Dual Disc DualDiscs Ahoy!

[Larry Geller]

Nice to see Silverline getting ready to kill ANOTHER format!

 

[Kris Deering]

I am glad Silverline is showing support. Any title support is a good thing, especially early in the game.

Just got this in from Warner:

"In stores on October 26th, Simple Plan's highly anticipated new album "Still Not Getting Any..." and The Donnas' eagerly awaited new album "Gold Medal" will be on DualDisc. Additionally, the Grateful Dead's "American Beauty" and Trapt's self-titled album will be made available on DualDisc November 23rd."

 

[bnyhof]

Here's the specs on Universal's first 5 Dualdiscs. All have DVD-Audio content, but the specs may be a bit lower than what we have been getting from them in the past.

http://consumers.umusic.com/dvda/releasesR.html

 

[HiRes_PR]

Hello!

This is what I found. You can take a look at the official releases on Dualdisc from Universal on 11/23/2004. It seems they'll (record companies) have to make space on such discs and keep the Advance Resolution surround to 48KHz/24bit instead of 96KHz/24bit. Unfortunately!

http://consumers.umusic.com/dd/releases.html

 

[neil wilkes]

Hello!

This is what I found. You can take a look at the official releases on Dualdisc from Universal on 11/23/2004. It seems they'll (record companies) have to make space on such discs and keep the Advance Resolution surround to 48KHz/24bit instead of 96KHz/24bit. Unfortunately!

http://consumers.umusic.com/dd/releases.html

I'd still rather 24/48 for the surround than a Dolby version as on the Sony/BMG titles. At least it's not lossy.
As for space, I do not see why - unless of course a dual layer DVD side will make the disc thicker - there cannot be an 8.5Gb DVD-A, that will be more than enough room for full 24/96 MLP 5.1, plus 24/96 MLP 2.0 and a Dolby/DTS 5.1 in the Video_TS - this would be a sort of Hybrid DVD-Audio with Redbook, and a true universal disc.
It would see off all other formats as there would be every format covered on the one disc.

I'm currently authoring a lot of DVD-A hybrids, and it is definitely the way to go, IMHO.

 

[Kris Deering]

I agree, there is enough room even with a single layer DVD side for 96/24 advanced resolution tracks and a Dolby mix. Warner has demonstrated that already.

Supposedly there is a dual layer version in the works that will not have compatibility issues, so that may be the answer. Personally, I would have preferred the two disc approach ala The Flaming Lips and Kaje. This is the most no compromise solution in my opinion.

 

[rusinurbe]

At the risk of seeming Quad Obsessed, There is already a Stereo version on the discs on the CD(red Book) side why not put 96/24 Quad on the disc the videos and then if there is space a Stereo mix.

 

[Quadzilla]

I realize that I am risking a lot of hate mail, but here is my 2 cents worth:

I will not likely buy a DualDisc. It was always a toss-up for me whether to buy SACD or DVD-Audio, but since the SACD versions usually came out first, that was most often my choice. Add the various firmware compatibility issues with my Toshiba SD-9200 and others' Pioneer and Denon units, and SACD seemed to me to be the least amount of grief.

With most of this soon to be repeated ... DualDiscs are reported to be ALMOST 100% compatible with existing players ... and the fact that labels seem to assume that surround fans would prefer fluff such as videos to HiRez fidelity, it would seem to me that SACD is being positioned as THE audiophile medium, and DualDisc as the medium for surround fans who are ASSUMED to have little or no interest in fidelity ... much as Q8 was for the masses, and Q4 reels were for more discriminating listeners.

No format war intended Cai, just a few marketing observations.

Mike.

 

[Cai Campbell]

I hear ya on the compatibilty issues. I finally sh!t-canned my SD-9200 when it started freaking out when I tried to play DualDiscs. That was the last straw.

So the format is experiencing growing pains... and it's not maturing into something I'm really excited about. But you know, it's probably a necessary evil. "Value-added" content means something very different to the masses than it does to the minority (i.e. audiophiles). DualDisc is doing what is necessary for DVD-A to survive (albeit in a bastardized form).

Put it this way, I'll take "watered-down" mid-rez surround over nothing any day of the week. Heck, I was happy when DTS was the only option! But more to Mike's point, if DualDisc can allow for a dual-format release, then perhaps SACD will become the hi-rez alternative. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Quadzilla]

I hear ya on the compatibilty issues. I finally sh!t-canned my SD-9200 when it started freaking out when I tried to play DualDiscs. That was the last straw.

I still have my SD-9200. I was going to get rid of it, but I decided to use it as a 2-channel only player in my main stereo system to play the DVD-Audio disks that were compatible, and I bought a used Pioneer Elite DV-45A for my Surround Sound system. It seems to play everything ... but the truth is that the Toshibal sounds better. I still think that the Toshiba is a work of art though, and a wonderful transport. I use it with an EAD DSP-7000 III DAC for CDs, and it is quite good for that purpose. For me though, DualDisc is the thing that will turn me totally to SACD. Mike.

 

[Cai Campbell]

I thought the SD-9200 was (and is) a wonderful machine. It suffers from the fact that it is a first generation DVD-A player. As a redbook/HDCD/DVD player, it is awesome. For DVD-A discs that it doesn't choke on (which, to be fair, is most of them) it is awesome as well. I still have the machine, I just kicked it upstairs. We still use it as a CD player and DVD player, but for hi-rez surround, its days are over.

 

[Quadzilla]

I thought the SD-9200 was (and is) a wonderful machine. It suffers from the fact that it is a first generation DVD-A player. As a redbook/HDCD/DVD player, it is awesome. For DVD-A discs that it doesn't choke on (which, to be fair, is most of them) it is awesome as well. I still have the machine, I just kicked it upstairs. We still use it as a CD player and DVD player, but for hi-rez surround, its days are over.

What sickens me about the whole thing is that I paid MORE for my Toshiba when I bought it new than my:

Used Pioneer Elite DV-45A Universal Player PLUS
New Pioneer DV-563A Universal Player PLUS
New Panasonic DVD-F65 2-channel DVD-Audio Player PLUS
Used Sony DVP-NS500V SACD/DVD-Video Player PLUS
New Sony SCD-XE670 SACD Player INCLUDING a full set of multichannel mods from SACDmods.com

It just does not pay to be an early adopter. Mike.

 

[Cai Campbell]

It just does not pay to be an early adopter. Mike.

Nail head, squarely hit!

 

[bmoura]

With most of this soon to be repeated ... DualDiscs are reported to be ALMOST 100% compatible with existing players ...
Mike.

Well, according to the article on Audio Revolution at http://www.avrev.com/news/0904/2.dualdisc.html it's more like 90% for existing DVD and CD players according to the tests conducted for the record labels selling Dual Discs. That explains the disclaimer the record labels are printing on the back of the Dual Discs which says the disc "May not play on a limited number of models".

And then there's the article on Audioholics at http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/EHXsurround2004conference2.php which quotes Philips officials who say that when Dual Discs are subjected to consumer conditions, their playability drops further.

I'd like to hear from the QuadraphonicQuad folks who buy the Dual Discs starting tomorrow to see how they fare on players other than the Toshiba SD 9200 - both when the DDs are new and then later on as they pick up a bit of wear. That will give us some "real world" information on all of this.

The other key here is the industry probably needs to add a Dual Disc compatible logo/sticker to new DVD and CD players so we know which ones will be guaranteed to play the Dual Discs.

 

[bnyhof]

Well, according to the article on Audio Revolution at http://www.avrev.com/news/0904/2.dualdisc.html it's more like 90% for existing DVD and CD players according to the tests conducted for the record labels selling Dual Discs. That explains the disclaimer the record labels are printing on the back of the Dual Discs which says the disc "May not play on a limited number of models".

Upon reading the Audiorevolution article more carefully it's actually 97% for DVD players and 98% for CD players. The 90% figure covers several cumulative problems. In any event I don't think the small sample used gives a good indication. Time will tell the magnitude of the problem.

 

[Kris Deering]

I have played several Dual Discs in my players including the CD changer in my car, the single disc player in my other car, and about 4 different DVD players in my house. I haven't had a problem with any of them yet!

 

[Eggplant]

I'll take "watered-down" mid-rez surround over nothing any day of the week.

Nail head squarely hit.

 

[HiRes_PR]

Both Warner Bros Dualdiscs play fine on the Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi on both sides (CD/DVD-A). Simple Plan has 5.1 88.2KHz/24bit and The Donnas 5.1 96KHz/24bit. True hi rez.

Note: Simple Plan stereo is only 88.2KHz/16bit.

Don't know if they can be played on my car CD player yet. I'll try it tomorrow.

 

[BOSSMAN]

Can anyone chime in on any capatability issues with Dual Discs on the Pioneer 563A? I'm not really too interested in the titles currently available, but should something peak my interest later on, I'd like to not have to worry about it. (I had my player upgraded last year to fix the DVD-A audio problem).

 

[Bob Romano]

Can anyone chime in on any capatability issues with Dual Discs on the Pioneer 563A? I'm not really too interested in the titles currently available, but should something peak my interest later on, I'd like to not have to worry about it. (I had my player upgraded last year to fix the DVD-A audio problem).

I have no problems playing either side with mine (after the upgrade).