Peter Gabriel I/O (2CD/Blu-Ray with Dolby Atmos mix out 12/1!)

[AYanguas]

The 5.1 mix is the lossy Dolby Digital 'core', which can be extracted from the lossless (7.1 Dolby True HD) Atmos stream!

Yes.
It is called 'core' sometimes, by analogy with DTS HD-MA that really has a core DTS an then some 'extension' code that 'upgrades' the resolution from DTS to DTS HD-MA.

With TrueHD, (and Atmos) there are really separate substreams of TrueHD 7.1 and DD 5.1, within the same file, that are seen as different individual tracks, for extraction, by some tools.

 

[andi-999]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...el-io-review-glorious-late-career-masterpiece
Very nice review

 

[madship]

Somehow I have become @GOS. My copy has been in customs jail since Saturday. Closure/Continuation Live is heading into the same bottle neck, Hopefully the input of CC will output PG.

 

[M-K]

I agree it folds down to 5.1 very well. Dynamic range of the Atmos mix is also good.
The two stereo mixes are the same as on CD. And they are overcompressed. It doesn't sound that bad.
But: Was this really necessary?

Anyway the music is good although there is no "hit" like Solsbury Hill or Red Rain.

 

[inspclouseau]

Very annoyed there is only an Atmos mix on this. How hard would have a 5.1 have been to include?

Just read above. It folds down to 5.1

As was bound to happen. Dolby has successfully screwed DTS ma, and even good new releases of 5.1 hd versions by dolby are hard to come by. ('folded down'). A smooth move. The 'fold' down bit some mention sounds like SHIT out of Atmos. We are done with 'Atmos.' A vehicle especially designed for paid streaming in our opinion. Both music and movie. I may be wrong... but sticking to it. Hurt feelings? Yeah..well. The music/movie industry SUCKS. Sure do wish quad had stuck around from the beginning for music. Needed a LOT more titles..

 

[sjcorne]

Does the above post have anything to do with the Peter Gabriel disc? If so, what did you feel was lacking in the 5.1 presentation?

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

As was bound to happen. Dolby has successfully screwed DTS ma, and even good new releases of 5.1 hd versions by dolby are hard to come by. ('folded down'). A smooth move. The 'fold' down bit some mention sounds like SHIT out of Atmos. We are done with 'Atmos.' A vehicle especially designed for paid streaming in our opinion. Both music and movie. I may be wrong... but sticking to it. Hurt feelings? Yeah..well. The music/movie industry SUCKS. Sure do wish quad had stuck around from the beginning for music. Needed a LOT more titles..

As previously mentioned in post #460, you could always extract and play the 'lossy' 5.1 Dolby Digital 'core'...

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Good heavens... so the blu-ray is just Atmos height and no 5.1? What a waste, girlie won't ever let me put speakers in the ceiling.

I just ripped my copy. There is a 5.1 Dolby Digital option on the MKV rip, under the TrueHD option. I don't know how you would play it unless your disc player can default to it. Is it setup as 5.1?

Would you rather play a folded down 7.1 or a lossy 5.1? Is the 5.1DD a truly dedicated mix or a fold down from the 7.1? If it's a fold down, why is the codec different?

 

[ted_b]

I'm totally confused by folks' comments about how a Dolby Atmos mix is not backward compatible with 5.1?? It is; there is really no reason to include a dedicated 5.1 (at least that's what I was told). What is your 5.1 system outputting from this disc if not 5.1?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I'm totally confused by folks' comments about how a Dolby Atmos mix is not backward compatible with 5.1?? It is; there is really no reason to include a dedicated 5.1 (at least that's what I was told). What is your 5.1 system outputting from this disc if not 5.1?

I do think it matters if the 5.1 is a dedicated mix or a fold down. A dedicated mix is tweaked by the mixer as needed during its creation. A 7.1 fold down is going by some set mixdown algorithm contained on the disc or in the hardware.

I can say with certainty that a stereo fold down from 5.1 is not the same sonically as the dedicated stereo mix. The relative levels of some things in the mix get altered.

 

[stereoptic]

I just ripped my copy. There is a 5.1 Dolby Digital option on the MKV rip, under the TrueHD option. I don't know how you would play it unless your disc player can default to it. Is it setup as 5.1?

On my Oppo 203 I push the 'Audio' button on the remote to cycle through each mix.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

I'm totally confused by folks' comments about how a Dolby Atmos mix is not backward compatible with 5.1?? It is; there is really no reason to include a dedicated 5.1 (at least that's what I was told). What is your 5.1 system outputting from this disc if not 5.1?

You’re right! The 5.1 is the original mix without the Dolby Atmos height channels. The only reason to include a dedicated 5.1 mix is if that mix is different from the one done for Dolby Atmos.

 

[jimfisheye]

Mixes are still mixes. They're made while listening to a specific speaker array. A 7.1.4 mix is made while listening with that 12 channel array. Yes, Atmos can deliver remnants (or better) of the full mix to smaller/other speaker arrays and it just might be a better compromise than past options. It certainly is IMHO! But that's still the compromised example. The mixes aren't made in any weird way to be channel agnostic. The system is crafty with "programmable" downmixing for the compromised scenarios but the full mix for a specific speaker array is still the main event.

A mixer making a dedicated 5.1 mix while listening to a 5.1 array ensures they aren't relying on the automated downmix to get it right.

Of course previewing the full 7.1.4 mix in Atmos downmix modes is a thing! Again, it's a crafty system. I don't want to suggest anyone without the full speaker array is listening to something just altered beyond reason. But the main 12 ch mix is still the main mix and it was dialed in while listening to it on a 12 ch system.

Peter's productions sound just phenomenal! I wish there was more weird surprises in the music like in the past. It just sits there now and I'm not a lyrics/words listener.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

You’re right! The 5.1 is the original mix without the Dolby Atmos height channels. The only reason to include a dedicated 5.1 mix is if that mix is different from the one done for Dolby Atmos.

No. The 7.1 mix is the original mix without Atmos processing applied. The 5.1 is a fold down of the 7.1.

 

[sjcorne]

The mixes aren't made in any weird way to be channel agnostic. The system is crafty with "programmable" downmixing for the compromised scenarios but the full mix for a specific speaker array is still the main event.

The guy who mixed this album in Atmos disagrees with you:

When I make decisions, I’m not really thinking about the mode of presentation at all. It’s all about how to best present and draw the listener’s attention towards a musical event.

Having said that, I usually start working at home and I don’t have the space to get 12 speakers set up. It’s just not in the cards [laughs]. So, I work with headphones in the beginning, prepping things in the session. Eventually, I’ll go down to Real World Studios and listen to how it sounds there in the full speaker environment.

After doing some augmentations there, I’ll render an MP4 and listen to that with a pair of AirPods Max. There will always be some things that don’t work in headphones. It’s usually a low-end issue, things that sound just right with the speakers. So, I’ll listen back in headphones and adjust the speaker mix accordingly, knowing full well that most listeners use headphones.

https://immersiveaudioalbum.com/qa-with-hans-martin-buff-producer-engineer-3d-audio-expert/

 

[jimfisheye]

Peter Gabriel mixes are not going to be "Atmos applied to an original 7.1 mix" faux business. Real World studios would be using the full 12 channel array to mix to. Unless they're doing 16 ch 9.1.6 mixes. (I haven't looked at this one for that yet.) Unless someone has some dirt on that... These guys are the real deal and this mix isn't generated stuff after the fact.

Sorry if that was miscommunication! It sounded like an accusation they're making faux Atmos. Forgive that read if that wasn't intended. Feeling the need to defend them if it was.

 

[jimfisheye]

The guy who mixed this album in Atmos disagrees with you:

https://immersiveaudioalbum.com/qa-with-hans-martin-buff-producer-engineer-3d-audio-expert/

Perhaps that's why I don't like it very much! Oh well... I wanted to defend the mix prowess here all the same. Old Genesis fan here trying my best to keep following! It's getting harder.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

No. The 7.1 mix is the original mix without Atmos processing applied. The 5.1 is a fold down of the 7.1.

Maybe that’s changed with Dolby Atmos but I always thought 7.1 was a fold-up version of 5.1 from the two side speakers into the two back (rear) speakers because the original mix is 5.1. I just thought this continues with Dolby Atmos. Thanks for the correction!

 

[Cheezmo]

Maybe that’s changed with Dolby Atmos but I always thought 7.1 was a fold-up version of 5.1 from the two side speakers into the two back (rear) speakers because the original mix is 5.1. I just thought this continues with Dolby Atmos. Thanks for the correction!

Dolby Atmos is implemented as a 7.1 (or 5.1) base that the object metadata pulls things out of to place in the 3D surround field. I'm not sure that means that the author actually had to create a 7.1 base, that may be created algorithmically from all the object placements?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Maybe that’s changed with Dolby Atmos but I always thought 7.1 was a fold-up version of 5.1 from the two side speakers into the two back (rear) speakers because the original mix is 5.1. I just thought this continues with Dolby Atmos. Thanks for the correction!

The TrueHD mix on physical media is not 5.1. it's a 7.1 bed. During mixing they can assign the rear channels with objects and mix it that way, but they can also keep the 7 bed channels intact. It is a lossless codec.

Streaming Atmos is different. That does have a 5.1 bed and the rears are created as objects and rendered as 7.1 + heights. It is not a lossless codec.