Opeth - Pale Communion 5.1 (Blu-ray)

[steelydave]

Both the LFE and left front speaker need to have their phase inverted relative to the other 4 speakers.

 

[Thonolan]

Precisely yesterday I inverted the phase of my subwoofer (easy to do on my Yamaha receiver) and that, with the front speakers set to "large", gives a richer and fuller bass here. However, sometimes I clearly notice kind of a "hole" in the soundstage, especially regarding the lower frequencies, coming from the left. Does this make any sense? I think so, after reading your explanations. I already noticed it before so it cannot be pure suggestion.

I must say it still sounds like a terrific mix to me, but there's definitely something iffy going on.

 

[Nimbatus]

I just now finished listening to the album after inverting the front left speaker's and LFE's phase and this solved the issue, as expected. Of course, inverting the phase like that will throw off all other albums with correct phase correlation and therefore I'd rather have Roadrunner fix the issue instead of having to flip the phase manually everytime I want to listen to this.

For anybody who doesn't know which effect an inverted phase has to the audio signal, please just listen to a standard stereo CD and flip the phase of one of the front speakers. The mess you'll hear after you did is exactly what is happening with the front channels of this release.

Roadrunner really screwed it up. I hope they're willing to fix it.

 

[Simon M]

Well, I'm going to send mine back. I guess the more returns they get will increase the chance of actually getting it fixed. It amazes me the amount of problems we seem to encounter with 5.1 discs, you would think it would be prudent for someone at the record company to actually listen to the final result before they press 1000's, shame...

 

[keenly]

The disc is messed up; the record label need to reissue it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[keenly]

STOP PRESS:

I just looked at all of the tracks in Nuendo, and relative to the other tracks, the Front Left and LFE tracks are out of phase. When you correct this there is tons of bass.

Just for those who don't know about phase, in simple terms audio waveforms can either be positive or negative, and you want all the channels in your mix to be the same, because if positive overlaps with negative, they cancel each other out just like a mathematical equation. This is especially apparent with bass, because it's usually a mono signal mixed in equal amounts to more than one channel - so lets say you have bass in FL and FR, and one of them is out of phase: positive bass and negative bass cancel each other out and you have zero bass. If you had either positive and positive you'd have bass, or negative and negative you'd have bass. In the case of this mix (I listened to it on headphones) you have bass in 5 channels: FL, FR, RL, RR and LFE. When you have your speakers set to small, the bass from all those channels is sent to your sub, and because the FL and LFE are out of phase, they cancel out the bass from the FR, RL and RR. What you're left with is some kick drum and some fuzzy indistinct bass guitar.

I know the internet is full of hyperbolic opinions, but I think this is a pretty major mastering/authoring error - I would encourage Roadrunner to recall the disc and fix this error, because it's not a simple thing for a layman to fix. Nor should the end user really have to jump through a load of hoops just to make the thing they paid good money for sound as it should, really.


I checked out the drums as well and they seem fine - I listened to the 5.1 mix with the FL, FR, C and LFE in one ear, and the RL and RR in the other ear, which gives me a good idea of the front/back panning. The drums are pretty standard SW style, with the bulk of the kit in the FL & FR, with the toms pulled out to the mid-sides and some of the cymbals further back toward the rear, with reverb from the kit in the rear speakers. When you fix the phase problems the drums sound a lot more normal and coherent, so that may be the problem. I also found the center channel to be used more sparingly than a lot of SW's recent mixes - it's used almost exclusively for lead vocals and lead guitar and is silent most of the rest of the time.

ETA: I wasn't able to rip the two live bonus tracks using either AudioMuxer or DVD Audio Extractor so I'm not sure if they suffer the same issue or not.

Exactly! We the consumer need to push for this. Everybody please email/ contact them.

 

[keenly]

I just now finished listening to the album after inverting the front left speaker's and LFE's phase and this solved the issue, as expected. Of course, inverting the phase like that will throw off all other albums with correct phase correlation and therefore I'd rather have Roadrunner fix the issue instead of having to flip the phase manually everytime I want to listen to this.

For anybody who doesn't know which effect an inverted phase has to the audio signal, please just listen to a standard stereo CD and flip the phase of one of the front speakers. The mess you'll hear after you did is exactly what is happening with the front channels of this release.

Roadrunner really screwed it up. I hope they're willing to fix it.

Demand they fix it!

 

[Simon_LDT]

Do we have an email address we can all write to?

How can one change the phase on speakers? Don't think I've ever tried it.

 

[Nimbatus]

How can one change the phase on speakers? Don't think I've ever tried it.

Just flip plus and minus on the left front speaker connectors and you're done

 

[zfox]

Do we have an email address we can all write to?

If they don't see bad reviews on Amazon, they won't care.

 

[keenly]

If they don't see bad reviews on Amazon, they won't care.

They will care. They have issued defected discs; BY LAW we have rights.

 

[Nimbatus]

If they don't see bad reviews on Amazon, they won't care.

I just put a purchase warning on Amazon Germany. It's not released yet because it needs approval.

 

[Thonolan]

Just flip plus and minus on the left front speaker connectors and you're done

I just did this and yeah, you're so right. Now that "hole" at the left side of the soundscape has completely dissapeared and everything sounds well balanced.

I switched to the stereo mix now and it sounds awfully strange! That hole I was talking about it's a lot more noticeable than the surround's. So I assume the stereo mix is correct. Having the left front speaker out of phase affects the stereo mix a lot more than what it did for the 5.1. It's absolutely unlistenable. However, the surround still sounded good with the out of phase channels, even though not completely right (read my previous post #179).

Have any of you done this? I'm curious to see if the out of phase stereo mix sounds this bad on your systems. If the 5.1 mix would've sounded like this I would've been sure right away that something was wrong. But the difference is not that big for the 5.1 mix on my system.

 

[Nimbatus]

I think it's not that obvious because it's a little bit compensated by the surrounds and the center. Switch off all channels except the fronts in your amp and check it out again, sounds just as horrible.

And yeah, the bonus tracks are just as fine sounding as the stereo mixes of the main tracks. They are not affected by it.

 

[Wildman]

Just did the LF polarity swap. It solved the problem for me also.

I wonder if Roadrunner will even bother correcting it. Maybe if SW gets wind of it, he could put some pressure on them.

 

[Simon_LDT]

Just did the LF polarity swap. It solved the problem for me also.

I wonder if Roadrunner will even bother correcting it. Maybe if SW gets wind of it, he could put some pressure on them.

I think that would be our only real chance is if SW and/or Mikael get involved as they may have a bit more power than us in regards to getting a fix.

Will be trying this phase correction later. I'm hoping I can set it via my amp rather than unplugging and swapping the wires manually.

 

[IMachine]

I wrote them already.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

I swtiched the phase of the FL. Not a night and day difference, though the soundstage is a bit fuller. Wrote to the Stereoboutigue where I purchased the deluxe edition.

 

[keenly]

I swtiched the phase of the FL. Not a night and day difference, though the soundstage is a bit fuller. Wrote to the Stereoboutigue where I purchased the deluxe edition.

It is nothing to do with stereoboutique.

 

[Robert van Diggele]

It is nothing to do with stereoboutique.

I know, but that is where I got the disc from. And it is a Warners shop.