Newest ATV is lacking in build quality

[Owen Smith]

Well, for a lot of audiophiles, build quality matters, whether they can hear it or not. My ATV is about 2 yrs old. I'm not sure what model it is, but I do remember thinking how heavy it seemed and it does have a fan.

The noise from the fan will cause far more audio degradation than the HDMI and interference issues alleged with the Apple TV 4K 2022 (the current model at the time of writing). I bought the current model precisely because it doesn't have a fan aka an audible noise generator.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

The noise from the fan will cause far more audio degradation than the HDMI and interference issues alleged with the Apple TV 4K 2022 (the current model at the time of writing). I bought the current model precisely because it doesn't have a fan aka an audible noise generator.

I've never heard the fan. It is somehow completely silent. Until I saw the video, I didn't realize it was actually a fan. I thought it was just a vent.

 

[Owen Smith]

I've never heard the fan. It is somehow completely silent. Until I saw the video, I didn't realize it was actually a fan. I thought it was just a vent.

I am super sensitive to fan noise, it's an annoying super power I can't get rid of. I added resistors to the fan power on my Oppo 95 to slow it down. I've had to add slow supplemental cooling fans to my Arcam AVR31 to ensure the noisier internal fans never run. My battle with fans never ends, so if I can buy gear that does the job with no fan that's the model for me. I found several fans in my dealer's high end stereo demo room that he had no idea were there.

 

[Xymox]

I've never heard the fan. It is somehow completely silent. Until I saw the video, I didn't realize it was actually a fan. I thought it was just a vent.

I spent time trying to get the fan to come on. 100% for sure, during streaming use in normal ambiant it never comes on.. The ATV uses 130mA @ 14.14V avg during streaming on my ATVX. Thats 1.83W during use for streaming.. This power does not trigger the fan to come on because the metal can passivly dissapate the heat. I did get the fan to come on finally by downloading games. I got it to draw 1.4A peak at 14.15V and, obviously, this power would require active thermal management and require a fan..

From 3 feet I could not hear it in a dead quite room. I could hear it with my ear on the fan.

The reduced thermal loads on the new unit are suspect. Power savings had to be used in order to ditch the large metal heatsink and fan. While I cannot say for sure what they did to radically reduce the CPU load, something happened besides a newer CPU. Weight is a major cost and reducing weight saved Apple a LOT of money. Shipping the ATV by the pallet full is expensive. Shipping to a client from the Apple Store costs money. Reducing weight by removing all that metal and fan weight saved Apple millions. It is commonly something engineering is tasked with to save money on a product. SHipping weight is a consideration in any cost costing.

So I look right thru what they did. It was cost savings and how they reduced CPU load is suspect.

The lower power TDAP also means you can use a lower power power supply, saving cost. Your regulators on the board can be cheaper.

So reducing power consumption, by maybe, leaving the CPU in a constant power saving mode, could be quite benificial in cost reduction.

This most recent ATV was a fairly extreme exercise in cheapening the product. They saved so much money overall they were able to lower the retail price.

There is NO WAY they will make a higher quality unit now. Its all downhill. Its now just a matter of time before its gone. I am surprized there are rumors they will release a new one this year. Of course they HAVE TO because they wont make the CPU chip anymore and have moved to a new one for laptops. But I was expecting them to just quietly drop it.

Grab a A2169. Its most likely the best streaming device of this whole dedicated streaming box era. There are a bunch of people doing mods to it already. Linears, clocks and all manner of things, like me.

While I can still get new ones, this wont last forever. The new ones will dry up. I intend on switching to refurb and mods like they do with Oppos. I am in it for the long haul. The streaming industry is not going 8k. There are no new audio formats. Nothing beyond HDR. There is no need for a updated ATV.

 

[Xymox]

I am super sensitive to fan noise, it's an annoying super power I can't get rid of. I added resistors to the fan power on my Oppo 95 to slow it down. I've had to add slow supplemental cooling fans to my Arcam AVR31 to ensure the noisier internal fans never run. My battle with fans never ends, so if I can buy gear that does the job with no fan that's the model for me. I found several fans in my dealer's high end stereo demo room that he had no idea were there.

As long as you keep the unit in ambiant temps and just stream, I could make you a unit with the fan disabled and warranty it for 3 years. I might also be able to do a external passive radiator. It would be fugly, but for sure no fan and you could game with it.

 

[Mcallister]

my fist gen apple tG4’s crashes recently playing Apple Music. Anyone else experienced this?

 

[Owen Smith]

I spent time trying to get the fan to come on. 100% for sure, during streaming use in normal ambiant it never comes on..

The fan never comes on for you, in your rack with your usage. There is no guarantee it wouldn't have come on for me.

There is NO WAY they will make a higher quality unit now. Its all downhill. Its now just a matter of time before its gone.

It takes digital input (ethernet or wifi) and produces digital output (HDMI). It is possible in that scenario to test for 100% correct output given a particular input, and if the device does that it is behaving correctly. This isn't an analogue audio product.

The streaming industry is not going 8k. There are no new audio formats. Nothing beyond HDR. There is no need for a updated ATV.

People said all that and then Atmos came out. There will be something new at some point, though I agree at present there is no need for an updated ATV. It's 2024, the current model is from 2022, I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[Xymox]

my fist gen apple tG4’s crashes recently playing Apple Music. Anyone else experienced this?

Firmware version ?

The fan never comes on for you, in your rack with your usage. There is no guarantee it wouldn't have come on for me.

It takes digital input (ethernet or wifi) and produces digital output (HDMI). It is possible in that scenario to test for 100% correct output given a particular input, and if the device does that it is behaving correctly. This isn't an analogue audio product.

People said all that and then Atmos came out. There will be something new at some point, though I agree at present there is no need for an updated ATV. It's 2024, the current model is from 2022, I see nothing wrong with that.

I have spent more time under the hood of this device then i think anyone outside of Apple. Some Apple people told me I spent more time then they did, hahah..

Its not possible to draw more then 200mA @14.15V streaming any content. If you want I can put it on the bench and you can give me what content your stream and i can do a video showing power draw and let it run for like a day doing that and do time lapse showing the fan does not come on. I have hunders of hours of engineering on this product, there is no way its going to draw more power then that streaming no matter what rez, format, CODECs or audio format you do. I have invesitgated them all. Wifi and/or ethernet does not matter in avg current draw. HDMI formats do not change power draw. Blutooth does not change power draw. Screen mirroring might, I have not checked that.

NOW if you put it in rack and the ambient temp of the unit goes up, then for sure, you can get fan.

I do understand your fan aversion tho My Switch X is passive cooling as powerful 10Gbps switch/routers typically have fans. So I get it for sure.

 

[Xymox]

People said all that and then Atmos came out. There will be something new at some point, though I agree at present there is no need for an updated ATV. It's 2024, the current model is from 2022, I see nothing wrong with that.

I am a AES/SMPTE/CEA member, there are no new formats in development for consumers. First time in my professional life. Normally things like video and sound formats were always in development. Not any more. Well, 8K+ is moving along but has no one wanting to adopt. The reason is the streaming costs. Higher rez formats cost more money in bandwidth and EVERYONE wants lower costs, not higher. So any new thing like video or audio will need to be the same brandwidth, which really limits it being any better as it would be the same Mbps.

AV has plataued. Like computers, no one needs more memory or Ghz any more. Its topped out.

 

[Owen Smith]

AV has plataued. Like computers, no one needs more memory or Ghz any more. Its topped out.

Now that I agree with completely. We have all the audio and video quality we could ever have dreamed of, if the streaming services use sufficient bit rate.

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

I own a model A1842. It went out after a couple of years and Apple replaced it out of warranty at no charge. I probably wouldn’t use it but I’m still using a 2016 model TV that won’t pass Dolby Atmos. Once I get a newer TV model, I’ll most likey stop using my ATV.

Thank you for Posting that video comparison.

 

[Xymox]

Now that I agree with completely. We have all the audio and video quality we could ever have dreamed of, if the streaming services use sufficient bit rate.

Welllll.... I dont think we are going to see higher bitrates. Right now we need standards that everyone uses. Content is not streamed from "netflix" or "Apple+" it all comes from Content Deleievery Networks. These work all the way to your local ISP having a file you pull from. There is a huge push to lower content delievery costs. The real trick is to have ONE standard so files from any content owner can be cached, all the way to locally ( cheapest delivery ).. Everybody right now thinks thier method is best.. Its really tricky as you watch a movie/show. It might start streaming from a local file at Comcast, but then switch to a cloud someplace else, if there are overloads it might switch to files anywhere. This is second by second while your watch a show. We have all seen this fail. Your watching and suddenly the pic gets shitty, but then 10 mins later get OK again. Its the content Delivery Network and a lack of standards..

These guys are working on this and trying to get standards working.

https://opencaching.svta.org/
But rest assured,, bandwidth is a BIG % cost that EVERYBODY wants lower. More compression. Better compression...

Funny thing.. While I know NO ONE here will believe me. I discovered that bandwidth is not the big boogyman like I, and everybody, thought. Turns out HDMI was horrendous.. Cleaning up HDMI makes such a difference in pic/sound I can make a ATV streaming look / sound really close to a Oppo or Kaleidescape. I have a lot of forum reviews of long time AV use that did tons of AB and backup what i am saying.

So bandwitch really is OK now. Lots of people just have confuzed really terrible industry wide HDMI issues with thinking its related to bandwidth.

Dont get me wrong. my post production clients using Frame.io and also playing local files at crazy high bitrates have shown me very clearly that 300Mbps looks way better then 10Mbps. BUT. 10Mbps can look / sound way better then you think.

 

[Owen Smith]

So bandwitch really is OK now. Lots of people just have confuzed really terrible industry wide HDMI issues with thinking its related to bandwidth.

Amazon Prime looks poor to me. Apple TV+ looks much better, and is the one with the higher bit rate (18 vs 25 mbits).

 

[Jeffrey Michael]

Interesting. I was using optical hdmi cables and noticed a difference in the picture quality. Unfortunately, they started to fail after a time and now are priced way too high. So, now I just use Amazon Branded cables.

 

[Xymox]

Amazon Prime looks poor to me. Apple TV+ looks much better, and is the one with the higher bit rate (18 vs 25 mbits).

I use a Mikrotik router and can watch bandwidth live. I have not seen 25 Mbps continous. Its pulled in chunks. So you gotta add up the total bits over say 30 mins then divid down to get the real rate.

On a Sony A90J for me with my highly modded ATV they both look drop dead stunning with incredible sound. Of course the production values of each show vary, but, overall they both look stunning and remember I have a LOT of video experence having been a top calibrator for 20+ years. BUT with a stock ATV, its all just **** IMHO..

I have a long thread over on Whats Best on the ATV I modded and there are a LOT of people who were like you. NO WAY a ATV can look / sound as good as BluRay or Kscape. They got a modded ATV and thier stories all changed. HDMI is broken, its ****. NO mfgr addresses the issues. We have all been looking thru glasses covered with **** for so long we have no idea how HDMI should look. I have post production guys who do the shows your talking about that have myu modded ATV, they were shocked...

This is a REALLY long thread that goes thru my development and then tons of people testing it out and doing serious ABs. Bandwidth is just not the issue.. CRAZY as that sounds. If you had told me that a few years ago I would have laughed at you and explained how it WAS the issue. I was VERY wrong.
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/appletv-x-i-am-playing-with-something-new.34884/

 

[Xymox]

Interesting. I was using optical hdmi cables and noticed a difference in the picture quality. Unfortunately, they started to fail after a time and now are priced way too high. So, now I just use Amazon Branded cables.

With my modded ATV I get this question all the time. "What HDMI cable should I use".. I am not sure, even after shipping 250+ ATVXs. All these high end guys have tried all sorts of stuff. The pic, and very clearly sound, really matter with HDMI cables. Overall so far people seem to have found the newest 48G cables are not as good as the older 18G cables. Bluejeans makes great HDMI cables. So does Wireworld.

HDMI is broken.. EVERYBODY thinks bits are bits.. But there is CLEARLY more to this. Sorta like digital audio. Sure your bits are the same, but, jitter is a well established issue that changes sound quality,,, even tho the bits are the same. Same thing with HDMI. Except HDMI jitter is HORRENDOUS.. WHen I modded things I reduced HDMI jitter by 1000 times. Yep, 1000 times lower. It makes a HUGE difference. I agree there are no studies that show this. BUT there should be. I have been talking to some fellow SMPTE members and maybe we might get a study..

 

[pat bateman]

2nd thread in 2 days trying to sell ATVs with a gigantic PSU for 2.5K while disguising as being just an "informative" post. Yesterday's was more entertaining though - he claimed the PSU magically transformed fake Atmos mixes sound into legitimate Atmos. It got locked then deleted, hopefully this one is on its way...

 

[par4ken]

I had to start reading this thread to know what was being talked about! To me ATV stands for "All Terrain Vehicle", Quads (not our sound system) and Side by Sides. The problem with the use of acronyms is that they can have more than one meaning. I never use SQ as a short form for sound quality either!

 

[Owen Smith]

I never use SQ as a short form for sound quality either!

When he started talking about these mods improving SQ I went "What? When did matrix quad have anything to do with Apple TV?"

 

[Misterbee]

Career film editor here, and I always wondered why the Atv did not use a wall wart power supply. I mean, I know *why* (Steve/Jonny Ive), but I did not know that they were mitigating all that RF with a hunk of metal. RF can really mess things up....

As for HDMI, I lack the technical expertise to weigh in on whether or not it is broken, and what solutions would be cost-effective. I have what I would call a "nice" home setup, but not an amazing one. Not sure what I would gain from an modded Atv at any price. After all, I am an editor, not a producer . Maybe If I saw/heard an A/B comparison I could form an opinion, but otherwise I am going to be happy with what I have.