Reality Technologies Surround Master - Owners Thread

[chucky3042]

Hi Bmoura

Thank you for the review and general comments. In particular your remarks about Qsound are very accurate as we have experienced the same tracks. Qsound is a great format - just wish it was used more.

In regard to our comments on the comparison between Surround Master and Discrete formats, perhaps I should clarify. I think some of our more "sales" orientated claims that Surround Master decoding of stereo is always better than Discrete was a little over enthusiastic (but well meaning). My observations are as follows:

1 Discrete will almost always sound better and certainly more accurate for a NON encoded (no PL2, EV, QS) straight stereo recording. A good example is the straight unencoded Money on DSOTM - the discrete is definitely more accurate and sounds better.

2 We claim that when WE encode a discrete track with INVOLVE and decode the resultant "stereo" with INVOLVE that audiences prefer slightly (most cannot pick any difference) prefer the matrixed compared to the discrete. We claim that the INVOLVE decoder actually uncovers some additional detailed surround information missing in the discrete.

3 In our large demo home theater demonstration facility in Dromana/ Melbourne we have set up a $40K 7.1 based system by requesting the supplier to put in "the best" system they can do. It uses top end components including the Lexicon surround processor. In parallel with that system we installed a full INVOLVE system (with Total Perspective) that is driven from the L and R stereo composite. So far ALL listeners (test victims) we have trialled in the room definitely prefer the INVOLVE to the discrete when playing material with Dolby or DTS stereo composite against the discrete tracks. Again if the source material has been encoded I find we generally get preferred.

Hope that is clearer?????

regards

Chucky

 

[bmoura]

Thanks for the comments. Certainly when there is no Discrete Surround version available, the Surround Master is very helpful with a very convincing substitute.

On QSound, I never paid that much attention to it before. But that has changed now! The Madonna and Roger Waters CDs with QSound are pretty amazing via the Surround Master.

And that brings me to a question - you mentioned a week ago that the Roger Waters "Amused to Death" QSound CD was one of the Involve "Reference CDs" used to develop and test the system.
Is there a place on your web site where you list the other reference CDs? I'd like to see that list...

 

[LizardKing]

From the Acoustic Sounds website on the SACD re-issue of Roger Waters - Amused to Death:

"Amused To Death was originally mixed using QSound, a virtual surround sound, enhancing the spatial feel of the music along with the various sound effects sprinkled throughout the album. The Analogue Productions' reissue will faithfully preserve this three-dimensional experience."


The SACD played via the Surround Master will be the way to go..

 

[bmoura]

From the Acoustic Sounds website on the SACD re-issue of Roger Waters - Amused to Death:

"Amused To Death was originally mixed using QSound, a virtual surround sound, enhancing the spatial feel of the music along with the various sound effects sprinkled throughout the album. The Analogue Productions' reissue will faithfully preserve this three-dimensional experience."


The SACD played via the Surround Master will be the way to go..

I'm sure that will be pretty amazing. Even playing the Amused to Death CD with QSound now is impressive !
I wonder if Chucky has thought of contacting James Guthrie and Chad Kassem and offering them a Surround Master or two to hear the results?

 

[fredblue]

I'm sure that will be pretty amazing. Even playing the Amused to Death CD with QSound now is impressive !
I wonder if Chucky has thought of contacting James Guthrie and Chad Kassem and offering them a Surround Master or two to hear the results?

brilliant idea! get a few Surround Master units into the hands of these guys and when they see (or rather hear!) the results the snowball will a-roll!

 

[chucky3042]

Hi Bmoura and Fredblue

Yes I agree that it would be a good idea to contact those guys, at the very least they could comment on how faithful the SM decodes the Qsound recordings from their expectations. But yes, commercially these are the types of contacts we need to get our encode decode into the mainstream surround market. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated and rewarded.

Please note our basic encoder is available but we are a bit slow in getting the purchasing details and a few license details to our website - its RRP is $650 and includes a lifetime license. Dave (overture) has virtually completed the studio pro encoder design and will be ready in a few months. I mention this as it is very relevant to getting people/ recording studio's to start recording in Involve as we claim it sounds identical to stereo but decodes to an exceptional surround.

Dave (overture) will publish a list of our test tracks tomorrow - subject to interruptions, distractions, disasters and facebook.

regards

Chucky

 

[bmoura]

Hi Bmoura and Fredblue

Yes I agree that it would be a good idea to contact those guys, at the very least they could comment on how faithful the SM decodes the Qsound recordings from their expectations. But yes, commercially these are the types of contacts we need to get our encode decode into the mainstream surround market. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated and rewarded.

Please note our basic encoder is available but we are a bit slow in getting the purchasing details and a few license details to our website - its RRP is $650 and includes a lifetime license. Dave (overture) has virtually completed the studio pro encoder design and will be ready in a few months. I mention this as it is very relevant to getting people/ recording studio's to start recording in Involve as we claim it sounds identical to stereo but decodes to an exceptional surround.

Dave (overture) will publish a list of our test tracks tomorrow - subject to interruptions, distractions, disasters and facebook.

regards

Chucky

Thanks for the update. I'll watch for the list!

 

[beached]

FYI - Steely Dan - Aja on a casual listen wasn't as good as an old DTS CD upmix I've got....

Tiki - Past, Present, Future (NZ Music)... I wish I could record some of the tracks to show you guys samples. On one track the "electric buzz" sound goes around all four speakers.. sounds totally discrete!!!!

Blackfield II is another winner....

What edition of AJA?. If it was the SACD I am not surprised. It has a constrained sound stage. The SHMCD is fully active thru the SM and sounds great..

 

[Disclord]

If anyone here is into Marc Almond and owns his album "Mother Fist... And Her Five Daughters" you are in for an incredible aural experience with the SM/SQ/QS unit. In the song "Saint Judy" (as in Garland) Marc Almonds voice is located totally in the left channel with sounds and instruments swirling between the stereo channels. With the Involve his voice never moves from the Left Front, even when strong sounds are pulling to the rear channels - towards the end of the song a chorus starts singing "Get Happy" in the right channel and both Marc's voice and the chorus are totally seperated with the rears still sporting the sound effects. Via the Fosgate Tate, the stronger instruments will sometimes "pull" Marc's voice to the rear channels momentarily or quickly smear the Get Happy chorus with Marc's voice in the back.

using the Fosgate as a 270 degree preprocessor for decoding in the SQ mode, Marc's voice is literally locked in the back left channel, as is the Get Happy chorus in the right, with the front channels sporting the various instruments and sound effects between LCR. Played via only the Tate in Surround mode, Marc's voice will pull to the front if a more predominant sound occurs.

the SM is amazing - I'm listening to CD's and LaserDisc's that I haven't played in a long time. The LaserDisc of Liza and Friends is encoded in Shure's Stereosurround process which encodes a full range mono rear channel (unlike Dolby MP's bandwidth limited rear channel) and the SM in QS mode makes it sound like a true quad recording. I just keep being more amazed by this little box. I'm gonna have to find room to hook up my Sony SQD-2020 though so I can use its wonderful VU meters.

oh, and BTW, the Runco LJR-I Super LaserDisc Player makes this CD sound better than any other CD player I've heard it on, including a belt driven unit.

 

[Disclord]

Thanks for the comments. Certainly when there is no Discrete Surround version available, the Surround Master is very helpful with a very convincing substitute.

On QSound, I never paid that much attention to it before. But that has changed now! The Madonna and Roger Waters CDs with QSound are pretty amazing via the Surround Master.

And that brings me to a question - you mentioned a week ago that the Roger Waters "Amused to Death" QSound CD was one of the Involve "Reference CDs" used to develop and test the system.
Is there a place on your web site where you list the other reference CDs? I'd like to see that list...

I have to agree that Madonna's Immaculate Collection in QSound decodes wonderfully via the SM, even though QSound was never meant to be decoded. The last two tracks, Justify My Love and Rescue Me are, sadly, not in QSound though and I wish QSound had been used on The Beast Within version of Justify... It could be really creepy in full surround.

another good QSound album is Paula Abdul's first album, the title of which escapes me at the moment.

the Desper Spatializer HTMS-2510 home unit (a brand new one is on eBay for $39 BIN), on its lowest setting creates some great quad effects via the SM, as does the original Hughes SRS units - only the Hughes brand SRS units have the variable servo to keep the effects under control - the later units from NuReality and such just apply a non-variable effect that creates too much out of phase info and is unpleasant to listen to.

 

[LizardKing]

What edition of AJA?. If it was the SACD I am not surprised. It has a constrained sound stage. The SHMCD is fully active thru the SM and sounds great..

FYI - Just a plain old CD Remaster of AJA.

 

[fredblue]

FYI - Just a plain old CD Remaster of AJA.

Have you tried this CD of Aja?

 

[fredblue]

Have you tried this CD of Aja?

Just to add its the UK CD (MCLD 19145) Steve Hoffman cites as his mastering (its a bit of a hot potato that topic as to who mastered what on which pressing where! I'm sure Steely Dan fans on here know only too well) but whoever did it, it sounds wonderful (soooo much better than the remaster) and not bad through PLII Music.

 

[bmoura]

FYI - Just a plain old CD Remaster of AJA.

I have the SHM-SACD of AJA here. Very nice via 4 Channel Synthesized Quad via the Surround Master.

 

[bmoura]

One more note - while there's a lot of focus on Stereo Synthesis and Matrix Decoding, don't forget to try the Surround Master on the many movies on Netflix that are encoded as 2 Channel Stereo or Dolby 2 Channel Surround vs. 5.1. I've had some good results there as well.

The Surround Master investment just keeps paying dividends !

 

[atrocity]

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If anyone here is into Marc Almond and owns his album "Mother Fist... And Her Five Daughters"

A long-time favorite! Was just playing some Almond vinyl (the 12" of "The House Is Haunted") through the SM over the weekend and wasn't especially blown away.

But later I played the Eurythmics "Ball and Chain" off the B-side of "Sisters are Doing It for Themselves"...the bit at the end where the sound normally goes back and forth between the front channels instead ran counterclockwise around the room!

There's also a track (not the title one) off Romeo Void's "Never Say Never" EP where some little drum fills alternate between all four channels.

 

[Q8]

So any prospects for any releases with Involve encoding yet? It will be nice to have some things actually encoded with Involve.

 

[Shnicks]

I've had my Surround Master in line for about a week now and am absolutely loving it. Congratulations and many thanks to the Involve team for this extraordinary innovation. Thanks so much to the QQ forum as well, If I were not a member here I never would have discovered the wonders of the SM.

Cheers!

 

[Disclord]

I've had my Surround Master in line for about a week now and am absolutely loving it. Congratulations and many thanks to the Involve team for this extraordinary innovation. Thanks so much to the QQ forum as well, If I were not a member here I never would have discovered the wonders of the SM.

Cheers!

Which one did you get? The standard version or the SQ version?

 

[Shnicks]

Got the SQ, mostly using the Involve setting so far. Looking forward to getting more into the SQ mode shortly.