Marantz SR7012 receiver has turned itself off twice already(Mac/hdmi/Marantz/Denon troubleshooting-a play in 3 acts)

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tonyE said:
As a practicing engineer, there is NO WAY I'm going to subsidize IP THEFT.

As a matter of fact, the US DoS should block their products. I'm surprised Emotiva hasn't sued them....
Click to expand...
well, whoever thinks is free of sin shall cast the first stone...I do not see any Emotiva preamp which is the same as theirs, especially with the analog inputs...
 
kap'n krunch said:
well, whoever thinks is free of sin shall cast the first stone...I do not see any Emotiva preamp which is the same as theirs, especially with the analog inputs...
Click to expand...

I'm casting the first stone then.

I do not support IP theft.

BTW, My UMC-1 has analog inputs.

Indeed, at work, we take training to identify, prevent and report IP theft. Engineers generate Intellectual Property, why would we give our livelihood away to someone who cheats and steals it?

I see lots of made in China products that look suspiciously like copies of American products.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265063039477?hash=item3db6fd01f5:g:ANMAAOSw0Xxgb6wv
then you got stuff like this!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/323927616346?hash=item4b6b972b5a:g:AkcAAOSwZp1hqz9g
 
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kap'n krunch said:
Thank you for this great heads up...so . let me get this straight, these people reverse engineered the Emotiva stuff and they build it in China , along with the Chinese text in the back of the components?
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Not exactly. Tonewinner is an OEM supplier. They have been for quite some time and only relatively recently began selling their own label in North America. As far as I know, they don't really have a US distributor (yet). Summit Hi-Fi will sell Tonewinner in the US, but they are actually a Canadian firm.

Tonewinner builds equipment for Emotiva on an OEM basis. Tonewinner may do a major portion of the design work as well. The Emotiva gear is built to Emotivas specification. The Tonewinner AT-300 and the Emo MC-1 are the same basic piece of gear. They differ in features.

kap'n krunch said:
They are definitely a bit cheaper than the Emotiva people AND they also added analog inputs PLUS 1/4" analog inputs and outputs in the back which the current Emotiva HIGH END stuff doesn't have...
Am seriously considering the preamp and the 5 channel amp...
The only thing that worries me is the support and warranty...
Click to expand...
The Tonewinner AT-300 costs $400 more than the Emotiva MC-1, so the processor isnt cheaper. Tonewinner didn't add features to the AT-300, Emo asked for the balanced outputs to be removed. The rumour is they didn't want the MC-1 to be too much competition for their higher priced Atmos processors. I'm not sure about the 6 channel input. To use it on the Tonewinner you have to sacrifice three of the four stereo inputs as they are assignable. The rumour on that is it can be retrofitted to the MC-1 with a firmware update which Emo may or may not be willing to do. I cant say for sure about the power amps, but its likely that they manufacture some, if not all, of Emotivas BasX line.

All Emo processors except the MC-1 have balanced outputs.

There are caveats. These apply to both AVPs. Any source you plug into them, whether digital or analog is going to be converted to a maximum of 48kHz sample rate. That's the internal max processing rate of the units themselves. Hence, there is no true analog bypass. All analog signals get converted to either 44.1kHz or 48kHz. There is a USB audio input, but it is limited to 16bit 44.1/48kHz stereo. Bass management is always active, unless you bypass it in setup. EQ can be bypassed based on the input.

The Auto EQ function on both of them sucks badly. They do have parametric EQ for all channels: 11 bands LCR, 9 bands surround, 7 bands for heights, and 5 bands for the sub, I think. That can be set manually. But if you are going to use EQ, plan on determining the filters with REW or use an outboard Dirac processor. The auto function is useless.

Even with all that being said, they do seem like bargains in todays marketplace based on the number of channel configs that are possible.

I made the choice for Emotiva because of the service/support issue, and I didnt need the balanced outputs. YMMV
 
OEM manufacturers.... grey area for sure.

I too have the Emo pre-processor... the original one.. UMC-1, bought after all the firmware updates and the blow out sale...

Over the years I've thought about updating it... I mean, currently I only use two of its hdmi inputs and the analog. And its simple 7.1 decoding is sufficient for our needs.

But, the more I use the LG Smart TV as a source switch (heck, currently it has plex clients, streamers, Roku, Tablo, etc.), and it feeds its output to the Emo to decode, I realize that I don't really need a pre-pro with much video switching... just a nice audio decoder. I've been wondering if I could hook a stand alone such decoder to the PCM or HDMI and be done with the whole concept of pre-pro...

As usual, my amps are separate.
 
LuvMyQuad said:
Its got 1 HDMI in, 1 HDMI out. Not 2 in.
Click to expand...

True, I just noticed it.... I thought the USB was an input (for audio decoding)....

But for what it is.. taking the HDMI output of the smart TV... it looks like it will decode the surround audio in the HDMI stream and bypass the need for a Pre-Pro.

If anything, I could put a Parasound P7 in there and use the PC's output via it's own ASUS Xonar U7 to one of the two analog inputs.

And EDID ensures that the TV output won't get confused and disconnect it.

Another thing... it seems like HDMI carries seven channel data.... how ( and where ) is it decoded?

Notice my end game here... to minimize the scope of the processor to as simple a box as possible. The P7. amps and smart TV handle the audio and video switching. The processor is just a simple unit.

I don't need/want equalizers or anything like that because my speakers/room sound very good as they are. And I don't need complications like 11.4.5 or anything like that. I'm running 7.0 right now. Might go to 7.1(2).... with two subwoofers running the .1 channel.
 
tonyE said:
True, I just noticed it.... I thought the USB was an input (for audio decoding)....

But for what it is.. taking the HDMI output of the smart TV... it looks like it will decode the surround audio in the HDMI stream and bypass the need for a Pre-Pro.

If anything, I could put a Parasound P7 in there and use the PC's output via it's own ASUS Xonar U7 to one of the two analog inputs.

And EDID ensures that the TV output won't get confused and disconnect it.

Another thing... it seems like HDMI carries seven channel data.... how ( and where ) is it decoded?

Notice my end game here... to minimize the scope of the processor to as simple a box as possible. The P7. amps and smart TV handle the audio and video switching. The processor is just a simple unit.

I don't need/want equalizers or anything like that because my speakers/room sound very good as they are. And I don't need complications like 11.4.5 or anything like that. I'm running 7.0 right now. Might go to 7.1(2).... with two subwoofers running the .1 channel.
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The unit you are looking at doesn't decode anything. It has to be fed PCM or it passes to HDMI out. .If your TV is going to do all the decoding I guess you can bitstream over HDMI. But you can already do that with the UMC-1. I didn't see the sample rates it accepts or the internal processing rate. Your UMC-1 has more features than you need. So what. Disable them. It still decodes surround formats if you need to, and it will process digital streams at a full 96kHz. I'll bet that linked unit doesn't. AND it has a real analog bypass. Without the UMC-200, I assume you'd have to use the Parasound for bass management Yes? In short, I cant believe the piece you linked can provide you with any advantage over your UMC-1 in any way.

One more thing... Do you have any knowledge/experience with HDMI/EDID combinations? I just had to install by first HDMI splitter. Its a science in itself. Don't just assume an HDMI port is going to pass what you think it should. LOL

This one worked for me. But i still dont get the EDID thing.

Home
 
LuvMyQuad said:
The unit you are looking at doesn't decode anything. It has to be fed PCM or it passes to HDMI out. .If your TV is going to do all the decoding I guess you can bitstream over HDMI. But you can already do that with the UMC-1. I didn't see the sample rates it accepts or the internal processing rate. Your UMC-1 has more features than you need. So what. Disable them. It still decodes surround formats if you need to, and it will process digital streams at a full 96kHz. I'll bet that linked unit doesn't. AND it has a real analog bypass. Without the UMC-200, I assume you'd have to use the Parasound for bass management Yes? In short, I cant believe the piece you linked can provide you with any advantage over your UMC-1 in any way.

One more thing... Do you have any knowledge/experience with HDMI/EDID combinations? I just had to install by first HDMI splitter. Its a science in itself. Don't just assume an HDMI port is going to pass what you think it should. LOL

This one worked for me. But i still dont get the EDID thing.

Home
Click to expand...

EDID keeps the HDMI connection alive so the sender (PC?) always sees the connection to the display. Otherwise, whenever you switch inputs the PC will see the monitor disconnected and poof! I run a couple of laptops in dual display mode, their own display plus a shared display between them. The shared display/keyboard/mouse go through a KVM switch.

I use a couple of KVM switches (2 port and 4 port) to drive a number of devices to our 34 and 35 inch UW displays. These switches also carry the keyboard and mouse, so I can share the display/keyboard/mouse on several devices. My KVM switches only support a single shared display, but there are others that support dual and quad even.

I'm running the TESmart switches I got at Amazon.. but I got to warn you, I've had some issues and failures with them. So, I always keep a couple of back ups. But they're ... cheap. One of these days I'm gonna spend 400 bucks and get something that works better.

...

Decoding... looking at the back of my UMC-1, I noted I have something hooked up to a PCM input, but I didn't pay attention if it was the Xonar or the TV. ( I was concentrating on replacing the audio amps and adding the Roku and Tablo).

So, I do wonder now if the TV ( '21 LG OLED CX ) will do the decoding. I do have an HDMI cable from the TV to the UMC-1.

I gotta admit I don't mess around too much with the HT. That's my wife's room (the den) so whenever I'm there we just watch Wheel Of Fortune or Family Feud.. hardly surround sound material. The fact we got a pretty good sounding 7.0 system is not very important when we eat dinner ( kitchen and den are one big happy room ).
 
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tonyE said:
But, the more I use the LG Smart TV as a source switch (heck, currently it has plex clients, streamers, Roku, Tablo, etc.), and it feeds its output to the Emo to decode, I realize that I don't really need a pre-pro with much video switching... just a nice audio decoder. I've been wondering if I could hook a stand alone such decoder to the PCM or HDMI and be done with the whole concept of pre-pro...
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I've never used my pre-pro or AVR for video switching. It never made sense to me given all the HDMI inputs on the TVs and ARC. These new AVRs that can switch 8K video are expensive. For example, the latest Marantz in the SR7XXX series, the SR7015, is $2800 and the SR8015 is $3800.

tonyE said:
Notice my end game here... to minimize the scope of the processor to as simple a box as possible. The [Parasound] P7, amps and smart TV handle the audio and video switching. The processor is just a simple unit.
Click to expand...
I consider the Parasound P7 to be an obsolescence firewall. It remains as the heart of the system while "throwaway" AVRs come and go.
 
ar surround said:
Hmmm, I've never used my pre-pro or AVR for video switching. It never made sense to me given all the HDMI inputs on the TVs and ARC. These new AVRs that can switch 8K video are expensive. For example, the latest Marantz in the SR7XXX series, the SR7015, is $2800 and the SR8015 is $3800.


I consider the Parasound P7 to be an obsolescence firewall. It remains as the heart of the system while "throwaway" AVRs come and go.
Click to expand...

So, I still need to make sure that

(1) The TV routes the signal to be decoded (if it doesn't decode it).. it is PCM or over HDMI?
(2) The surround processor takes that and runs with it.

Funny thing is that I have an old Sony EP9ES surround decoder which does exactly what I want. It has no video switching, just good old 5.1 decoding. It also does a fine job of stereo and other ersatz modes. I'm having a fun time using as source for my vintage quad receivers.

So the search continues.

BTW... the Roku I got says it has Dolby Atmos... on the screen on some sources... I got no clue what it does... I guess I ought to power up the audio chain (UMC, amp) and see what it does.. even though I got no Atmos.

The P7 is nice.... I think I have to budget a used one... a black one. I find a big round volume knob and a nice OFF/ON button to be very nice things to have around. In essence, it's a big solid state preamp.

Now, if only these people made an 8 channel... ;-)

https://www.decware.com/newsite/ULTRA.html
 
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tonyE said:
I'm casting the first stone then.

I do not support IP theft.

BTW, My UMC-1 has analog inputs.

Indeed, at work, we take training to identify, prevent and report IP theft. Engineers generate Intellectual Property, why would we give our livelihood away to someone who cheats and steals it?

I see lots of made in China products that look suspiciously like copies of American products.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265063039477?hash=item3db6fd01f5:g:ANMAAOSw0Xxgb6wv
then you got stuff like this!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/323927616346?hash=item4b6b972b5a:g:AkcAAOSwZp1hqz9g
Click to expand...
which ones are these based on?
 
BUMP!
so... after receiving my receiver and not even bothering to power it because I thought it was just gonna turn itself off and do what it used to do (go "CLUNK...OFF") I decided to take it out of its box and plug it in...and... guess what????
It has been on for about 45 minutes, with nothing connected to it, and it's still on....

funny that when I received the Tonewinner I had it "yell at me" and turned itself off until I replaced an RCA CABLE (!!!???) and then it has behaved perfectly until now (three knocks on wood), so I am guessing that THAT was what was WRONG and these bastards in this place in NJ wanted to charge me $800+ to basically do NOTHING!!!!!

Caveat Emptor!!!!
 
kap'n krunch said:
BUMP!
so... after receiving my receiver and not even bothering to power it because I thought it was just gonna turn itself off and do what it used to do (go "CLUNK...OFF") I decided to take it out of its box and plug it in...and... guess what????
It has been on for about 45 minutes, with nothing connected to it, and it's still on....

funny that when I received the Tonewinner I had it "yell at me" and turned itself off until I replaced an RCA CABLE (!!!???) and then it has behaved perfectly until now (three knocks on wood), so I am guessing that THAT was what was WRONG and these bastards in this place in NJ wanted to charge me $800+ to basically do NOTHING!!!!!

Caveat Emptor!!!!
Click to expand...
That/s because you used a CHEAP RCA Cable, KAP, and not one of those mega expensive ones which I SO LOVE!

That 800 bucks could've at least bought you ONE ......... LOL!
 
kap'n krunch said:
BUMP!
so... after receiving my receiver and not even bothering to power it because I thought it was just gonna turn itself off and do what it used to do (go "CLUNK...OFF") I decided to take it out of its box and plug it in...and... guess what????
It has been on for about 45 minutes, with nothing connected to it, and it's still on....

funny that when I received the Tonewinner I had it "yell at me" and turned itself off until I replaced an RCA CABLE (!!!???) and then it has behaved perfectly until now (three knocks on wood), so I am guessing that THAT was what was WRONG and these bastards in this place in NJ wanted to charge me $800+ to basically do NOTHING!!!!!

Caveat Emptor!!!!
Click to expand...
Glad to hear that it seems to be working out all right, Kap.
 
kap'n krunch said:
BUMP!
so... after receiving my receiver and not even bothering to power it because I thought it was just gonna turn itself off and do what it used to do (go "CLUNK...OFF") I decided to take it out of its box and plug it in...and... guess what????
It has been on for about 45 minutes, with nothing connected to it, and it's still on....

funny that when I received the Tonewinner I had it "yell at me" and turned itself off until I replaced an RCA CABLE (!!!???) and then it has behaved perfectly until now (three knocks on wood), so I am guessing that THAT was what was WRONG and these bastards in this place in NJ wanted to charge me $800+ to basically do NOTHING!!!!!

Caveat Emptor!!!!
Click to expand...
I guess from now on when troubleshooting in similar circumstances I would recommend unplugging everything to see if the issue goes away to rule out a bad cable of any kind. Live and learn.

So ya bought a piece of =Tonewinner gear Kap? Which one?
 
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