Newest ATV is lacking in build quality

[Xymox]

Not sure if you guys picked up on the downgrade in AppleTV hardware for the most recent device. I work a lot with tweaking and mods and so I do a LOT of performance measuring and testing and this newest box is just dodo.. At least as a starting place to do mods..

For audio performance you want the A2169.. IMHO..

I did a video showing the issues some while back..

 

[paligap]

I would just point out that this video was posted by AppleTV X, and the comments are turned off for some reason.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

I've had each of the Appletv4ks. I found the last model 2022 had an issue with my HDHomerun app, where too often 2 of my local channels the video would be fine but the audio would stutter, but no such issue with the 2021 model.

 

[Xymox]

I would just point out that this video was posted by AppleTV X, and the comments are turned off for some reason.

View attachment 100239

Because a lot of haters gotta hate ? hahahaha... I think the discussion stands on its own merits no matter who posted it ? Its just obvious the newer ATV is cheaper build quality. The newest one was a cost reduction measure for Apple as the market for stand alone devices is so tiny and they needed to compete with Firestick, Roku and nvidia shield. Most people use a TV with AppleTV in it and use mobile devices and laptops. The market for a set top ATV is tiny and growing smaller and Apple might soon exit completly. So a cheaper version was needed to compete.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

I think Chris posted this is a manner simply to keep the discussion to the quality of the Appletv4k, pointing out that for those of us who use the Appletv4k, we may find (as did I) that the 2021 or even earlier 2018 models are better built and may sound better for any music (E.G. Dolby Atmos, etc) we use it to listen to.
A relevant topic for this forum.

 

[Xymox]

I think Chris posted this is a manner simply to keep the discussion to the quality of the Appletv4k, pointing out that for those of us who use the Appletv4k, we may find (as did I) that the 2021 or even earlier 2018 models are better built and may sound better for any music (E.G. Dolby Atmos, etc) we use it to listen to.
A relevant topic for this forum.

Indeed so. I think everyone should get a A2169. Dont be swayed into "newer is better" for a ATV.

 

[paligap]

Because a lot of haters gotta hate ? hahahaha... I think the discussion stands on its own merits no matter who posted it ? Its just obvious the newer ATV is cheaper build quality. The newest one was a cost reduction measure for Apple as the market for stand alone devices is so tiny and they needed to compete with Firestick, Roku and nvidia shield. Most people use a TV with AppleTV in it and use mobile devices and laptops. The market for a set top ATV is tiny and growing smaller and Apple might soon exit completly. So a cheaper version was needed to compete.

Maybe it was just a bunch of haters in the comments, but I would have liked to have been able to make that judgment for myself. I'm not disputing anything in the video because I don't know enough to be able to credibly do that. However, I do think transparency is important.

I have two AppleTV 4Ks, but neither of them are the two models mentioned in the video. One is newer than the other, and both are connected to mid-range systems, not high end ones. Other than apps layout, I can't detect any differences in performance. YMMV

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Chris deleted comments because they likely pertained to his mod - Appletvx - and he was attempting to keep this thread simply to use of the unmodded Appletv4k. For those with better displays properly calibrated and/or better audio systems the choice of which streamer may well make a difference to them. Since you tried both and the newer model works fine then you should keep that one. And if you want to read whatever comments if any were at the original youtube video all you have to tube is go to Youtube, search "Appletvx", and you can find it and read any comments. Don't know why you are making this a big deal except to get this thread closed. Lets have no further discussion of the "X' version of the Appletv4k in this thread, ok?

 

[Xymox]

Maybe it was just a bunch of haters in the comments, but I would have liked to have been able to make that judgment for myself. I'm not disputing anything in the video because I don't know enough to be able to credibly do that. However, I do think transparency is important.

I have two AppleTV 4Ks, but neither of them are the two models mentioned in the video. One is newer than the other, and both are connected to mid-range systems, not high end ones. Other than apps layout, I can't detect any differences in performance. YMMV

So yours are a bit older then ? Thats awesome. Those were also really good quality. Its really just this latest one that tossed quality out the window. I think they were loosing money on the previous units just to get into homes and get AppleTV programming to people.

As long as you can run the apps you need, the older ones are great. Not sure if the older one with optical out still works, but, that might be fun to listen to hooked to a good DAC.

As I am really deep technically, when I read thru comments on audio/video gear its abhorrent. Its stunning how many "experts" there are who are completly clueless. And then band together and I have seen comments on technical discussions just be insanely wrong and most people commenting supporting the completly wrong ideas. Comments are a horrible plague - IMHO.. I just never read them. On anything. Forums can also have this happen, "experts" who have no expert standing in the field and no experence. Plus these days a lot of cognitive bias is involved with people unaware how wrong they can be. Its a serious issue these days in comments, forums and social media. Cognitive bias - Wikipedia

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Where are the test results?

 

[Xymox]

Where are the test result

Hmmm.. As I mentioned, how these relate to actual perception, well,, that is a SMPTE study, hahaha..

This requres some explanation.. I have a lot more types of tests, but, this shows a pretty visible difference.. These differences are caused by jitter / noise..

This is a stock A2169 HDMI output. This is one HDMI channel. What you want are thin lines and statistics on the right with nice symmetrical curves. This is a stock ATV so its a bit sloppy. You want the biggest area in the center in the "eye"

This is the newest one.. Its clearly not as clean. It has more jitter.

Will they work ? 100% for sure.. They pass HDMI stds for sure.

Can you see/hear a difference,,, ooooo,,, good question... This jitter also ends up in the audio stream.. Well, lots of things on HDMI result in audio stream jitter..

I do a lot more testing. One thing that REALLY stood out was how much of the switching power supply RF ended up on the HDMI and Ethernet signals. Which is no surprize as the power supply switching circuits no longer have a metal block shielding them in the newest unit. I have spectrum analyzer measurements around here someplace. But just looking at the supply proximity to the main board its obvious this would occur. Does this matter to the perception of the video and audio for a normal user ? Most likely not. But that RF also sprays into the air and gets on other devices around it. It radiates a noise spectrum.

There are more things. Like Wifi signal also ends up in the HDMI signal. Its a lack of shielding.. Again, does it matter ? For a stock unit, to most people, no.

It all matters to me tho. I mod mine and so I need low numbers to begin with.

 

[paligap]

Chris deleted comments because they likely pertained to his mod - Appletvx - and he was attempting to keep this thread simply to use of the unmodded Appletv4k. For those with better displays properly calibrated and/or better audio systems the choice of which streamer may well make a difference to them. Since you tried both and the newer model works fine then you should keep that one. And if you want to read whatever comments if any were at the original youtube video all you have to tube is go to Youtube, search "Appletvx", and you can find it and read any comments. Don't know why you are making this a big deal except to get this thread closed. Lets have no further discussion of the "X' version of the Appletv4k in this thread, ok?

I've read your post several times, and I still can't figure out what you have a problem with. I clearly stated that I wasn't disputing anything in the video, but I couldn't see any comments on the video on Youtube. I don't know why you're making a bigger deal of my post than the OP is.

 

[Xymox]

I want to make really clear.. Just because you can measure these things technically, does not mean they matter perceptually. I have a personal opinion that they do matter as I can blind AB tell the difference in pic and sound. But I use insanely high end gear and I know what to listen and look for as i have 25 years doing high end audio and video. So for a average person with a high end system doing a AB with stock ATVs it most likely will be really close..

BUT.. If I had to choose. I would get the A2169 anyway. Just IMHO.

 

[paligap]

So yours are a bit older then ? Thats awesome. Those were also really good quality. Its really just this latest one that tossed quality out the window. I think they were loosing money on the previous units just to get into homes and get AppleTV programming to people.

As long as you can run the apps you need, the older ones are great. Not sure if the older one with optical out still works, but, that might be fun to listen to hooked to a good DAC.

As I am really deep technically, when I read thru comments on audio/video gear its abhorrent. Its stunning how many "experts" there are who are completly clueless. And then band together and I have seen comments on technical discussions just be insanely wrong and most people commenting supporting the completly wrong ideas. Comments are a horrible plague - IMHO.. I just never read them. On anything. Forums can also have this happen, "experts" who have no expert standing in the field and no experence. Plus these days a lot of cognitive bias is involved with people unaware how wrong they can be. Its a serious issue these days in comments, forums and social media. Cognitive bias - Wikipedia

I have an A1842 and an A2737, and I'm satisfied with both.

I agree that comments on any forum can be ridiculous, but they can sometimes be illuminating as well. I had never encountered a Youtube video with the comments turned off, as they are on your video.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

No comment - I’ve turned my comments off!

 

[Xymox]

I've read your post several times, and I still can't figure out what you have a problem with. I clearly stated that I wasn't disputing anything in the video, but I couldn't see any comments on the video on Youtube. I don't know why you're making a bigger deal of my post than the OP is.

Your comments on the comments were reasonable and made sense to me

 

[LuvMyQuad]

So for a average person with a high end system doing a AB with stock ATVs it most likely will be really close..

BUT.. If I had to choose. I would get the A2169 anyway. Just IMHO.

Well, for a lot of audiophiles, build quality matters, whether they can hear it or not. My ATV is about 2 yrs old. I'm not sure what model it is, but I do remember thinking how heavy it seemed and it does have a fan.

So if someone is now in the market for ATV, all they will find offered is the newer versions, correct?

 

[Xymox]

I have an A1842 and an A2737, and I'm satisfied with both.

I agree that comments on any forum can be ridiculous, but they can sometimes be illuminating as well. I had never encountered a Youtube video with the comments turned off, as they are on your video.

The video does not invite drama. WHo needs drama in comments. I just simply dont like comments as its always dominated by cognitive bias. Comments bring people back to the videos as they defend what they post. It makes for more impressions as people come back to the vid just to post in the comments. This could be monetized so comments make posters money. Thats just all a bad concept in my mind.

Just our comments about comments are increasing the page views of this thread and keeping it up high in the ranking, hahaha..

 

[Xymox]

Well, for a lot of audiophiles, build quality matters, whether they can hear it or not. My ATV is about 2 yrs old. I'm not sure what model it is, but I do remember thinking how heavy it seemed and it does have a fan.

So if someone is now in the market for ATV, all they will find offered is the newer versions, correct?

Yea you have a A2169. You can check in the menus.

COrrect you cant find new ones in the normal channels. But if you go to ebay and look for new A2169 you can still find them. They are still pricey tho. As they pretty much never fail, a used one is great too.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Once in awhile I get an email from Amazon including offer for a A2169. They seem to come available from time to time - at least until a month or ago the last time I got such an email.