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nikonf8

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Hello I am new to the group and will tell you a little about my quad equipment and how it all started. A friend of mine has a Sansui 999 quad receiver same as the 9001 but with a black face i beleive this was the japan version of the 9001. Well every time I went to his place I would see this beautiful big unit sitting there and at some point I just had to have one. I found one on e bay that was supposed to be mint and running on all four channels it arrived and the unit it self was mint as can be not a scratch or ding on it but to my dismay it had one channel intermitting and a loud popping sound coming through the speakers when i turned it on . Next I bought a technics RS 858 quad 8 track and another and another and another I now have 4 of them here the one I am using is mint and playing very well. After that came the technics 3340 reel to reel quad, headphones and other things. I still had not set every thing up. Next 4 kiipsch sb3 speakers. I finally got around to setting up the unit and with one channel intermitting and the power switch popping very load when the 9001 was turned on I was kind of disgusted so I bought another 9001 from a guy in Maine who stated he guaranteed the unit was working and every thing was in great shape I received it gave it a quick check by way of head phones and went back to my original unit. I got a name from a guy in Rhode Island who some years back had a 9001 and he mentioned Chicago audio I called this place and met Dave a very knowledgeable and likable guy. I talked to him for some time 45 minutes or more and learned a lot over the next couple of weeks talking to him like the use of a millennium decoder and a dvd player to play dvd audio CDs and dts CDs. I bought a decoder from Dave at a very fair price and tried to hook all this stuff up with no decoding happening. One Sunday morning about 3 AM I decide to bring up the unit I bought from the guy in Maine who guaranteed the 9001 to be running on all 4. I used the same exact setup i had on the old 9001 just transferred the jacks put in a DTS CD and nothing wow was I disappoint after a few minutes I see I am not in the discrete 4 channel mode I hit the switch and bang quad music coming at me from all 4 corners. Finally I see what all this fuss was about with quad and the sansui this was great and I now enjoy this baby every night listing to 8 tracks and dts. The stuff I got from tab is unbelievable. The old unit went out to Dave at Chicago audio who did a modification to it, fixed all the lights that were out and the popping power switch, cleaned it and adjusted it this guy is a real pro and a truly likable guy I have not set this baby up yet but I am sure its perfect I will get it up and running tonight if all goes right.I am now a quad man for ever and will enjoy learning more from the knowedgable people in this group. Well i hope i have not bored you all to death but this is how i got into quad and i am here for ever Mike D
 
Nice to meet you Mike! It's a little dead here today probably because of the Holiday. Glad to hear you're excited about your entry into multi-channel. Why anyone wouldn't be is beyond me. :lol: Enjoy your time here- there's lots of resources/facts/opinions/banter. Take a look around.
 
Dear Mike:
Welcome to Quadraphonic Quad. Do not feel bad about what you have experienced with faulty equipment. It's part of the drill. Most of the old quad gear has been sitting on the shelf for thirty years, and the capacitors tend to go bad when unused. Some of our members have had their units recapped because of this. But initial repairs are part of the cost of playing the game. Some avoid some of this problem by using modern 5.1 surround gear where possible. This can be done by adding a CD-4 demodulator to the analog inputs. A modern unit with Dolby Pro Logic II is similar to an old unit with QS decoding. However, if you want to use the older gear, you will need to find a technician that knows something about quad. Look for older guys, however a young guy that is interested and is an otherwise good technician might be helpful also. Any tech should be able to fix a receiver, even if it's old, because many of the parts are still availlable, and these are the parts that usually go bad. Quad had about a 8 to 10 year run, and there is far more quad music inventory than current 5.1 releases. So, the rewards of having quad capability are great, especially if you like 70's era music. There are some great tunes from those days, So, if you're not into it, then get into it! I an an old time quaddie, a hold over from the quad era, I remained loyal to quad during the bleak eighties and nineties. Most of my quad inventory is original LPs, and I have the decoding gear also. However, Tab's discs are an excellent way to go, for he does a good job with them. It's also harder to damage your CDs while consuming adult beverages when listening. The CDs are also future compatible, LPs are not. So feel free to ask any advice, look for technical manuals, and just converse on these pages. We're glad to help. We are a band of quaddies!

The Quadfather
 
Welcome Mike!

Your 9001 wont be all it can be until it is restored. The caps in it are 30 years old and no matter what Dave did, it is just a shadow of what it was new! I have said it before in other posts but all our gear vintage gear needs to be restored! In a new I post I will compare my restored QRX-777 and my unrestored D-1.

Dave
 
Welcome to the Quad home on the 'net Mike! You're very lucky to have "discovered" the QRX-9001 for your first quad receiver and Dave at Chicago Audio to help get it going for you.
I've known Dave since 1994 when I managed to meet the closeknit quad community in Chicago. Dave went through my first QRX-9001 that I managed to buy from one of the quad guys there. It was from Dave that I learned some of the basic mod's that I put into my restoration of the QRX-9001. I also credit Scott Varner for his tremendous help in analyzing and modifying the Vario-Matrix decoders and starting me down the path of "upgrading" capacitors. Dave and I still communicate frequently as I also got my QSD-1000 from him.
One thing to keep in mind (as I found out with my own 9001) is that while Dave does excellent repairs and mods, he doesn't do full-blown restorations including replacing all the electrolytic caps like I do. I think he totally agrees with the basic theory. It's just that he makes his living by repairing and selling audio equipment. For him, bench time is $$....and restoring a 9001 is a long, tedious process that he just doesn't have the time to do.....and you probably couldn't afford what he would have to charge to do one at $50 per hour or so.
My first 9001 eventually had problems develop again, but luckily I had the technical knowledge and ability to start developing what has become today my "restoration" process for the 9001, which not only cures the known construction problems (thanks to Dave), but also returns the unit to as close to "new" performance as possible while insuring that it should be reliable for many more years into the future!
Recently I even restored a QRX-9001 for one of Dave's own close quad friends there in Chicago, but it probably won't need to visit his bench for another 10-15 years!
I would have to disagree with the good Quadfather about any audio bench tech being able to take care of our quad receivers and equipment though. While they can probably take care of the "basics", today's techs or even the old pro's still around don't usually have the necessary test pieces and/or skill to deal with the highly complex QRX receivers and their VM decoders. I think there's plenty of guys on the board here who've tried to go that route without much success and the waste of a lot of time and $$ in some cases. For the 9001's Dave is great for repairs and calibrations, and I'm probably it for true restoration....but beyond the two of us there isn't anyone else really "into" the technical aspects of these great receivers!

QuadBob:cool:
 
I am quite happy with the work Dave from Chicago audio did on my 9001 and it is playing quite nicely it has great separation and great sound i had numerous lights replaced and also the power switch i also had a very bad popping noise when i turned on the power switch which is now gone a few caps were replaced and the mother board was re soldered unit was cleaned and calibrated I really got my moneys worth this I know for sure for any one who does not want to go the $1000 route I would defiantly recommend Dave from Chicago audio he knows his stuff. If you want to go the full restoration bobs your man. It seems to me that the restoration bob does is great but this unit is playing very well and i really see no reason to spend $1000 to make it somewhat better. Let me ask this question if someone had a unit that was hardly used the caps would still be bad?I do not know much about electronics but I know what I got. I have a good clean sound with great separation and you still believe I should spend 1000 dollars on a unit that is almost flawless in appearance and playing and sounding great. I think I will, cross that bridge when I get there I have another 9001 that is playing fine and a 8001 back up I wont be without.
 
Hey Mike,

First off.......no doubt about it, Dave in Chicago is the original 9001 master! If it hadn't been for him and Larry Green there I would be among the many frustrated 9001 owners with various intermittent problems. But, with Dave's help at the beginning and after 10 years of research, experimentation and troubleshooting I was finally able to "discover" some issues in the 9001 that even Dave had never found the answer to. (Which I enjoyed sharing with him by the way:p )
As to your question about the electrolytic caps. They were (and are) rated at 2000 hours of use, and approx. 15 years of "storage" depending on storage temperature. The 15 years is the maximum rating at the lowest ambient temperature. So, with all 9001s (or any of our other quad gear) being at least 20 years old.......do you really think they can perform like they did when new? The answer is simply no way, and the difference is like night and day. But, as we're writing about something that can only be heard and not easily communicated without direct experience, the question I would ask is "What is your point of reference?" If you have only listened to your 9001, or another 9001 all with 20 + year old caps then that becomes your point of reference. I'm assuming you noticed a difference after Dave did the repairs and mods, so you'd agree that proper calibration and good solder connections do make a difference in the sound and performance. But, ask yourself "why did the calibration change?, and why did the solder joints go bad?"
The answer to the first part of the above question is that the caps are not holding their voltages like when they were new. So, for instance a 25vdc power supply drifts down to 18-20vdc. Some circuits can be calibrated to compensate, but many are fixed and non-adjustable.....especially the lower voltages such as 15vdc, 5vdc, etc. But, the real damage is done to more critical components than the caps. When the voltages are low......the signal current has to increase to compensate (look up Ohms Law for reference). The increased current creates more heat being generated by the resistors, overtaxes the transistors and diodes and in the final stages causes these components or the caps themselves to fail. Then you KNOW you have a problem as the circuit will not work at all.
Remember the burned out lamps you mentioned? Why do you think they burned out...........low supply voltage = increased current draw = burned filament in the bulb! The damage isn't done overnight, but it occurs slowly over time. It's interesting to me that of the over 40 restorations I've done I've never heard of a lamp or bulb blowing in a "restored" receiver! Like the other components...they won't last forever, but their life expectency if supplied with the proper voltage and current is well beyond our lifetimes!
As DC filters, the caps keep unwanted audible hums/pops/etc. out of the signal path. The audible result is that your 20yr old caps "squeeze" the signal into the midrange frequencies. So, the highs and lows go.......its all midrange and not very dynamic. Also, instead of cleanly passing a signal through....the output waveform is lower in level and not as clean and crisp as the input. Does it still make sound? Of course! Can it still sound good......only if you've never been able to A/B between a restored unit and a "perfectly working 20 + yr old unit" If you did......the difference would be quite obvious, regardless of our ever decreasing hearing ability!;)
So, just doing repairs to the solder joints or replacing the other components that have failed along with the obviously failing caps is strictly a band-aid approach. You've treated the symptoms.......but still haven't cured the root cause
.......its a 20yr old receiver!
Electronically speaking the electrolytic capacitor is the achilles heel of modern electronics. Unfortunately, as of yet we haven't discovered any other component that will do what they do for less $$. So, they are still used throughout our modern electronics and they are the "weak link" in everything from controlling voltages to filtering out unwanted noise or signals in everything we use that is electronic.
As to whether to do a restoration now, or wait until the problems become more obvious......is an easy question to answer. If the unit is "in use", then the weak/old caps are slowly but surely damaging all the rest of the components in the unit. Transistors will become weak themselves, resistors will change value, and lamp filaments will become brittle from the overcurrent condition. Recapping a unit like this will stop the degradation...but can't undue the damage already done to the other components.
So, the best results are obtained by restoring a unit that is "new in the box". In this case, the only components degraded are the caps from storage. The other components are in fact virtually "new" as they've never been run under an over-current condition.
You didn't mention how long you've owned your 9001s or 8001. But, I think the point is proven by those that have owned their units since new or for many, many years at the very least. Some of them have posted their thoughts here, but I've yet to hear any of them say they couldn't immediately tell the difference!
My own first two 9001s were restored circuit board by circuit board over the course of about 3 years. And it became an addiction.......as each board was completed and I listened, I was amazed at the improvement. I did the decoder boards first, the phono-preamp/CD-4 board next, then the pre-amp section and the 1st stage of the amp and finally the main power supply and ancillary pcbs. But, taking it apart and putting it back together again and again isn't very efficient and in doing units for people all over the country would make UPS stockholders rich!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":eek:">
So, the true cure is to do it once, do it right, replace all 264 electrolytic caps......then enjoy the hell out of it knowing that it can't sound any better, and when you turn it on it will work right.......everytime!;)

QuadBob:cool:
 
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