rhino quadio not playing correctly with denon avr-x1000

[DrKlahn]

Sorry to hear this is still a problem. My Marantz 7702 K2 didn't like 4.0 either. The Integra before it did fine. I wish I was on this forum back then to know it wasn't just me. So much time wasted with Marantz support. I ended up, like others, adding phantom channels. But I would've still rather just put in the disc and listened vs. playing the digital files.

The current preamp (Lyngdorf) plays these fine. Shows input 4.0.0 and output 4.0.0. Denon - Marantz really needs to address this.

 

[jimfisheye]

Best bet is to treat anything in between 2.0 and 5.1 as obsoleted and put it into 5.1 containers. Shouldn't have to. The mistake is with the device makers. But not looking to move the mountain today so... 5.1 it is!
(A little ffmpeg script. It's lossless. Takes zero more space in FLAC. Zap any new album as I get it and never look back.)

I'm constantly amazed at the juxtaposition I see with some people between the old school encoded analog surround formats and the fully discrete 24 bit digital formats. Digital is a little bit cryptic, sure. There are some bad players in the arena today with their software spoofing turned up to 11. But setting up and working those analog formats and getting sound out that even resembled the sound of the studio master as intended was fucking hard and took engineering chops! Sure sound might always come out. Sound that doesn't resemble the mix in any way shape or form is meaningless.

You just need to plug an audio interface into any computer and you have the world and sky above! (Literally now with Atmos ) Super reasonably priced gear with a ton of bang for the buck. And people are talking like digital is impossible and want their encoded vinyl back?! That's just crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy! Do what makes you happy and I don't mean to tell anyone what to do and all. But seriously?!

 

[atrocity]

sadly there is no way that I know to edit out the extra channels or to replace them with silent ones, without conversion to PCM.

There are forks of SoX that can do this. Just use remix as you would for PCM but feed it a .dff or .dsf file.

I've used https://github.com/mansr/sox but I see there's now also https://github.com/turbulentie/sox-dsd-win, with which I have no experience.

 

[atrocity]

100% of quad SACDs are either 5.0 (Audio Fidelity) or 5.1 (Dutton-Vocalion, Analogue Productions) and the vast majority of PCM releases of quat material have been authored the same way.

I've recently learned that if you're using Kodi on an NVidia Shield, even 5.0 isn't enough. Anything other than 2.0, 5.1 and (I think) 7.1 will not play properly, PCM or DSD.

The same files played via Kodi on a Raspberry Pi 4 into the same receiver work perfectly. I don't know if it's an Android limitation (but I hope so, just to give me another reason to hate Google) or something peculiar to the Shield.

 

[par4ken]

So if I understand this correctly, you could configure the Oppo for 4.0 playback and properly play PCM 4.0 with silent channels and everything gets assigned properly. The Oppo will also downmix true 5.1 PCM to 4.0 with no issue.

The problem comes with MCH SACD. It can't downmix 5.1/5.0 DSD to 4.0 without converting to PCM, and that is not acceptable for you. Correct?

The Oppo plays 4.0 or with or without silent (C or Lfe) channels, it doesn't matter. It also plays the back channels whether coded as surround back or surround side. The Oppo will downmix (PCM) 5.1 to 4.0 depending on how you set it up. You just tell it you have no centre or sub. I did have to use side speakers instead of back, I'm not sure why.

You can't downmix DSD without converting to PCM. It is not that it is unacceptable, it is just what it is. I have to do the mixing myself in the analogue domain, or else set the Oppo to convert to PCM.

 

[par4ken]

There are forks of SoX that can do this. Just use remix as you would for PCM but feed it a .dff or .dsf file.

I've used https://github.com/mansr/sox but I see there's now also https://github.com/turbulentie/sox-dsd-win, with which I have no experience.

Does it do so without converting back and forth to PCM? I'll have to check it out!

 

[atrocity]

Does it do so without converting back and forth to PCM? I'll have to check it out!

I can't say for sure, but it's certainly supposed to.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

hi
i recently bought black sabbath paranoid in by rhino in quadio.
it sounds like crap.
at the shop where i bought i was told to put it in the b/r player and it would play in quad.
it does not. i can't hear "I am iron man" and the whole disc sounds more like mono.
as for the b/r player all the channels seems to be there. if i adjust the receiver denon avr-x1000 i can hear "i am iron man" but then it knocks off the rear channels.
what am i doing wrong?

Back to the OPs problem. If anyone has your specific AVR they would know best. Have you looked if there are any firmware updates for the AVR?

 

[jimfisheye]

Small steps are OK too!
You have an AV receiver with HDMI input, right?
Probably have a computer with a thunderbolt port too? If you do, you could plug a thunderbolt to HDMI cable to the AVR and try a media player on the computer.

If the other choice is a potentially bricking firmware update for a stand alone disc player or having to rip, tinker with, and then burn a new disc, the above might be an easier thing to try. And then you'd have made the leap to using your computer for this.

 

[fizzywiggs41]

My olde Yamaha works just fine , but it is basic in its Surround offerings , and when I play quad blurays from my Sony UBPX800 M2, combo player , my Yamaha selects the appropriate stream (it's set to "AUTO") , in this case DTS.

Now I'm soon to be purchasing a new Yamaha unit ....so.......

My question is , is the problem playing back quad bluray , dvd , etc ..with the new Receivers that have Atmos , or just an HDMI thing.??


FWIW I'm considering a 7.1 Receiver , also Yamaha .

 

[LuvMyQuad]

My olde Yamaha works just fine , but it is basic in its Surround offerings , and when I play quad blurays from my Sony UBPX800 M2, combo player , my Yamaha selects the appropriate stream (it's set to "AUTO") , in this case DTS.

Now I'm soon to be purchasing a new Yamaha unit ....so.......

My question is , is the problem playing back quad bluray , dvd , etc ..with the new Receivers that have Atmos , or just an HDMI thing.??


FWIW I'm considering a 7.1 Receiver , also Yamaha .

I know for a fact it happens in older 5.1 receivers. So it's not an Atmos thing.

 

[mandrix]

My olde Yamaha works just fine , but it is basic in its Surround offerings , and when I play quad blurays from my Sony UBPX800 M2, combo player , my Yamaha selects the appropriate stream (it's set to "AUTO") , in this case DTS.

Now I'm soon to be purchasing a new Yamaha unit ....so.......

My question is , is the problem playing back quad bluray , dvd , etc ..with the new Receivers that have Atmos , or just an HDMI thing.??


FWIW I'm considering a 7.1 Receiver , also Yamaha .

It's not that the AVR's have Atmos, and nothing to do with HDMI.

My AVR plays 4.0. Just saying. There are other things I have a beef with, but in "Direct Mode" what goes in, comes out.

I have another AVR that has problems with 4.0 , but it's a tad older. Maybe someone woke up? IDK.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

There is a thread somewhere on the site where they started keeping track of models that did/did not have the issue.

 

[mandrix]

There is a thread somewhere on the site where they started keeping track of models that did/did not have the issue.

Yes, and one by myself somewhere in the past where I was dumbfounded I was only getting stereo out from Quad on a particular device.

 

[madscot]

The quadio is dts-hd-ma, the denon receiver plays dts-hd-ma, not sure why there would be a problem unless there’s something in the settings? Maybe it’s set to default to pcm instead of bitstream? I have a denon avr and the Paranoid quadio plays as soon as I put it in the player

 

[madscot]

There is a thread somewhere on the site where they started keeping track of models that did/did not have the issue.

If I remember correctly that is for 4.0 pcm, not dts-hd-ma

 

[barfle]

While I’m sympathetic to thise who can’t play certain filetypes (there’s another discussion around here on that topic), the fact that compatibility across all media thpes, file types, and hardware is never guaranteed. I can’t decode Atmos, I can’t play DSD256 (I tried), and I can’t play Edison cylinders. I intend to remedy some of that, but not all.

Would it be better (for some) if Rhino shipped product labeled “quad” with C and LFE channels? Apparently so, and it apparently wouldn’t harm anything except the desire to maintain a 4 channel environment through the entire publishing process. I also feel that D-V would be more compatible if they used blu-ray instead of SACD, but it’s their business, and my business sense is known to be flawed.

I don’t know what all the possible DVD or Blu-ray audio formats are. So far, my Oppo does fine with everything except Atmos, which it recognizes as 5.1 or7.1, and plays either through my 5.1 setup. But not everyone was able to get on the Oppo bandwagon, so I realize I’m fortunate that way. And not everyone has the desire to build a setup in the same way I have. It’s always going to be a case of “ya pays yer money an’ ya takes yer cherce” when it comes to compatibility.

Back to the OP, do you have other quadio discs that play properly? While it’s been a bit since the thread opened, I don’t remember seeing that question.

 

[par4ken]

If I remember correctly that is for 4.0 pcm, not dts-hd-ma

You would think that it would work the same for both on any given unit. I think that it is time to find and revive that thread about compatible models, or start a new one!

Would it be better (for some) if Rhino shipped product labeled “quad” with C and LFE channels? Apparently so, and it apparently wouldn’t harm anything except the desire to maintain a 4 channel environment through the entire publishing process. I also feel that D-V would be more compatible if they used blu-ray instead of SACD, but it’s their business, and my business sense is known to be flawed.

I think that the older releases did have silent channels but I'm not sure. I still find it odd this thing about channels being coded as side instead of back. Not an issue with the Oppo but another source of possible incompatibility. For my use via computer I want them encoded as back, but for others they need them encoded as side!

As for DV I have no problem with them using SACD, they sound great via the Oppo, no reason to switch now. Being hybrid and compatible with CD is the added bonus of that! I'm sure that not everyone purchases them for the surround layer nor even for DSD stereo and just play them as CD's. That makes them more compatible than Blu-ray.

 

[madscot]

You would think that it would work the same for both on any given unit. I think that it is time to find and revive that thread about compatible models, or start a new one!

I think that the older releases did have silent channels but I'm not sure. I still find it odd this thing about channels being coded as side instead of back. Not an issue with the Oppo but another source of possible incompatibility. For my use via computer I want them encoded as back, but for others they need them encoded as side!

As for DV I have no problem with them using SACD, they sound great via the Oppo, no reason to switch now. Being hybrid and compatible with CD is the added bonus of that! I'm sure that not everyone purchases them for the surround layer nor even for DSD stereo and just play then as CD's. That makes them more compatible than Blu-ray.

Since getting into surround i’m on my 4th avr, none of them have played the Pink floyd immersion quads, two Sony’s, a Yamaha and now a Denon.
4.0 pcm is very rare I think and is the problem for me

 

[gordy mac]

Back to the OPs problem. If anyone has your specific AVR they would know best. Have you looked if there are any firmware updates for the AVR?

hi
thx for that advise but i have. i was told by denon that there are no updates.