Thinking of upgrading to Atmos. Looking for advice!

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key_wiz

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Rather than starting from scratch, and putting speakers in my ceiling, is there any value at all to simply adding a couple of speakers that fire up and reflect off the ceiling? Does this work well? Or is it a waste of time comparable to a soundbar?

My receiver (a 7.1 Yamaha) speaks of Atmos in the manual but doesn’t really go into detail about how to set up the speakers other than to change a setting to recognize “objects”.

I’m only using the 5.1 now. Would I simply connect the additional speakers to the other two outputs?

Is 7 speakers enough to get the benefits of Atmos?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
 
Don't use upfiring. I sacrificed my wides to put them on tall stands in the front (using a great pair of stands that Amazon no longer carries, apparently, but maybe you can find them). Putting the stands on top of my high subwoofers added extra height so that I didn't need to build into my walls.

My rears were already in the ceiling (and served as my surrounds until I bought proper speakers to be such).

If you have the AVR, and extra speakers, you can convert rather cheaply with a bit of imagination and serious search.
 
Don't use upfiring. I sacrificed my wides to put them on tall stands in the front (using a great pair of stands that Amazon no longer carries, apparently, but maybe you can find them). Putting the stands on top of my high subwoofers added extra height so that I didn't need to build into my walls.

My rears were already in the ceiling (and served as my surrounds until I bought proper speakers to be such).

If you have the AVR, and extra speakers, you can convert rather cheaply with a bit of imagination and serious search.

Yeah...those Klipsch upfiring speakers, especially, look seductive--but what I've read so far says to stay away from upfiring speakers altogether, no matter who makes 'em. (Although you can also wall-mount the Klipsches rather than setting them on top of rear cabinets.)

The other take-away: unless your listening room is really small (under 12' x 12') or oddly shaped, four height speakers are better than two. But two are still better than none!
 
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Rather than starting from scratch, and putting speakers in my ceiling, is there any value at all to simply adding a couple of speakers that fire up and reflect off the ceiling? Does this work well? Or is it a waste of time comparable to a soundbar?
I just finished an upgrade from 7.2 to 7.2.4 this summer and I am a big fan of Klipsch speakers. When I saw that they made Dolby Atmos speakers I was hooked!. I have a cathedral ceiling in my living/listening room. My room is setup with the highest point running across the middle of the room in front of me. I have a beamed ceiling that has a large main beam running along the highest point length wise and then 4 more beams on each side that run from the low sides up to the high middle beam. My original idea was to use the Klipsch RP-500SA speakers for ceiling speakers and mount them against the beams so that they would be firing straight down towards the floor. I could take advantage of the wedge shaped of the speaker to cancel the slant of cathedral ceiling so they'd fire straight down. The layout of the smaller beams would allow placement of the four speakers into a box in front and towards the middle of my listening position. After researching Dolby Atmos installations, I learned that my idea wouldn't be a recommended setup. So my first test of the RP-500SA were to use them as designed, as Atmos enabled speakers. I set them on top of my 4 main Klipsch RF-7ii and tried bouncing the sound off of the slanted ceiling. It barely worked and was unsatisfactory. I tried adjusting the angle the speakers fired at the ceiling but they never sounded convincing to me.

My second test was to set them up as front height and rear height speakers mounted high on the wall next to the ceiling and firing down into the room. The RP-500SA speakers have a switch on the back to configure the speaker as an Atmos upward firing speaker or as a height mounted surround speaker. (This switch will turn on a filter/crossover in the speaker that will add a notch in the frequencies and limit the frequencies output from the speaker, per Dolby specs, so that they would sound more like the reflected sound was coming from above your head.) With the switch in the surround position, they become full range (eh) satellite speakers. This front / rear height arrangement sounded exactly like that - the sounds were in FRONT (and slightly higher) of me. They did not sound like they were above me firing down. The rear heights did a good job of sounding above and behind me.

For my third test I thought I should try the speakers as Side Height mounted speakers. Again, they sounded exactly like were..... side high speakers firing down into the room.

Finally, I placed the front height speakers on the center room beam in front of me, firing down towards the listen positions. I put the rear heights back up on the rear wall behind the listening positions. This configuration closely matches the Dolby recommended 7.2.4 speaker placements and provides a definite above in front left/right and above behind left/right space.

The Dolby Atmos enabled speakers may work fairly well in an ideal environment. The ceiling has to be flat and smooth, at a certain height above the listeners head. The Atmos enabled speakers have to be sitting at a certain height off of the floor and they need to be placed around the listening position so that the reflected sound comes from behind and in front of you..... lots of ifs... Using the speakers as front/side height speakers would probably be the easiest setup.

David H
 
I just finished an upgrade from 7.2 to 7.2.4 this summer and I am a big fan of Klipsch speakers. When I saw that they made Dolby Atmos speakers I was hooked!. I have a cathedral ceiling in my living/listening room. My room is setup with the highest point running across the middle of the room in front of me. I have a beamed ceiling that has a large main beam running along the highest point length wise and then 4 more beams on each side that run from the low sides up to the high middle beam. My original idea was to use the Klipsch RP-500SA speakers for ceiling speakers and mount them against the beams so that they would be firing straight down towards the floor. I could take advantage of the wedge shaped of the speaker to cancel the slant of cathedral ceiling so they'd fire straight down. The layout of the smaller beams would allow placement of the four speakers into a box in front and towards the middle of my listening position. After researching Dolby Atmos installations, I learned that my idea wouldn't be a recommended setup. So my first test of the RP-500SA were to use them as designed, as Atmos enabled speakers. I set them on top of my 4 main Klipsch RF-7ii and tried bouncing the sound off of the slanted ceiling. It barely worked and was unsatisfactory. I tried adjusting the angle the speakers fired at the ceiling but they never sounded convincing to me.

My second test was to set them up as front height and rear height speakers mounted high on the wall next to the ceiling and firing down into the room. The RP-500SA speakers have a switch on the back to configure the speaker as an Atmos upward firing speaker or as a height mounted surround speaker. (This switch will turn on a filter/crossover in the speaker that will add a notch in the frequencies and limit the frequencies output from the speaker, per Dolby specs, so that they would sound more like the reflected sound was coming from above your head.) With the switch in the surround position, they become full range (eh) satellite speakers. This front / rear height arrangement sounded exactly like that - the sounds were in FRONT (and slightly higher) of me. They did not sound like they were above me firing down. The rear heights did a good job of sounding above and behind me.

For my third test I thought I should try the speakers as Side Height mounted speakers. Again, they sounded exactly like were..... side high speakers firing down into the room.

Finally, I placed the front height speakers on the center room beam in front of me, firing down towards the listen positions. I put the rear heights back up on the rear wall behind the listening positions. This configuration closely matches the Dolby recommended 7.2.4 speaker placements and provides a definite above in front left/right and above behind left/right space.

The Dolby Atmos enabled speakers may work fairly well in an ideal environment. The ceiling has to be flat and smooth, at a certain height above the listeners head. The Atmos enabled speakers have to be sitting at a certain height off of the floor and they need to be placed around the listening position so that the reflected sound comes from behind and in front of you..... lots of ifs... Using the speakers as front/side height speakers would probably be the easiest setup.

David H
Hi David, and thanks for your lengthy setup trials and write up. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all these Atmos specs./configs.; and am wondering are there distance adjustments available via your AVR for the heights to the listening position, similar to what's typically available for the floor speakers in a 5.1 setup? Or, as it is Object oriented, is it placing the sounds into a specific (software determined) position in space (in other words- as to originating from a 3 dimensional point to be perceived from multiple listening positions?)
 
When I was investigating going Atmos, I read on AVSForum recommendations to have a minimum of 4 height speakers (a pair in front and behind listening pos). Now that I have 4 heights I’d have to agree as they allow the system to position objects anywhere within the cube formed by floor and ceiling speakers.

My recommendation is 4 height speakers. If you can’t do 4 then probably best to just go from 5.1 to 7.1.
 
@J. PUPSTER: Same auto calibration/manual calibration for heights as bed 5.1/7.1 on my Denon AVR.

Once the all speakers are configured and balanced the mix controls object positioning, volumes etc based on your actual speaker configuration and locations (5.1.2, 5.1.4, 7.1.4 etc). In addition to the number of speakers you also set the locations (e.g. Front or Ceiling heights etc)
 
@J. PUPSTER: Same auto calibration/manual calibration for heights as bed 5.1/7.1 on my Denon AVR.

Once the all speakers are configured and balanced the mix controls object positioning, volumes etc based on your actual speaker configuration and locations (5.1.2, 5.1.4, 7.1.4 etc). In addition to the number of speakers you also set the locations (e.g. Front or Ceiling heights etc)
Thanks Garry, what about Object oriented listening from multiple positions and spatial perception?
 
Hi David, and thanks for your lengthy setup trials and write up. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all these Atmos specs./configs.; and am wondering are there distance adjustments available via your AVR for the heights to the listening position, similar to what's typically available for the floor speakers in a 5.1 setup? Or, as it is Object oriented, is it placing the sounds into a specific (software determined) position in space (in other words- as to originating from a 3 dimensional point to be perceived from multiple listening positions?)
With my Marantz, you have to tell the amp what amp/speaker config you want to use first. It gives you all sort of possible configurations (with pictures too) so you can match your speaker setup. If you're using Dolby Atmos enabled speakers (which means they are the slanted up firing type that bounces sound off of the ceiling vs being mounted on the ceiling) the amp has an extra measurement you input for the height of the Dolby speaker to the ceiling... After the configuration is input into the amp, you can run Audyssey which will determine the distance for all of your speakers to the main listening position using a microphone (or you could manually input the distance you measure yourself). Once the amp knows your speaker configuration and distances to the main listening position, it can then use the object positioning instructions in the Atmos source media to mix the sounds to the instructed positions. But I believe it is truly mixed perfectly for only the main listening position. Everything is based off of the first Audyssey test which determines the speaker distance (audio signal time) to that one key position. All remaining Audyssey test are for frequency corrections and are limited to being within 2 feet of the first measured position. I'm sure we all know what our rooms sound like from multiple positions in the room, but when using Audyssey, that mail listening position is where all the magic happens!

David H
 
Thanks Garry, what about Object oriented listening from multiple positions and spatial perception?

The Denon Audessey calibration takes 8 different microphone location readings so basic multi positions are somewhat covered I guess. I‘m no Doctor of Spatial Perception so that’s all I’m going to say about that 😁
 
I‘ve not seen that before. Where did you read that? I’ve always put the mic at my couch main seats, 1m apart.

My Denon Audyssey calibration also says to have every mic point two feet from the center position. My current setup uses that calibration, but I found myself tweaking it afterwards in the distance options. I've also used a wider range, before I came across that 2 foot limit -- and may try that again, as it sounded fine (at least with my old 7.2 setup). Then test ABBEY ROAD and see how I feel. I imagine I'll be testing / tweaking until my next configuration!
 
I‘ve not seen that before. Where did you read that? I’ve always put the mic at my couch main seats, 1m apart.

Hi there Homer! I've enjoyed your post for years now!
I got the 2' limit from my Marantz SR 8012 manual. It also comes up and states this during the audyssey speaker setup wizard...
1569967650793.png


It reminds you every time you move the mic to another position.

Now with my last amp, the SR7008, I don't recall the distance limit instructions. I know the first few times I ran Audyssey, I made the mic measurements much wider trying to include more seating positions. After a while of being truly the only person who cared, I started taking all 8 measurements around my seat/head! The improvement in sound made my jaw drop! I've never heard sound so perfect.... Now with my new amp they state it in the setup and manual and it stills sounds fantastic!

David H
 
I just checked in my SR 7008 Manual and it doesn’t state the 2’ measurement restriction.
EBF60776-7419-40EA-80DC-52464B9E4B50.jpeg


I bought that amp in 2013 but it did use “ MultiEQ XT32” which is the same type stated in the newer SR8012. I don’t know if the technology changed or if the practical use was refined. But as I stated earlier, when I took the mic measurements around my head (at most 1 foot from center 1st measurement) the sound quality improved dramatically. I believe the sound from all of the speakers are Coming Together (ha ha) precisely balanced and in sync around my ears. There is a marvelous soft pressure from the bass frequencies I haven’t experienced before and the surrounds are especially note worthy when a sound is panned back and forth between them (example Garfunkel’s - I Only Have Eyes For You and in Tomita’s Clair De Lune). The other listening positions still pickup the general balance but if you haven’t tried Audyssey mic’d with all 8 positions just around your head in the MLP, I strongly recommend you give it a try!!!
 
If we are still talking speakers, I used SVS Prime Elevation speakers for my four hieghts and mounted them ON the wall. I don't have to worry about a WAF, so I just got white speaker wire to meld a bit into my white walls.
 
If we are still talking speakers, I used SVS Prime Elevation speakers for my four hieghts and mounted them ON the wall. I don't have to worry about a WAF, so I just got white speaker wire to meld a bit into my white walls.
I hear those are great Atmos Speakers and would have considered them if I didn't want matching Klipsch (sort of matching at least) style speakers. Do they have a switch for full range/Atmos uses? Anyone else considering Atmos style speakers should check them out for sure.
 
For relatively clean and inexpensive Atmos speakers I highly recommend Boston Acoustics Soundware 4.5, available at discounters like accessories4less (no affiliations) for $69.99 each. I installed 4 on-ceiling and they sound great in a 5.2.4 system with Ascends in the other positions. The already near-perfect Abbey Road 5.1 mix opens up to envelop the listener in a 3 dimensional crystal clear sound field. It feels GOOD. Like you might feel in a high-end acoustically treated theater setting.
 
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