Quatermass

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d0zer

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amazon.de just cancelled my preorder without further information, so I ordered from cherry red...
 

inquadwetrust

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Arrived this morning, just listening to it now. Options are as above for DTS or DD but I'm very sad to say it's a little too compressed for my ears, even the DTS. Rears are active but not always, there seems to be a slide from big stereo/ambience to being utterly discrete to full-on bonkers panning, often within the same song.

Good value though with nice packaging design and a very solid prog album in the vein of ELP/KC/PF. But I can't crank it - however let your own ears be your judge.
 

fredblue

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reading the liner notes on the remix it appears that this is an upmix... the multi-tracks for the album could not be located, only for the One Blind Mice single (recorded at AIR Studios, the multi-track masters for which were found).. for the rest of the surround remix 4-track sources (unreleased Quad? hence the v.discrete surround effect on a couple of tracks!?) were used where possible.. the rest (the majority) appear to have been manipulated into surround using "digital trickery" from a stereo CD..?!? :yikes
 

inquadwetrust

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reading the liner notes on the remix it appears that this is an upmix... the multi-tracks for the album could not be located, only for the One Blind Mice single (recorded at AIR Studios, the multi-track masters for which were found).. for the rest of the surround remix 4-track sources (unreleased Quad? hence the v.discrete surround effect on a couple of tracks!?) were used where possible.. the rest (the majority) appear to have been manipulated into surround using "digital trickery" from a stereo CD..?!? :yikes
I'm selling mine then! Thanks for the info.
 

rusinurbe

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Its not quite the sonic disaster I was expecting given the source material.

i am happy to have this in 2.1/5.1 quirky though it is at times. One of my favorite albums and so a keeper untill something better comes along.
 

Ranasakawa

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reading the liner notes on the remix it appears that this is an upmix... the multi-tracks for the album could not be located, only for the One Blind Mice single (recorded at AIR Studios, the multi-track masters for which were found).. for the rest of the surround remix 4-track sources (unreleased Quad? hence the v.discrete surround effect on a couple of tracks!?) were used where possible.. the rest (the majority) appear to have been manipulated into surround using "digital trickery" from a stereo CD..?!? :yikes
I am yet to receive my order of this but this news is a real kick in the guts. Anyone can do an upmix, if they couln't mix it from the master tapes then they shouldn't have bothered selling this as a 5.1 (mix) !


Not happy :mad:
 

Neil Palfreyman

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reading the liner notes on the remix it appears that this is an upmix... the multi-tracks for the album could not be located, only for the One Blind Mice single (recorded at AIR Studios, the multi-track masters for which were found).. for the rest of the surround remix 4-track sources (unreleased Quad? hence the v.discrete surround effect on a couple of tracks!?) were used where possible.. the rest (the majority) appear to have been manipulated into surround using "digital trickery" from a stereo CD..?!? :yikes
I thought despite that they have still done a very good job. Extremely discrete for a lot of the time - in fact a lot better than many supposedly "full" surround mixes. The over-compression dissappointed me a lot more. But still very enjoyable and worth having, imho.
 

zabble

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Ranasakawa said:
Anyone can do an upmix
I expect a sharp retort coming for this remark (though not from me). I am bummed out about this. Hopefully my lowered expectations will help when I play it after it arrives.
 

fredblue

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I am yet to receive my order of this but this news is a real kick in the guts. Anyone can do an upmix, if they couln't mix it from the master tapes then they shouldn't have bothered selling this as a 5.1 (mix) !


Not happy :mad:
as I posted in the "Listening To In Surround" QQ thread last night while listening to this...

Qn. ..why was a 5.1 remix persevered with when it was discovered that almost all of the multi's were missing??
:mad:@:
 

fredblue

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as I posted in the "Listening To In Surround" QQ thread last night while listening to this...

:mad:@:
..and meantime, while I salute Cherry Red for supporting 5.1 every now and again, they have missed opportunity upon opportunity with surround mixes that are in the can yet they sanction time & money wasted on this "effort".. I'm referring to things like their 40th Anniversary release of The O'Jays' "Ship Ahoy" where there was a golden opportunity to reissue the long out of print Quad>5.1 SACD mix, even as a DTS DVD (though preferably DVDA, of course) as the SACD is scarce now and ordinarily fetches high prices there must surely be a demand, I bet it would have sold well.. plus they reissued Isley Brothers & Billy Paul albums where there are Quad mixes - why not seek out, license & issue those on DVD instead of squandering money/studio time on an unaccomplished upmix..!? I don't have anything against upmixes per se, its just this one is inconsistent at best and incompetent at worst.. just doesn't add up to me :(
 

Ranasakawa

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I expect a sharp retort coming for this remark (though not from me). I am bummed out about this. Hopefully my lowered expectations will help when I play it after it arrives.
What I meant is there are 1000s of albums in collectors circles that have been upmixed by fans, such as Sgt Pepper and Abbey Road etc. There is software readily available for anyone who knows how to do it.
I personally don't use this software as time is a factor for me.
 

LizardKing

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reading the liner notes on the remix it appears that this is an upmix... the multi-tracks for the album could not be located, only for the One Blind Mice single (recorded at AIR Studios, the multi-track masters for which were found).. for the rest of the surround remix 4-track sources (unreleased Quad? hence the v.discrete surround effect on a couple of tracks!?) were used where possible.. the rest (the majority) appear to have been manipulated into surround using "digital trickery" from a stereo CD..?!? :yikes
OK - I've played the stereo PCM through my Surround Master - and (no suprise here) it sounds much better.

The weird thing is that 5.1 mix does seem to have some discrete stuff in the rears - The notes say "some 4 track tapes"...., but its far and few and far between....:mad:@:

Even the "One Blind Mice" track which is from the "true multis" sounds much better through the Surround Master...
 

jefe1

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I don't know whether I should return this or not to amazon (package just came) and just look for an old cd. Kind of a deception going on here. If the stereo synthesizes better than the alleged 5.1 mix this is quite a fiasco.
 

Ranasakawa

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I'm going to hold onto this as I don't own any previous CD of this album, hopefully it will arrive soon.
The 5 CD Gentle Giant recent box set is almost unplayable mostly bootleg quality so this will be the 2nd package I wasted money on.
 

rusinurbe

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I don't know whether I should return this or not to amazon (package just came) and just look for an old cd. Kind of a deception going on here. If the stereo synthesizes better than the alleged 5.1 mix this is quite a fiasco.
What deception? its quite clear from the linear notes what the source material is.

In that respect its refreshingly honest.

I was expecting worse and has been pointed out its quirky at times very discrete where able. Yes I would love to have had the full album from muti-track tapes in 5.1 DVDA or blu ray with Steven Wilson remixing but that just does not happen all the time.
 

Bas

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I have bought the new set and listened to the surround mix. Considering that Peter Robinson had to use a variety of sources to create this album he has done a superb job.
In the booklet Peter explains exactly what he did. Here is a short list:

1 One Blind Mice...from true multitrack
2. Entropy..from stereo
3. Black Sheep Of The Family....from four track (please dont confuse this with a supposed unreleased quad, there was no such thing)
4. Post War Saturday Ech....from three track
5. Good Lord Knows....from true multitrack
6. Up On The Ground...from six track
7. Gemini....from six track
8. Make Up Your Mind....from stereo
9. What Was That....from stereo
10. Make Up Your Mind Reprise....from stereo
11. Laughin Tackle.... from eight track
12. Punting....from stereo
13. Afraid Not....from stereo
14. Bluegaloo (etc)....from stereo

So if it is your opinion that it is only allowed to create surround albums from true multitrack sources all the way, then steer clear.
However if you are curious how Peter Robinson managed to create an immensely listenable and enjoyable experience, centered on the music he helped to create 43 years ago, then you should definitely get this set.
And remember at the low asking price, even the great new stereo CD remix is already worth the price of admission!

Leaving these technicalities aside, I just love listening to the new 5.1 version of Quatermass, and I am prefectly happy to accept that some challenges were faced in creating these mixes.
Thank you Peter Robinson and of course also John Gustafsson and Mick Underwood, not forgetting the late great Steve Hammond.
 

fredblue

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I have bought the new set and listened to the surround mix. Considering that Peter Robinson had to use a variety of sources to create this album he has done a superb job.
In the booklet Peter explains exactly what he did. Here is a short list:

1 One Blind Mice...from true multitrack
2. Entropy..from stereo
3. Black Sheep Of The Family....from four track (please dont confuse this with a supposed unreleased quad, there was no such thing)
4. Post War Saturday Ech....from three track
5. Good Lord Knows....from true multitrack
6. Up On The Ground...from six track
7. Gemini....from six track
8. Make Up Your Mind....from stereo
9. What Was That....from stereo
10. Make Up Your Mind Reprise....from stereo
11. Laughin Tackle.... from eight track
12. Punting....from stereo
13. Afraid Not....from stereo
14. Bluegaloo (etc)....from stereo

So if it is your opinion that it is only allowed to create surround albums from true multitrack sources all the way, then steer clear.
However if you are curious how Peter Robinson managed to create an immensely listenable and enjoyable experience, centered on the music he helped to create 43 years ago, then you should definitely get this set.
And remember at the low asking price, even the great new stereo CD remix is already worth the price of admission!

Leaving these technicalities aside, I just love listening to the new 5.1 version of Quatermass, and I am prefectly happy to accept that some challenges were faced in creating these mixes.
Thank you Peter Robinson and of course also John Gustafsson and Mick Underwood, not forgetting the late great Steve Hammond.
the surround mix he created (and how and why he did it) is a subjective thing ("YMMV" as they say, you like it, I'm not a fan and even with the limitations of the source material I feel there are many instances where it could have been done differently & imo better) but I don't see how the quality of the mastering can be up for grabs, it's a loud stodgy compressed mess, I doubt I'll ever come to love listening to it, despite enjoying the music itself.

ps. how do you know for a fact there was no unreleased quad mix? did you work on this project or have proof of the facts from those involved in this release or the album itself? otherwise its just your opinion.. so it'd be preferable if you said you didn't think there was a quad as opposed to definitively stating there wasn't if you don't know for sure.

my bottom line is the disc sounds horrible because its been maximised in mastering and worse still half of what's on the DVD is from stereo ("digital trickery" used on the CD, the liners imply) which just doesn't work for me as a bonafide 5.1 remix, it's a partial upmix from stereo with a handful of tracks erratically/inconsistently remixed into surround. in the right hands even with the source tape issues this could have been great, as Steven Wilson showed with his Hawkwind 5.1 it can be done, that is also a mixture of upmixing and remixing from the multitracks but it hasn't been compressed to death in mastering and the surround mix has been created by someone with a great talent for surround music mixing and a host of classics reworked into 5.1 under his belt.
 

jefe1

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The fact is , all of this upmixing was not described on the Cherry Red website or the amazon description. You would have had to buy this set and open it up to find out about the upmixing. If Im wrong I apologize. I'm worried more about the compression/brickwalling problem. If its going to hurt my ears I wont listen to it, no matter how good the mix might be..... Does the cd stereo mix suffer from the same problem?

This is an argument for only allowing Steven Wilson to take on these legacy remixing projects.
 

Bas

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Of course you are entitled to have your own opinion as I am entitled to mine. It is well establised that EMI in the UK only began making QUAD albums by 1974, long after Quatermass´ demise. If there had been a QUAD mix peter Robinson would have used them and stated this. I felt that the previous contributor who surmised a quad mix was off into a wrong direction.
 
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