Allman Brothers "Idlewild South" Deluxe Edition with 5.1 surround coming soon!

[himey]

Yes, the hard way. Had I known of your method using MKVmerge GUI, I may have given it a try.

And I wonder why, if the correct timings actually are on the disc, didn't they use them? Operator error apparently.

I don't remember any timing problems with the white album... maybe i need to check.

I think he mentioned the stereo portion is different and that is the one that defaults in the usual ripping tools.

My question is what other blu-rays fall into this category and the times will be off?

 

[timothyemerson]

I think he mentioned the stereo portion is different and that is the one that defaults in the usual ripping tools.

My question is what other blu-rays fall into this category and the times will be off?

Two other BD's spring to mind with slightly wonky authoring that I had to fix in Audacity:
1. The Yes Album: Starship Trooper starts at the end of Clap.
2. Rush - Moving Pictures: Limelight starts at the end of YYZ.

 

[MarkerB]

1. The Yes Album: Starship Trooper starts at the end of Clap.

I ripped this one when it came out, and haven't seen that problem. I listen to "Starship Trooper" more than anything else in surround!

How did you rip "The Yes Album"?

 

[MarkerB]

And I wonder why, if the correct timings actually are on the disc, didn't they use them? Operator error apparently.

That's not quite operator error. It's the Blu-ray author(s) using multiple chapters in the same title, which I assume is a valid thing to do, but somewhere deep in the specs. Unfortunately, it's not supported by many players.

Ideally, both stereo and surround remixes would have the exact same track timings. If I did the stereo remix first, I would use that as a starting point for my surround mix. Track timings should not have needed to change. Maybe they were done by separate people? All "The White Album" remixes were supposed to have been done by Giles Martin, so I can't imagine why they were different. Maybe he lost his project data from one mix, and had to recreate it from scratch for the other!

I don't remember any timing problems with the white album... maybe i need to check.

Please do check that out. I'm curious if you never encountered it; it's pretty obvious if you play a few tracks by themselves. I spent a lot of time manually editing the whole album in SoundForge. Afterward, I think I generated a CUE sheet in case I ever needed it again.

 

[himey]

That's not quite operator error. It's the Blu-ray author(s) using multiple chapters in the same title, which I assume is a valid thing to do, but somewhere deep in the specs. Unfortunately, it's not supported by many players.

Ideally, both stereo and surround remixes would have the exact same track timings. If I did the stereo remix first, I would use that as a starting point for my surround mix. Track timings should not have needed to change. Maybe they were done by separate people? All "The White Album" remixes were supposed to have been done by Giles Martin, so I can't imagine why they were different. Maybe he lost his project data from one mix, and had to recreate it from scratch for the other!
Please do check that out. I'm curious if you never encountered it; it's pretty obvious if you play a few tracks by themselves. I spent a lot of time manually editing the whole album in SoundForge. Afterward, I think I generated a CUE sheet in case I ever needed it again.

If you do have to manually edit one of these, Soundforge seems to work the best using track markers and setting regions...

 

[MarkerB]

If you do have to manually edit one of these, Soundforge seems to work the best using track markers and setting regions...

I agree. SoundForge is indeed handy for this, and one of the simplest DAWs to use. Probably because it doesn't try to be a multi-track recording system; just a mastering DAW.

However, now that this thread informed me there can be alternative chapters within the same title, I'm hopeful that I'll never need to do manually edit again.

 

[himey]

I agree. SoundForge is indeed handy for this, and one of the simplest DAWs to use. Probably because it doesn't try to be a multi-track recording system; just a mastering DAW.

However, now that this thread informed me there can be alternative chapters within the same title, I'm hopeful that I'll never need to do manually edit again.

Soundforge also allows for direct times to milliseconds to be entered and it will create a marker from that time. Handy if you have a list of the chapter times but not a working cue. I later figured out that Audiomuxer handles most lists very well even if not a working cue file. I haven't had to use Soundforge for a couple years now that I figured that out.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Soundforge also allows for direct times to milliseconds to be entered and it will create a marker from that time. Handy if you have a list of the chapter times but not a working cue. I later figured out that Audiomuxer handles most lists very well even if not a working cue file. I haven't had to use Soundforge for a couple years now that I figured that out.

Good to know @himey, I could use those Audiomuxer instructions, since I don't have Soundforge?

 

[MarkerB]

Soundforge... handy if you have a list of the chapter times but not a working cue.

I don't understand this. If you have the proper chapter times available, manually editing the audio files seem like a lot more work... and a lot more error-prone.

There are many ways to derive a CUE file. I myself made a MKV chapter-to-CUE file utility that does the job perfectly. It's available in this post about Bob Marley's "Legend" release.

 

[himey]

I don't understand this. If you have the proper chapter times available, manually editing the audio files seem like a lot more work... and a lot more error-prone.

There are many ways to derive a CUE file. I myself made a MKV chapter-to-CUE file utility that does the job perfectly. It's available in this post about Bob Marley's "Legend" release.

Reread my post.

Thanks I will check it out.

 

[himey]

Good to know @himey, I could use those Audiomuxer instructions, since I don't have Soundforge?

On the main page of Audiomuxer, not in tools/audio conversions, is an option to "cue split". Although it says cue, it will accept a txt list of chapter starts and stops generated from other sources. Other programs don't like some of the txt files that Audiomuxer handles perfectly fine.

 

[MarkerB]

Reread my post.

Ah... now I get it. You didn't explicitly state that AudioMuxer imported whole timing files. I thought you had to manually enter the timings. You cleared this up in a subsequent post. Thanks!

 

[himey]

Here is an example of what Audiomuxer will import and split accordingly that Foobar2000 and the majority of other tools don't recognize.

CHAPTER01=00:00:00.000
CHAPTER01NAME=
CHAPTER02=00:04:07.747
CHAPTER02NAME=
CHAPTER03=00:07:39.334
CHAPTER03NAME=
CHAPTER04=00:10:39.389
CHAPTER04NAME=
CHAPTER05=00:17:38.474
CHAPTER05NAME=
CHAPTER06=00:22:36.689
CHAPTER06NAME=
CHAPTER07=00:26:39.556
CHAPTER07NAME=
CHAPTER08=00:31:00.442
CHAPTER08NAME=
CHAPTER09=00:35:10.942
CHAPTER09NAME=
CHAPTER10=00:43:31.192
CHAPTER10NAME=
CHAPTER11=00:47:19.170
CHAPTER11NAME=
CHAPTER12=00:51:01.809
CHAPTER12NAME=

That is the stereo Idlewild South that doesn't work with the multichannel portion, extracted using HD-DVD BLU-RAY Stream Extractor.

 

[MarkerB]

Here is an example of what Audiomuxer will import and split accordingly that Foobar2000 and the majority of other tools don't recognize.

CHAPTER01=00:00:00.000
CHAPTER01NAME=
...

That's handy!

BTW, this text file format is also recognized by MKVToolNix. I just dragged it into the GUI wrapper's "Chapter Editor", and it went right in. So... two tools at least!

Also, the example format you presented is one of the two export formats available at ChaptersDb.org Movie Chapters Database ... I knew it looked familiar!

 

[timothyemerson]

I ripped this one when it came out, and haven't seen that problem. I listen to "Starship Trooper" more than anything else in surround!

How did you rip "The Yes Album"?

Interesting! I MakeMVK'd it, then Audiomuxer'd the FLACs from it.

 

[MarkerB]

Interesting! I MakeMVK'd it, then Audiomuxer'd the FLACs from it.

So, you had AudioMuxer use the chapter timings from the Blu-ray? Now I wonder if Steve Wilson may have also had two chapter timings. One timing for each remix, something like what we discovered in "Idlewild South". If two these chapter sets were built into "The Yes Album" Blu-ray, maybe AudioMuxer was using the stereo one. How else to explain why you had timing problems between "The Clap" and "Starship Troopers" in your 5.1 rip?

Eh... I suppose there are other things that could've gone wrong.

 

[The Quadfather]

Wow, great news. Hopefully one for Eat A Peach won't be far behind.

If not, it was issued on CD-4 Quadradisc, back in the days.

 

[timothyemerson]

So, you had AudioMuxer use the chapter timings from the Blu-ray? Now I wonder if Steve Wilson may have also had two chapter timings. One timing for each remix, something like what we discovered in "Idlewild South". If two these chapter sets were built into "The Yes Album" Blu-ray, maybe AudioMuxer was using the stereo one. How else to explain why you had timing problems between "The Clap" and "Starship Troopers" in your 5.1 rip?

Eh... I suppose there are other things that could've gone wrong.

Yep, that's correct. On The Yes Album and Moving Pictures, it was just the first part of the first second that appeared at the end of the previous track so I had to do some corrective surgery in Audacity.

 

[MarkerB]

Yep, that's correct. On The Yes Album and Moving Pictures, it was just the first part of the first second that appeared at the end of the previous track so I had to do some corrective surgery in Audacity.

Amazing. I'm just confused that I somehow lucked out.

So, it was only that one track break that was off? Hmm... maybe I simply forgot that I had to manually tweak a single chapter timing from the output of MakeMKV. I guess I'm getting older and it's now been six years since I bought the The Yes Album Blu-ray from Wilson's site. My brain hurts.

(... and I've been watching the new Blu-ray of Monty Python's Flying Circus)

 

[timothyemerson]

Amazing. I'm just confused that I somehow lucked out.

So, it was only that one track break that was off? Hmm... maybe I simply forgot that I had to manually tweak a single chapter timing from the output of MakeMKV. I guess I'm getting older and it's now been six years since I bought the The Yes Album Blu-ray from Wilson's site. My brain hurts.

(... and I've been watching the new Blu-ray of Monty Python's Flying Circus)

Yep, it was just 1 track on each album that had the characteristic.