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QuadraphonicQuad

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Which format?

  • 2 Hybrid SACDs

    Votes: 11 10.2%
  • 2 CDs + Blu-ray

    Votes: 22 20.4%
  • A standard Blu-ray.

    Votes: 75 69.4%

  • Total voters
    108

4-earredwonder

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Often overlooked is the capacity of a single layered SACD which can hold up to four hours+ of hi res STEREO content when the multichannel and CD layers are omitted.

Almost all commercially-released SACDs have included both stereo (dual-channel) and surround sound (multi-channel) mixes. However, the CD layer exists primarily for backward compatibility, but is not required. If the CD layer is omitted, the SACD need not be limited to an 80-minute playing time. For stereo material, the space that would have been taken by the multi-channel program can be used to extend playing time to four hours or more.
 

Mr. Afternoon

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Often overlooked is the capacity of a single layered SACD which can hold up to four hours+ of hi res STEREO content when the multichannel and CD layers are omitted.

Almost all commercially-released SACDs have included both stereo (dual-channel) and surround sound (multi-channel) mixes. However, the CD layer exists primarily for backward compatibility, but is not required. If the CD layer is omitted, the SACD need not be limited to an 80-minute playing time. For stereo material, the space that would have been taken by the multi-channel program can be used to extend playing time to four hours or more.
Ah, yes, but let's look at it with a bigger frame.

1. A standard DVD, which plays in far more players, could carry the lossless stereo audio with the desired 4 hour runtime.
2. If you're buying a disc for a multichannel experience longer than 80 minutes, surely Blu-ray would be more cost-effective?
3. Many people buy a disc and expect it to work in everything. Having that CD layer means more sales.

Granted none of this applies to me.
 

gene_stl

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dbPowerAmp seems to be able to output any PCM format you may want. Mostly in WAV format.
It also does MP3 with a filesize/resolution slider.
It has six compressed formats.
I saw no evidence of anything Apple.
 

DuncanS

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Often overlooked is the capacity of a single layered SACD which can hold up to four hours+ of hi res STEREO content when the multichannel and CD layers are omitted.

Almost all commercially-released SACDs have included both stereo (dual-channel) and surround sound (multi-channel) mixes. However, the CD layer exists primarily for backward compatibility, but is not required. If the CD layer is omitted, the SACD need not be limited to an 80-minute playing time. For stereo material, the space that would have been taken by the multi-channel program can be used to extend playing time to four hours or more.
The CD layer is physically on top of the SACD layer, and accessed via the 780nm laser, and the SACD layer uses a 650nm wavelength laser (the CD layer being transparent to it), so omitting the CD layer should make a single layer SACD cheaper than a hybrid disc. I believe there is the possibility of a dual layer SACD (possibly by refocusing the laser on the 2nd layer), but I don't know if any have been produced.
 

Mr. Afternoon

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The CD layer is physically on top of the SACD layer, and accessed via the 780nm laser, and the SACD layer uses a 650nm wavelength laser (the CD layer being transparent to it), so omitting the CD layer should make a single layer SACD cheaper than a hybrid disc. I believe there is the possibility of a dual layer SACD (possibly by refocusing the laser on the 2nd layer), but I don't know if any have been produced.
There are dual-layer SACDs, I believe the Celine Dion one is one of them.

EDIT: Just checked, yep, the Celine Dion compilation SACD is a dual-layer non-hybrid SACD.
 

4-earredwonder

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Ah, yes, but let's look at it with a bigger frame.

1. A standard DVD, which plays in far more players, could carry the lossless stereo audio with the desired 4 hour runtime.
2. If you're buying a disc for a multichannel experience longer than 80 minutes, surely Blu-ray would be more cost-effective?
3. Many people buy a disc and expect it to work in everything. Having that CD layer means more sales.

Granted none of this applies to me.

I do know that Howard Shore's soundtracks for Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings TRILOGY on DVD~A 5.1 48/24 set a pretty decent record for uber long playing times in multichannel and of course each box set came with accompanying RBCDs.

Although, TBH, sitting through hours upon hours of Shore's brilliant output in one or even two sittings [sans picture] can be quite mind numbing!

Admittedly, I have all three DVD~A boxsets ....and have only listened to them ONCE, as I now own the trilogy in Native UHD4K!

ODIzLTM4NDEucG5n.jpeg
 
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Mr. Afternoon

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I do know that Howard Shore's soundtracks for Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings TRILOGY on DVD~A 5.1 48/24 set a pretty decent record for uber long playing times in multichannel and of course each box set came with accompanying RBCDs.

Although, TBH, sitting through hours upon hours of Shore's brilliant output in one or even two sittings [sans picture] can be quite mind numbing!

Admittedly, I have all three DVD~A boxsets ....and have only listened to them ONCE, as I now own the trilogy in Native UHD4K!

ODIzLTM4NDEucG5n.jpeg
1. It is a dual-layered disc, probably stretching the limits of the capacity of the format.
2. 24/48. Not a deal breaker, obviously, but I do think any modern music would be delivered in 24/96. However, The Golden Bonana was an exception purely because of the equipment used for recording. Likewise here, the original masters are actually 24/48, and I'm sure if it was 24/96 it would have been split on 2 discs.
3. A more conservative mix of music, that too, of an orchestra, will have a lower bitrate in MLP than, let's say, me spinning guitars around the room in a more complex track.

However, I do see your point made. 180 minutes of audio on this release, and on 1 disc. However, if the resolution of this release was 24/96, it would be a whopping 12GB compressed for the MC alone, needing to be split across two discs.
 
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4-earredwonder

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1. It is a dual-layered disc, probably stretching the limits of the capacity of the format.
2. 24/48. Not a deal breaker, obviously, but I do think any modern music would be delivered in 24/96. However, The Golden Bonana was an exception purely because of the equipment used for recording. Likewise here, the original masters are actually 24/48, and I'm sure if it was 24/96 it would have been split on 2 discs.
3. A more conservative mix of music, that too, of an orchestra, will have a lower bitrate in MLP than, let's say, me spinning guitars around the room in a more complex track.

However, I do see your point made. 180 minutes of audio on this release, and on 1 disc. However, if the resolution of this release was 24/96, it would be a whopping 12GB compressed for the MC alone, needing to be split across two discs.

MOST DVD~A players [My Meridian 800 Reference DVD~A player included] UPSAMPLE 48/24 to 96/24 and if you can REALLY hear the minute difference, I'm awaiting your autobiography "My Life As A DOG!"
 

Mr. Afternoon

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MOST DVD~A players [My Meridian 800 Reference DVD~A player included] UPSAMPLE 48/24 to 96/24 and if you can REALLY hear the minute difference, I'm awaiting your autobigraphy "My Life As A DOG!"
Upsampling doesn't add missing information.
Not that ultrasonic sound matters, but I'm not trying to start another audiophile war here.
 

4-earredwonder

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Upsampling doesn't add missing information.
Not that ultrasonic sound matters, but I'm not trying to start another audiophile war here.

But the difference is so minute as to be imperceptible. I'll never forget when APPLE Records released the 17 disc flash drive of the Beatles discography...it was 44.1/24 ..... THE NERVE!


See the source image
 

gene_stl

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dBPowerAmp also accesses the Accurate Rip database so it's rips are as accurate as EAC. It is much more convenient than EAC.
I have seen references to a paid version of EAC that does some of the same tricks as dBPA but have never used it.
 

Mr. Afternoon

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dBPowerAmp also accesses the Accurate Rip database so it's rips are as accurate as EAC. It is much more convenient than EAC.
I have seen references to a paid version of EAC that does some of the same tricks as dBPA but have never used it.
1. EAC is not paid.
2. AccurateRip, despite the name, is actually not that accurate AFAIK. EAC takes a crap ton of time because it bypasses a bunch of the annoying things that CD Drives do that can mess up the audio (like caching). dBPowerAmp doesn't do it if I remember correctly.
 

boondocks

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The usual caveats...my hearing is not as good as it once was, ears have been ringing for decades, etc. etc
When it comes to 24/96 vs 24/48 lossless I'm pretty sure I would fail any sort of true test.
But...and it's a big but...many artists are still releasing in DTS, a lossy format. Off the top of my head, Magenta and many of Rob Reed's commercial releases, e.g.
In this case I would much prefer 24/96. I feel the sound is more open and cleaner sounding. Whether that's a figment of my imagination or not, or just skill in mastering, that's how I perceive it.

Back to the question at hand. I would prefer a Blu-Ray alone over any number of CD's or SACD's. I just almost never play CD's these days save DTS-CD's (of which I have over 130 commercial discs IIRC). Plus I have a lot of upmixes on CD's still that I pull out once in a while.
 

weekendtoy

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IMO, little reason to rip 2 channel SACDs. I only bother with multich stuff.

As I said, I rip the 2 channel layer for portable playback on a FiiO DAP. I use it at the gym, working in the garden, on a run, in the car, on the motorcycle, working in the garage, and a host of other situations. I don't need or want a 5.1 rip for that.
 

Sal1950

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As I said, I rip the 2 channel layer for portable playback on a FiiO DAP. I use it at the gym, working in the garden, on a run, in the car, on the motorcycle, working in the garage, and a host of other situations. I don't need or want a 5.1 rip for that.
Oh I understood,
I was more thinking about the non-hybred SACD that you'd have to learn to rip to get anything off of..
 

gene_stl

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Accurate Rip is likely the same for both dbPowerAmp and EAC. I have not heard of any other programs that use it.

dB does a couple of passes both with and without caching so that if the drives cache is helpful it is utilized. If it increases the number or errors that are not detected initially it turns it off.
 
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