does not seem to be imminent. Can I see a smile?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10288294-1.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Crave

Dwight

 

[QuadMusic]

Panasonic...DMR-BW750 with a 250GB hard drive and 2 high def tuners

£730 in the UK. Bargain.

PC

 

[atrocity]

I thought I'd post the following link. The death does not seem to be imminent. Can I see a smile?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10288294-1.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Crave

Dwight

And what do we have here?
Toshiba set to release Blu-ray player this year.

 

[jmrosen]

I've posted two articles to refute this vociferous ignorance. zdnet is not even close on this one. Blu-ray is selling VERY well.

I don't have it and won't get it because my sole MC experience is limited to my car. But this sounds ominous for those that enjoy the format:

Snip:
Unless drastic action is taken before this Christmas season, Blu-ray will join all the other failed consumer media formats like SACD, Laser Disk, DVD-Audio and the PSP’s UMD. Most new formats fail - Blu-ray’s claim to fame is that it will be, without a doubt, the costliest such failure in history.

What can the BDA and the vendors do to turn it around? How about:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=509

 

[kap'n krunch]

Well, resurrecting an old thread...
they actually have been trying to PUSH BD down our throats, and in a country with 30% unemployment rate, it's really a lost cause..
BUT...
They have actually have been cutting the price of the discs (except for NEW movies, which is also the same price on DVD!!!)

After years of poopooing it (mainly because of the "drop frame" experience a few years ago when I was checking it out on HI END players and TVs, and that , somehow they have solved...), my wife gave me a BluRay player for my birthday (who LOOVESS MEEE?????...she's a REAL and smart woman!), so I'm in now..

I have been getting VERY reasonably priced ones from amaz*n UK with EXCELLENT results:
"2001"(AMAZING!), "Funny Face"(a VistaVision spectacular)..and today I got a package with the restored version of Fritz Lang's masterpiece "Metropolis" featuring the missing footage found in Argentina a few years back in a REALLY nice package with tons of features.., also, "North by Northwest"(another VistaVision beauty), and "The Pink Panther" (1964) just to see my muse, Capucine, in high resolution...can't wait to watch them...

maybe I'll get "To Catch a thief" (another Vista Vision beauty..not to mention Grace Kelly!) and "Enter the Dragon"... but not much else, if only cause the upscaling of the DVDs is quite spectacular!

I'm a fan now, but I'm certainly NOT getting all of the stuff on BD AGAIN!!!