SQ decoder needed

[joelchip]

What is everyone using to decode SQ and QS vinyl records? I've tried Dolby Pro Logic 2 and it does not work properly with SQ. My Marantz receiver has a couple of matrix settings on it, they don't work either. I've got a new copy of "Bridge Over Troubled Water" in SQ I'm dying to hear. Does the Involve decoder give good front/back separation? I've searched for years for a Tate Decoder, no luck. Thanks in advance for any insight you can give me. -Chris

 

[Sonik Wiz]

What is everyone using to decode SQ and QS vinyl records? I've tried Dolby Pro Logic 2 and it does not work properly with SQ. My Marantz receiver has a couple of matrix settings on it, they don't work either. I've got a new copy of "Bridge Over Troubled Water" in SQ I'm dying to hear. Does the Involve decoder give good front/back separation? I've searched for years for a Tate Decoder, no luck. Thanks in advance for any insight you can give me. -Chris

The decoders for SQ used by forum members is diverse & extensive. For myself I've had a QSD-2 that also did SQ, a Kenwood 9940 receiver with Fool Logic & Wave Matching, Fosgate Tate 101A & some Sony decoders partial logic & currently an Involve Surround Master. There is a place & passion for vintage collecting, whether it's quad or cars or whatever, but for performance & fidelity I could only recommend someone spend their $$ on the SM v2. Elsewhere in the main Involve thread you can fins separation specs for SQ as well as QS. In either mode they equal or excel previous tech & no audible side artifacts at all.

 

[par4ken]

I've searched for years for a Tate Decoder, no luck. Thanks in advance for any insight you can give me. -Chris

There is a Tetrasound (Fosgate) decoder on eBay SQ Decoder Tate Tetrasound 101 - quadraphonic - Directional Enhancement System | eBay , as well as a couple of Audionics Space and Image Composers. I would recommend them if not for the prices being asked and the uncertainty that they are functioning properly. From that standpoint I would agree with Sonic Wiz that the Involve Sound Master is a good bet. As for other vintage decoders, look for Lafayette SQ-W. it was considered second only to the Tate units.

 

[JonUrban]

I have a Tetrasound 101, purchased from Larry Clifton (Quad Incorporated) when they first came out. It's a fine decoder but I would not pay that price for it today as it's 40 years old!!

If you are serious and want good SQ and QS, the wisest choice in 2020 is the Surround Master 2, a brand new device that actually works and can be ordered directly from the manufacturer and you know you will have a new, current, stable piece of equipment to last you at least the next 40 years, at which time you can sell it for what that guy is selling his 101 for, only in 2060 dollars.

 

[sjcorne]

I've got a new copy of "Bridge Over Troubled Water" in SQ I'm dying to hear. Does the Involve decoder give good front/back separation?

Bridge Over Troubled Water is a mess in SQ, no matter decoder you use - the actual discrete quad mix (as heard off the Q8/Q4) isn't all that impressive to begin with. The title track and "El Condor Pasa" have very little front/back separation to begin with. Some of the other songs are a bit better - "Cecelia" has the xylophone at the end in the rears and "Baby Driver" has some of the car effects going around the room - but overall it's uncharacteristically tame for a Columbia quad.

 

[rustyandi]

Bridge Over Troubled Water is a mess in SQ, no matter decoder you use - the actual discrete quad mix (as heard off the Q8/Q4) isn't all that impressive to begin with. The title track and "El Condor Pasa" have very little front/back separation to begin with. Some of the other songs are a bit better - "Cecelia" has the xylophone at the end in the rears and "Baby Driver" has some of the car effects going around the room - but overall it's uncharacteristically tame for a Columbia quad.

A friend of mine got a copy from the internet it was amazing
I have played the SQ LP many times with Tate and S/master
and as you say it is not a good SQ mix
But this is said to be a copy of 4 channel tape
I have found the surround great in By BY Love the crowd claps in the rear channels
it is like I have never have heard this LP before

 

[Arconada]

I decode it on my PC with Adobe Audition. It works better than the decoders I used in the past.

 

[fredblue]

Bridge Over Troubled Water is a mess in SQ, no matter decoder you use - the actual discrete quad mix (as heard off the Q8/Q4) isn't all that impressive to begin with. The title track and "El Condor Pasa" have very little front/back separation to begin with. Some of the other songs are a bit better - "Cecelia" has the xylophone at the end in the rears and "Baby Driver" has some of the car effects going around the room - but overall it's uncharacteristically tame for a Columbia quad.

you're right, it isn't a great mix and its not a good example of SQ either... but its funny the things that we Quaddies might consider deal-breakers (i.e. lack of discrete activity/channel separation) can be of less consequence to the rest of the world.

BOTW was one of the most popular SQ's i played for people (not that we can do it now in these pandemic days anyway, this was back when i still had a flat to entertain in but that's another story) BOTW was just surround-y enough to elicit some "ooh that was nice" type comments in response to the surround but above all they all just loved the music so much and felt a connection it didn't really matter.

another that seemed to be a case of content over mix was EW&F's TTWOTW. while i was besotted by the mix differences and various pop-up Rear channel moments, friends and family would enjoy that kind of music to such an extent they'd stop caring about listening out for what was happening in which speaker and just enjoy it for what it was and on one occasion two girls and a guy i had over that i was trying to dazzle with the SQ Quad Surround Master stuff had enough of indulging my Quad addiction and just got up off the couch and all danced to the EW&F music not giving two hoots about the surround part of it at all.. mildly exasperating at the time, on reflection it shouldn't have been an unexpected response, you put on a record of upbeat music in a group setting and people are naturally going to have a boogie!

good times.. feel like light years ago right now even though they were only a few years back.. currently i can just about remember what people other than my immediate family look like.. thank God for Quad, i can always rely on it to get me through the shit times like right now!!

 

[national-kid]

In "Baby Driver", when look at the waveform the scene of around the bike , it seems that it is encoded by QS system (effector?). Therefore, using the QS decoder reproduces more correctly.
By the way, for some reason, "bye bye love", the effect of surround is greater on stereo vinyl (CD) than on SQ vinyl.

 

[DaveLaPorte53]

I use a vintage Pioneer 949, use the headphone outputs to a modern Marantz 7.1 amp. Three different surround modes, and double the power

 

[Sirspinbad]

I’m g

I use a vintage Pioneer 949, use the headphone outputs to a modern Marantz 7.1 amp. Three different surround modes, and double the power

im guessing , this isn’t true Quad sound??? ( I’m new to this....only considering a quad system cause I have so many records.... if this is the way to go , I’m all for it

 

[Beefalo]

I’m g
im guessing , this isn’t true Quad sound??? ( I’m new to this....only considering a quad system cause I have so many records.... if this is the way to go , I’m all for it

Welcome to the QQ forum @Sirspinbad !

 

[Sirspinbad]

Welcome to the QQ forum @Sirspinbad !

Thank You!!! This is great

 

[DaveLaPorte53]

I’m g
im guessing , this isn’t true Quad sound??? ( I’m new to this....only considering a quad system cause I have so many records.... if this is the way to go , I’m all for it

This is as in the day Quad, I use the Fr FL RR Rl inputs to the AV receiver, this uses the decoding in the Pioneer receiver ( front end) and the AV receiver for the power section. It’s like old tech and new tech combined, besides the old receiver looks great, the power is tucked away out of sight. With the touch or a switch it goes back to 7.1 for movies and new surround systems. You could use the four channel tape out if you wanted to use the AV sound controls, I prefer using the analog controls myself .

 

[DaveLaPorte53]

BOTW was the first Quad album I bought. Santana, and Jeff Beck , have great surround mixes, hell even Firesign Theater sounds great in Quad. Steely Dan, Dan Hicks in QS , Jethro Tull, Doobie Brothers in QuadraDisc.

 

[jaybird100]

In "Baby Driver", when look at the waveform the scene of around the bike , it seems that it is encoded by QS system (effector?). Therefore, using the QS decoder reproduces more correctly.
By the way, for some reason, "bye bye love", the effect of surround is greater on stereo vinyl (CD) than on SQ vinyl.

I tried making a QS-encoding of the entire album, made from a disc of the Robin tape. It definitely sounded better than the SQ LP (I can't tell if they used the same mix for the discrete and SQ versions), and also sounded better when played in stereo.

 

[MidiMagic]

Probably the worst thing was to first make a discrete 4-track recording for reel and Q8, and then run this through a "4-corners" encoder to make a matrixed record. Yet too many record companies did exactly that.

You get a much better product if you mix the encoded matrix recording on its own, intended to be played through the decoder.

 

[proufo]

Probably the worst thing was to first make a discrete 4-track recording for reel and Q8, and then run this through a "4-corners" encoder to make a matrixed record. Yet too many record companies did exactly that.

You get a much better product if you mix the encoded matrix recording on its own, intended to be played through the decoder.

Given that they wouldn't make two remixes for Quad, the alternative is to hamper the producer's or remixer's intent with matrix encoding/decoding limitations. That doesn't sound right for a consumer that is paying USD70 for a Q4.

 

[national-kid]

By the way, it is an SQ/QS logic decoder (of crosstalk cancellation method) that I made when there was no Surround Master yet.
Later, when I compared and listened to Tate and Surround Master, the decoding results were almost the same.

 

[MidiMagic]

Given that they wouldn't make two remixes for Quad, the alternative is to hamper the producer's or remixer's intent with matrix encoding/decoding limitations. That doesn't sound right for a consumer that is paying USD70 for a Q4.

The problem is that the mix for discrete made a substandard matrix recording, and the mix for matrix made a substandard discrete recording. Each penalizes the other.

The problem with using a "4-corners" encoder is that often that the placement of parts between the speakers in the discrete caused these parts to appear in the wrong place in the matrix encoding. Also, phase differences in the discrete mix can cause the matrix encoding to malfunction.

I did find a way to do both at the same time, but it is difficult and requires two mixers.

And discrete still does not solve the side imaging problem. That is why I prefer Dolby Surround over the newer systems. I can turn a panpot around the room and the image moves smoothly around the room without jumping or double-imaging.

When I made most of my matrix mixdowns, Q4 and Q8 were long gone.