The next generation?
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...DVD_Audio_Title_Debuts_with_Uncommon_Bach/685
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...DVD_Audio_Title_Debuts_with_Uncommon_Bach/685
First Multichannel HD DVD Audio Title
- Thread starter mattB2
- Start date
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Mmmmm
seems to be a DVDA in all but name. Only not compatiable with standard DVD.
seems to be a DVDA in all but name. Only not compatiable with standard DVD.
Chris Gerhard
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
It shows this release will be DTS-HD MA. I don't think any HD DVD players exist to decode that and I don't think any decoders exist that can be connected by HDMI 1.3 to decode it. It isn't a very exciting release if that is correct and the best quality can't even be decoded currently. Guess it is a release for future enjoyment. Here is a funny quote:
Of course all HD DVD players have HDMI and optical outputs so I guess all are doubly compatible in case one output breaks. Both aren't working and you are totally screwed and it is probably time to throw your HD DVD player in the dumpster. Just a guess here, but I am going to bet it works over coaxial digital audio output as well. Of course if a player with an internal DTS-HD MA decoder is ever made, I am going to bet it will work over the analog audio outputs as well. I don't think there could possibly have been a sillier bit of misinformation written about an upcoming release. I wonder if it also has some other lossless audio format such as Dolby TrueHD or 5.1 PCM.
If it is being released touting the advantage of DTS-HD MA, the core DTS does sound very good, but that is hardly what we are hoping for. DTS-HD MA should just be forgotten, it came too late with too little and I don't think it will ever make any sense at this time.
Chris
Of course all HD DVD players have HDMI and optical outputs so I guess all are doubly compatible in case one output breaks. Both aren't working and you are totally screwed and it is probably time to throw your HD DVD player in the dumpster. Just a guess here, but I am going to bet it works over coaxial digital audio output as well. Of course if a player with an internal DTS-HD MA decoder is ever made, I am going to bet it will work over the analog audio outputs as well. I don't think there could possibly have been a sillier bit of misinformation written about an upcoming release. I wonder if it also has some other lossless audio format such as Dolby TrueHD or 5.1 PCM.
If it is being released touting the advantage of DTS-HD MA, the core DTS does sound very good, but that is hardly what we are hoping for. DTS-HD MA should just be forgotten, it came too late with too little and I don't think it will ever make any sense at this time.
Chris
Of course all HD DVD players have HDMI and optical outputs so I guess all are doubly compatible in case one output breaks.
Except the XBox 360 with HD-Drive which doesn't have HDMI.
El Guapo
Senior Member
Hi!
You're absolutely right! If you ask me this release is completely pointless!
If they don't put any video content along with lossless surround sound on it, there is not a single advantage over a DVD-Audio.
And as you correctly observed: there is currently no player with a built-in dts-HD decoder (they only decode the core stream which is nothing more than the regular bare-bone dts with max. 1.5Mbps) and currently there are no players that can output the original bitstream. We can hope for an update for the XE1 (that's the flagship player in Europe) and probably it's American counterpart, because it has a HDMI1.3 output and supposedly the right chipset which could output the bitstream.
I was really hoping for some exciting music releases in HD, but this is certainly not it!
Best regards,
Oliver
You're absolutely right! If you ask me this release is completely pointless!
If they don't put any video content along with lossless surround sound on it, there is not a single advantage over a DVD-Audio.
And as you correctly observed: there is currently no player with a built-in dts-HD decoder (they only decode the core stream which is nothing more than the regular bare-bone dts with max. 1.5Mbps) and currently there are no players that can output the original bitstream. We can hope for an update for the XE1 (that's the flagship player in Europe) and probably it's American counterpart, because it has a HDMI1.3 output and supposedly the right chipset which could output the bitstream.
I was really hoping for some exciting music releases in HD, but this is certainly not it!
Best regards,
Oliver
Chris Gerhard
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Hopefully that information is wrong and it is in Dolby TrueHD, a format that can be decoded now.
Chris
Except the XBox 360 with HD-Drive which doesn't have HDMI.
I think the new "black" XBOX 360 has HDMI.....
"If they don't put any video content along with lossless surround sound on it, there is not a single advantage over a DVD-Audio."
Is that entirely accurate? The Chris Botti Blu-ray has audio encoded at 13.8 Mbps. Isn't the maximum data transfer rate of DVD-A 10.08 Mbps (assuming no video of any kind)? DTS claims the maximum transfer rate for HD-MA on HD-DVD is 18Mbps. But this is where I get muddy - if audio is 96/24, does a higher bitrate really mean better quality sound?
The new Onkyo receivers can decode HD-MA but there are still no players that output it.
N
Is that entirely accurate? The Chris Botti Blu-ray has audio encoded at 13.8 Mbps. Isn't the maximum data transfer rate of DVD-A 10.08 Mbps (assuming no video of any kind)? DTS claims the maximum transfer rate for HD-MA on HD-DVD is 18Mbps. But this is where I get muddy - if audio is 96/24, does a higher bitrate really mean better quality sound?
The new Onkyo receivers can decode HD-MA but there are still no players that output it.
N
Last edited:
El Guapo
Senior Member
Hi!
96/24 is 96/24, and as long as the codec is lossless you won't get any different result, because lossless codecs deliver a bit-by-bit accurate data stream at the end. The Chris Botti Blu-ray has uncompressed PCM, and DVD-Audio uses the lossless MLP compression. That's why you don't need as much space to store it and not as much bandwith to transport the data stream.
There could be one advantage of an HD DVD or Blu-ray for music-only releases over DVD-Audio: DVD-Audio only supports up to 5.1 channels for the Advanced Resolution track, whereas the next-gen formats support upt to 7.1 channels. But since the "Uncommon Bach" release is only in 5.1 channels anyway, this does not apply here.
Best regards,
Oliver
96/24 is 96/24, and as long as the codec is lossless you won't get any different result, because lossless codecs deliver a bit-by-bit accurate data stream at the end. The Chris Botti Blu-ray has uncompressed PCM, and DVD-Audio uses the lossless MLP compression. That's why you don't need as much space to store it and not as much bandwith to transport the data stream.
There could be one advantage of an HD DVD or Blu-ray for music-only releases over DVD-Audio: DVD-Audio only supports up to 5.1 channels for the Advanced Resolution track, whereas the next-gen formats support upt to 7.1 channels. But since the "Uncommon Bach" release is only in 5.1 channels anyway, this does not apply here.
Best regards,
Oliver
Chris Gerhard
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
DVD-A can only do 96kHz/24-bit 5.1 while Blu-ray/HD DVD can have 192kHz/24-bit lossless 5.1 and at least 96kHz/24-bit lossless 7.1.
I don't know if it is true there are no players that can output DTS-HD MA over HDMI, maybe a firmware update can accomplish that with one of the HDMI 1.3 compliant players. It is apparently correct that currently no players do output it.
Chris
El Guapo
Senior Member
Hi Chris,
as far as I could find out, TrueHD allows for a maximum of 96/24 for multichannel application and the 192/24 only for stereo (same as MLP on DVD-Audio). And if I read the DTS web site right dts-HD Master Audio does not offer an 192/24 option at all (not that it would really make a difference if you ask me).
I don't know about the possibilities of the uncompressed PCM on HD DVD and Blu-ray concerning the sampling rates.
You're right of course about the two additional channels, but AFAIK there are unfortunately no releases so far that make use of it (at least in the case of the computer animated penguin musical Happy Feet I think this was somewhat a missed opportunity to provide a TrueHD track with only 5.1 even though DD+ track is DD+5.1EX (also not DD+6.1 or 7.1 )
Best regards,
Oliver
as far as I could find out, TrueHD allows for a maximum of 96/24 for multichannel application and the 192/24 only for stereo (same as MLP on DVD-Audio). And if I read the DTS web site right dts-HD Master Audio does not offer an 192/24 option at all (not that it would really make a difference if you ask me).
I don't know about the possibilities of the uncompressed PCM on HD DVD and Blu-ray concerning the sampling rates.
You're right of course about the two additional channels, but AFAIK there are unfortunately no releases so far that make use of it (at least in the case of the computer animated penguin musical
Happy Feet I think this was somewhat a missed opportunity to provide a TrueHD track with only 5.1 even though DD+ track is DD+5.1EX (also not DD+6.1 or 7.1 )Best regards,
Oliver
Chris Gerhard
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Hi Chris,
as far as I could find out, TrueHD allows for a maximum of 96/24 for multichannel application and the 192/24 only for stereo (same as MLP on DVD-Audio). And if I read the DTS web site right dts-HD Master Audio does not offer an 192/24 option at all (not that it would really make a difference if you ask me).
I don't know about the possibilities of the uncompressed PCM on HD DVD and Blu-ray concerning the sampling rates.
You're right of course about the two additional channels, but AFAIK there are unfortunately no releases so far that make use of it (at least in the case of the computer animated penguin musical
Best regards,
Oliver
I can't determine for sure that Dolby TrueHD can go beyond 96kHz for 5.1 either, but I believe it can. Here is one of many articles I have read that indicate both DTS-HD MA and PCM can be at 192kHz/24-Bit at 5.1. Will the difference between 96kHz and 192kHz be audible? I don't know the answer to that one, for me I think the answer is no, but I am 55 years old.
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6323699.html
Chris
El Guapo
Senior Member
Hi Chris,
Reliable information on this seems to be a bit fishy and I don't know how far I can trust any such claims when they are not coming from Dolby or DTS themselves. I just tried to find something on both their web sites, and they both talk only about 96/24 on their overview pages here and here.
I even couldn't find something in the whitepapers that Dolby publish on their web sites.
But I agree that this discussion is probably of an academic nature, especially if you take into account that all the HD DVDs I know of with TrueHD seem to use only 48/16 anyway
(Unfortunately, my Toshiba XE1 player does not display these details and I have to rely on third party information like the reviews on http://www.highdefdigest.com/.
Best regards,
Oliver
Reliable information on this seems to be a bit fishy and I don't know how far I can trust any such claims when they are not coming from Dolby or DTS themselves. I just tried to find something on both their web sites, and they both talk only about 96/24 on their overview pages here and here.
I even couldn't find something in the whitepapers that Dolby publish on their web sites.
But I agree that this discussion is probably of an academic nature, especially if you take into account that all the HD DVDs I know of with TrueHD seem to use only 48/16 anyway
(Unfortunately, my Toshiba XE1 player does not display these details and I have to rely on third party information like the reviews on http://www.highdefdigest.com/.
Best regards,
Oliver
The lack of bitrate info from Toshiba's HD-DVD players is annoying. I use PS3 as my Blu-ray player and it displays the audio and video bitrate when you press the "display" button. So far, the only movie I've seen above 5.1 is Crank (interestingly, the packaging claims 6.1 but the display shows 7.1). In addition, quite a few PS3 games support 7.1 audio. Resistance, Calling All Cars, Blast Factor, and NBA 2K7 are all 7.1 (I think flOw and Motor Storm are as well, but I'm not 100% certain).
N
N
Chris Gerhard
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Hi Chris,
Reliable information on this seems to be a bit fishy and I don't know how far I can trust any such claims when they are not coming from Dolby or DTS themselves. I just tried to find something on both their web sites, and they both talk only about 96/24 on their overview pages here and here.
I even couldn't find something in the whitepapers that Dolby publish on their web sites.
But I agree that this discussion is probably of an academic nature, especially if you take into account that all the HD DVDs I know of with TrueHD seem to use only 48/16 anyway
(Unfortunately, my Toshiba XE1 player does not display these details and I have to rely on third party information like the reviews on http://www.highdefdigest.com/.
Best regards,
Oliver
I understand. The HDMI site does state 192kHz/24-Bit 5.1 audio can be carried. The players have the DACs to do a digital to analog conversion. Wikipedia information for Blu-ray indicates it is part of the specifications and a large number of posts and articles on various sites state the same as if it is fact. Until we actually see a disc with that information and play it, we can't know for certain.
Chris
Does the package on this release look just a bit like a Q8?
Kazaam
701 Club - QQ All-Star
Yep, sure seems very similar to DVD-Audio. I'm not interested in classical, but the potential for good sounding music is definitely possible with the new HD disc formats. Might need to wait for 3rd or 4th generation players in order to get access to the lossless M-CH TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, I suppose?
I wonder if Kal has checked this disc out yet???
Kal Rubinson
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
I have it but I have only a BlueRay Disc player, so I have not been able to play it. Still, considering its lack of any new audio format makes it less interesting to me. OTOH, some Sony BRDs have MCH uncompressed PCM tracks................
Kal
El Guapo
Senior Member
Hi Kal,
I have the Nine Inch Nails HD DVD which has TrueHD, and it is quite... impressive!
Normally not my type of music; I mainly bought it because it was the only HD DVD music release with lossless multichannel I could find.
It's a shame that they did not put any lossless audio on re-releases of music DVDs like the Eagles concert.
Best regards,
Oliver
Quite a few HD DVDs have lossless TrueHD tracks. The strange thing is that most of the music releases don't.I have it but I have only a BlueRay Disc player, so I have not been able to play it. Still, considering its lack of any new audio format makes it less interesting to me. OTOH, some Sony BRDs have MCH uncompressed PCM tracks................
I have the Nine Inch Nails HD DVD which has TrueHD, and it is quite... impressive!
Normally not my type of music; I mainly bought it because it was the only HD DVD music release with lossless multichannel I could find.
It's a shame that they did not put any lossless audio on re-releases of music DVDs like the Eagles concert.
Best regards,
Oliver
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