The True Hard Core Fan Litmus Test Album

[steelydave]

I had intended to list Chicago 14 as a GREAT overlooked album. Hot Streets (12) was a bore other than No Tell Lover and Alive Again. 13 sucked, so nobody bought 14. There were no big hits, either. That's too bad, because I loved 14. They got rid of Donnie Dacus and brought in Chris Pinnick, although Chris was never credited as a group member. After all these duds, Columbia dropped the band. Supposedly they said they'd honor the $ million per album contract and do nothing to promote them, or they'd let Chicago out of it and they could go elsewhere. Chicago opted to sign with Full Moon/WB. 16 sold well and 17 was their best seller ever.

Chicago 14 If you're missing this, go buy it. It's a winner.

I really disagree here. On Hot Streets, I think the title track is great, a classic Robert Lamm tune with maybe a bit of Billy Joel influence courtesy of Phil Ramone. Alive Again and Ain't It Time are also good tracks...but the rest, meh.

I really, really like Chicago 13. Street Player is a great song (co-written by Rufus keyboardist Hawk Wolinski) it blows the Rufus version out of the water, and I love the way Maynard Ferguson's trumpet cuts through on top of the Chicago horn section. Window Dreamin' has an absolute killer horn chart, and I know the vocals might not be to everyone's taste, but it really rocks, Reruns is probably the last classic Chicago style song Rober Lamm ever wrote, and Life Is What It Is, Run Away and Paradise Alley are all great deep cuts. I'm fully aware (and the sales of this album bear this out too) that not many people like this album, but it's easily my favourite post-Terry Kath album.

Chicago XIV on the other hand, aside from Thunder and Lightning, I can totally leave. Tom Dowd is a great producer, but totally wrong for the job here. I think the drug intake by this point had totally paralysed the band by this point, and as much as I hate David Foster and the albums he made with Chicago, at least he got them out of their creative rut. I just wish the producer they'd picked to resuscitate them hadn't sacrificed their integrity so much in the process.

 

[ChristopherLees]

YOU GOTTA HEAR THIS!! Open Road - Donovan A HUGE stiff at the time. It's a great album. Edgier than usual Donovan.
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Riki Tiki Tavi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gDJpsVSsWo
Roots of Oak: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0szYm3CQh0o

"If people don't want to buy it, nobody can stop 'em." - Yogi Berra

I think he wanted it to be known as a band called "Open Road", rather than a Donovan album that's called "Open Road"...

and of course a few years later he did an album where he insisted the producer be listed as "Michael Hayes", because he always preferred that name to "Mickie Most"...

 

[Wagonmaster_91]

I thought for sure by now someone was going to offer: Pink Floyd - "The Final Cut". The album that answered the question: Considering how good "The Wall" is, could a PF album have too much of a Roger Waters influence?

 

[bangsezmax]

Okay, I have one: R.E.M.'s Up. As a bonus, it is also in 5.1.

This is the first post-Bill Berry album and it veered back and forth between drum machines and studio drummers. It's completely sprawling, unfocused, and disjointed. It also has the best writing that Stipe, Buck, and Mills did in the post-Berry era, probably because they were feeling pretty raw and nervous about having to start over without a key member. But it was kind of a mess.

They opened the album with the least hooky, least accessible song on the record ("Airportman") and it turned many people off instantly. I bought the CD when it came out, hated it and stuck it on the shelf. Years later I was on an REM album-by-album thread on the Hoffman forums and someone said this album had some amazing songs and terrible sequencing. So I tried making my own version.

First off, I cut "Airportman" and "Parakeet" -- they're easily the least interesting songs on the record, and without them the album is still 55 minutes long.

My customized order goes like this:

(3) Suspicion
(4) Hope
(11) Daysleeper
(9) Walk Unafraid
(7) Sad Professor
(6) The Apologist
(5) At My Most Beautiful
(12) Diminished
(10) Why Not Smile
(8) You're in the Air
(2) Lotus
(14) Falls to Climb

In this order, the album somehow becomes their 2nd best album (behind Automatic for the People). It is just beautiful and soaring and brimming with emotion. It's not perfect, but it's really strong. Don't ask me how the beauty of it got lost in the sequencing, but it really did. FWIW, I recall an interview with one of the three (Mills?) saying that they were so burned out by the end of the recordings that they kind of gave up on the editing and sequencing. The final product was kind of just thrown together randomly. Pity. It's a stunner done the right way.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Genesis have several - anything from "Abacab" onwards.
Black Sabbath - "Born Again".

 

[LizardKing]

Genesis have several - anything from "Abacab" onwards.
Black Sabbath - "Born Again".

Yeah - The Genesis ultimate is "Calling At Stations"...

 

[dr. simple]

Interesting theory and fun thread!

I'm surprised no one has said, "Back to the Egg" or "McCartney II" (he's got well over 20 albums so two THCFLTA are bound to happen).

Also, interesting discussion about Chicago 13 and 14 - ironically just had this discussion with a friend last night before reading this thread.

 

[dr. simple]

My Rush one would be Caress of Steel. I often hear it dismissed by fans (and by the band themselves) but I think it has some excellent stuff on it. Its definitely far superior to anything after Moving Pictures. Rush is a strange and annoying band for me. Their 70s albums are some of my favourite ever. After Moving Pictures though I find most of it difficult to listen to. I've lost count of the number of times that I have read a new Rush album review saying something like "return to form, their best for years, one of their best ever" and been suckered into buying it, and been so disappointed on listening!!

I could not agree more! Signals was a stretch... Grace Under Pressure was a no-go and out for me. I really love Caress of Steel!

 

[dr. simple]

3.) Van Halen's THCFLTA for me is "Diver Down".

With 4 albums (of mostly great material) under their belt, VH were on a high, with hugely successful tours.. yet clearly they were creatively running dry and their 1982 album with lacklustre covers of "Pretty Woman" & "Dancing In The Street" missed the mark and the original material on the album was mostly forgettable, as an album it lacked any focus or purpose whatsoever. Similar to Queen's 'comeback', VH hit it out of the park with their landmark synth-laden "1984" album, DLR went walkies and the rest is history.. but try fathoming with hindsight how a piece of work like "Diver Down" can be bookended by "Fair Warning" and "1984", just extraordinary.

This thread is bound to be full of "You have to be kidding! I love that album!" So, regarding "Diver Down"...

You have to be kidding! I love that album! Sure - too many remakes for an album (they had done a few before, but this had FIVE) - but there's something about it I just love. "Cathedral" and "Little Guitars" are worth the price of admission, in my opinion.

 

[Quad Linda]

IMHO, Back to the Egg is the best Macca album, save for Band on the Run. With guest stars like Pete Townshend, Dave Gilmour, John Bonham, John Paul Jones, Ronnie Lane, Gary Brooker, and Ray Cooper, the Rockestra tracks cook. "Rockestra Theme" won the first Grammy for Best Rock Instrumental Performance. BTW: Keith Moon was slated to be part of Rockestra, but he passed a few days before it was recorded.



If you dig Macca at all, you NEED this.

IMHO, McCartney II is one his better albums. The techno tracks are great. He proves that he's much more than moon/June songs.


My vote for biggest Macca turkey is Wings Wild Life.

Interesting theory and fun thread!

I'm surprised no one has said, "Back to the Egg" or "McCartney II" (he's got well over 20 albums so two THCFLTA are bound to happen).

Also, interesting discussion about Chicago 13 and 14 - ironically just had this discussion with a friend last night before reading this thread.

 

[ChristopherLees]

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Let's face it, back in 1968 when YS came out there were a lot of hard core Beatles fans. But these fans were already reeling from the half-album - Magical Mystery Tour - on which 6 out of the 11 tracks had already been released on 45s. So with YS as the next Beatle release it was another disappointment on top of disappointment - side 2 of the album was all orchestration and mostly not even written by L&Mc. Plus 1 of the tracks on side 1 was a re-release. Certainly YS was the low point of Beatle albums and likely had even hard core fans shaking their heads.

Edit: Actually it was worse: 2 of the tracks on Side 1 of YS were re-releases.

yes the beatles knew it was a low point.They even considered releasing just the 4 new songs along with the original version of across the universe as a 7 inch 33rpm...but EMI wasn't too keen on what the sound quality would be like...the mono mixes for that unreleased set are to be found on the mono masters from 2009

Note...the MMT album was a Capitol USA creation... as the original release was a world wide double ep... and between MMT and the Y.Sub lp they did release the White album.. Yellow sub was delayed till 69 , because some of the orchestral tracks for side 2 were re-recorded for the lp release...

 

[Wagonmaster_91]

Dr. Simple: This thread is bound to be full of "You have to be kidding! I love that album!" So, regarding "Diver Down"...

That is exactly the essence of a True Hard Core Fan Litmus Test Album. The THCFLTA is the one where when two fans of the artist argue, one will state, "If you don't think that is their best album, then you just don't truly understand the artist like I do." If most everyone agrees the album is great (or terrible), then there is little debate. "McCartney II" is another good example.

Linda, your comment, as opposed to Dr. Simple's, about "Back To The Egg" is what I am talking about.

One that used to get brought up often years ago was The Doors "The Soft Parade". It is one of my favorites of the Jim Morrison era, but while he was still with us fans were pretty divided with many saying it was over-blown, weak, over produced and just bad. "Horns and strings on a Doors album? Doors albums are suppose to be edgy and scary, not Easy Listening!" Of course, as soon as Jim died everything he had ever recorded was hailed "a masterpiece" and "The Soft Parade" doesn't get slagged as much.

Hey Jethro Tull fans - what's their THCFLTA? "Too Old To RnR"? "A"? "Broadsword"?

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

I could not agree more! Signals was a stretch... Grace Under Pressure was a no-go and out for me. I really love Caress of Steel!

With you 100% on that! I'll skip all of the rest of their catalog right up until until "Snakes and Arrows" and "Clockwork Angels" which are both good, but don't quite capture the golden age that ended at "Moving Pictures." So glad I caught them live during those early years.

 

[Doug G.]

Denigrated by many fans and almost all critics, it is their best album.

Doug

 

[Doug G.]

Oh yeah, and "The Soft Parade" is a high point!



Doug

 

[timbre4]

Talking Heads - Naked
Toto - Hydra
Cars - Door to Door
Queen - Hot Space
ELP - Love Beach
David Bowie - Tonight
Deep Purple - Come Taste The Band
Sting - All This Time
CSN - Allies
Billy Joel - Fantasies & Delusions
Gentle Giant - Civilian
Live - Birds Of Prey
Renaissance - Camera, Camera
Til Tuesday - Everything's Different Now
Men At Work - Two Hearts

 

[Quad Linda]

Coincidentally, I thought of listing Broadsword. I like all three Tull albums you listed. In fact, IMHO, Broadsword is the best Tull after their classic '68 - '72 period.

...Hey Jethro Tull fans - what's their THCFLTA? "Too Old To RnR"? "A"? "Broadsword"?

And what about Springsteen? Lucky Town? Tunnel of Love? Tom Joad?




BTW: I LOVED Fantasies & Delusions, especially on SACD. Way better than many other pop artists' attempts at pseudo-classical. I own over 1000 classical titles and was a Chicago Symphony season subscriber for several years.

 

[Neil Palfreyman]

Broadsword is, imho one of Tull's best albums. Easily!

 

[Quad Linda]

IMHO, these three Raiders albums were superb, albeit they didn't sell:
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Photo is Australian CD w/bonus tracks


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An unreleased Quad and a Christmas album are my votes for worst Raiders albums:



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[Wagonmaster_91]

Timbre4, some really great examples. Well done, sir.

Doug G, "Baxter's" is a big divider among Airplane fans. (I'm with you. I think its great.)

Linda, I agree with you on The Raiders "Collage". I think it is was a good attempt to be taken more seriously than just a party/Top40 band, but many fans feel it was a weak attempt at a "Sgt. Peppers". Good choice.

Springsteen? "Nebraska" maybe? Hard for me to say. The Boss lost me quite a few albums ago.

How about this one?: Cheap Trick "The Doctor" I am a big Cheap Trick fan and love just about everything they have done. When I was a college label rep, Epic introduced their first album in the very first branch label meeting I attended and I was immediately hooked. But - "The Doctor" ? I can only tolerate one song on the album ("Kiss me Red"). I hated everything about the LP - the artwork, the mix, the songwriting - yet when the album came out many reviewers proclaimed it their best work yet.