Beatles 1+ Blu-Ray / DVD 5.1-channel surround audio on Nov 6, 2015

[alk3997]

For those keeping score, Paperback Writer requires a -6dB drop in the LFE.

Each of the songs has had either the front left or front right channel brought up to -0.01dB to make it sound as loud as possible. For instance on Paperback Writer, The front left peak is at -0.01dB and the front right peak is at -0.06dB.

The LFE on Paperback Writer peaks at -7dB with an average value of -23dB. The Anthology Paperback Writer had an LFE peak of -20dB and an average of -31dB. The other channels basically show slight increases in average volume and peak volume with Beatles 1+ versions Anthology. The exceptions were the center channel which showed a slight decrease on Beatles 1+ versus Anthology and the front left channel which showed a 7dB gain in average level with Beatles 1+ versus Anthology.

My ears tell me the front left and front right are compressed more than previous releases but I haven't been able to prove that to myself.

What I can say is that Paperback Writer goes onto the list of LFE issues and it appears to require a reduction in LFE level by -6dB approximately.

Andy

 

[steelydave]

Interview on the BBC with Giles about the 5.1 mixes. If you can't be bothered to read it, he basically says he wanted to make new stereo mixes that had the power of the mono mixes, and didn't feel like he could be adventurous with surround placement because of how famous the material was, but that if he could do a 5.1 mix of The White Album that he'd basically go crazy with surround panning.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-34766693

 

[wavelength]

Interview on the BBC with Giles about the 5.1 mixes. If you can't be bothered to read it, he basically says he wanted to make new stereo mixes that had the power of the mono mixes, and didn't feel like he could be adventurous with surround placement because of how famous the material was, but that if he could do a 5.1 mix of The White Album that he'd basically go crazy with surround panning.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-34766693

In the interview, I hope I'm hearing what I think I'm hearing and that is that Giles is aware of the conservative nature of the Beatles 1 surround mixes. But at the same time, he seems able to justify them which causes me to grit my teeth to some extent. I hope he gets his White Album moment and I hope he has a surround vision in his head that will be something we all want to hear.

 

[fredblue]

Ugh.. What a load of BS. You can do an active discrete surround remix and you can still be respectful of the original..! Steven Wilson does it time and time and time again.. Why they didn't just let him do The Beatles 5.1 and be done with it, IDK..

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Interview on the BBC with Giles about the 5.1 mixes. If you can't be bothered to read it, he basically says he wanted to make new stereo mixes that had the power of the mono mixes, and didn't feel like he could be adventurous with surround placement because of how famous the material was, but that if he could do a 5.1 mix of The White Album that he'd basically go crazy with surround panning.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-34766693

I think that is the problem...what the "decision makers" consider a sacrilege...the surround community considers "enhancing" the sound....although I don't agree with that decision I can understand the thought process behind it...

 

[artwwweb]

When I read that Giles BBC interview I found it depressing. He seemed to be admitting that all along he'd aimed for a big stereo mix, so it's a shame that it was marketed as 5.1 surround sound. Then at the end he mentions that he'd love to mix White Album aggressively. That ought to get people excited, but having been disappointed so many times before, it's more of a tease.

The Yellow Sub Songtrack (stereo) remixes and Love were encouraged by George H, I believe, so we know he would have been happy with some more aggressive remixing. I've said this before, but the problem with The Beatles these days is that it's not Paul and John competing to out-do each other with innovation and perfection, it's Paul and Ringo having to get agreement from Yoko and Olivia about what upsets the fewest people, so you end up with a 'designed by committee' playing it safe situation.

 

[ar surround]

It's all just so maddening! For heaven's sake! After many of us have bought the US mono albums, US singles, US stereo albums, UK import stereo albums, MoFi box set, 1987 redbook CDs, 2009 CD stereo remasters, 2009 CD mono box, movies on VHS and again on DVD/BluRay, you'd think that they'd give us something sonically different and more creative to sink our ears into. Most of the complaints on Amazon are about the lousy 5.1 mixes. The purists have gotten everything they've asked for so why not us? :howl:howl:howl

 

[Clint Eastwood]

It's all just so maddening! For heaven's sake! After many of us have bought the US mono albums, US singles, US stereo albums, UK import stereo albums, MoFi box set, 1987 redbook CDs, 2009 CD stereo remasters, 2009 CD mono box, movies on VHS and again on DVD/BluRay, you'd think that they'd give us something sonically different and more creative to sink our ears into. Most of the complaints on Amazon are about the lousy 5.1 mixes. The purists have gotten everything they've asked for so why not us? :howl:howl:howl

Unfortunately the majority rules...and needless to say we(surround community)aren't that group...kinda sucks...but that's our position in the pecking order....I'm just happy to get the surround releases that we are getting..

 

[edisonbaggins]

...I'm just happy to get the surround releases that we are getting...

Yes!!!

 

[alk3997]

LFE Reduction scoreboard update for this morning:

Ticket To Ride = -15dB
We Can Work It Out = -9dB
Paperback Writer = -6dB
Penny Lane = -6dB
All You Need Is Love = -4.5dB

Note: All tracks not listed, up to and including Lady Madonna on Disc 1, do not require any change to the LFE channel level.

This continues to be the loudest Beatles release ever. There is not a single song, so far, that doesn't have peaks right near 0dB on both the front left and front right channels.

Andy

 

[atrocity]

The Blu-Ray authoring is nothing short of bizarre, from a human interface and a common sense perspective. If I hit "play all", I wait a LONG time between tracks, and then typically lose the attack on the first note of each track.

YES!!! I was so irritated by the "surround" mix that I'd forgotten about that. I'm not sure about the regular disc, but another oddity is that the 1+ disc omits the slates (song title and acquisition format data) if you play the songs individually. It reminds me of the infuriatingly stupid convention of tracking live CDs with "And now we're gonna play a song called..." at the end of the prior track rather than at the beginning of the track containing the song being announced.

At the risk of repeating myself, while I'm happy that some multiple versions were included when they were available, it would have been nice to have the alternate "Revolution" which is a completely different fucking performance! As good as the good parts are (and they are good), there are a lot of things about this release that couldn't have been more screwed up if they were deliberately trying to screw it up.

 

[atrocity]

What I don't understand, why when making a 5.1 mix, it should be exactly like the stereo (if you want that, play the stereo). Also why bother to do it and not using all speakers. Again, surround critics should stick to stereo.

And it's not like they couldn't have created wimpy SurroundLite(tm) for the delicate flowers as well as insanely fun mixes for us weirdos. Multiple soundtracks have been part of the DVD and Blu-ray standard forever. Paging Talking Heads...

 

[ssully]

LFE Reduction scoreboard update for this morning:

Ticket To Ride = -15dB
We Can Work It Out = -9dB
Paperback Writer = -6dB
Penny Lane = -6dB
All You Need Is Love = -4.5dB

Note: All tracks not listed, up to and including Lady Madonna on Disc 1, do not require any change to the LFE channel level.

This continues to be the loudest Beatles release ever. There is not a single song, so far, that doesn't have peaks right near 0dB on both the front left and front right channels.

Andy

So I take it, this is not simply a case of LFE 'doubling' the bass in other channels? (Which if so, could be corrected by ripping the tracks and deleting the LFE channel)?

 

[alk3997]

So I take it, this is not simply a case of LFE 'doubling' the bass in other channels? (Which if so, could be corrected by ripping the tracks and deleting the LFE channel)?

Correct, unfortunately. I had originally thought that they hadn't removed the LFE from the mains but looking at the differing LFE levels, it seems there are some tracks that the LFE was just brought too close to 0dB. I'm beginning to suspect it was their algorithm that made every song loud. As they brought up the front sides, somehow the LFE was brought up as well, but way too much.

Either way, the only way to correct that I can see is to lower the LFE (only) by the amounts shown.

Andy

 

[strat54]

I don't know if this has been posted before

The Beatles in 3D: Giles Martin on remixing the Fab Four
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-34766693

 

[Eclectic]

I'm not sure if this belongs on this thread or the review thread, but I took a shot at making an audio only 5.1 album out of the appropriate material from 1 and 1+. To a first approximation, I eliminated all of the tracks whose sound quality wasn't up to studio standards and all duplicates, interleaved the tracks from the two discs in a historically defensible order, and edited the starts and ends of some tracks to make it flow like an album. Here's the sequence I arrived at:

01 Twist And Shout
02 Love Me Do
03 I Want To Hold Your Hand
04 I Feel Fine
05 Eight Days a Week
06 Ticket To Ride
07 Help!
08 Day Tripper
09 We Can Work It Out
10 Paperback Writer
11 Rain
12 Yellow Submarine
13 Hey Bulldog
14 Eleanor Rigby
15 Strawberry Fields
16 Penny Lane
17 Within You Without You - Tomorrow Never Knows
18 A Day In The Life
19 All You Need Is Love
20 Hello, Goodbye
21 Lady Madonna
22 Revolution
23 Get Back
24 Don't Let Me Down
25 Ballad Of John And Yoko
26 Something
27 Come Together
28 Let It Be
29 The Long And Winding Road

And here's the edit list:

01 Twist And Shout - Add 1 s. silence to start (necessary for my receiver to play the attack)
03 I Want to Hold Your And - trim end
06 Ticket To Ride - trim end
10 Paperback Writer - trim end
11 Rain - trim end
13 Hey Bulldog - trim end
15 Strawberry Fields - trim end
16 Penny Lane - trim start
19 All you need is love - trim end
21 Lady Madonna - trim end
22 Revolution - silence road noise at beginning
23 Get Back - fade out end to mitigate road noise
28 Let it Be - trim end
29 Long And Winding Road - trim start

The resulting program is quite listenable, though it's no LOVE. The one track that doesn't sound "studio" is Get Back, which contains some (intentionally added?) road noise that would probably be hard for me to remove.

 

[JohnN]

More: http://www.todayonline.com/entertainment/music/its-beatles-sale-again?singlepage=true
By Christopher Toh
SINGAPORE
“The videos have … never ever looked this good; so that’s a good thing. The songs have never sounded this good and in surround, too,” said Martin.

Together with his team, Martin redid the music with new stereo and 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS HD surround audio mixes. These, he said, make the songs “more punchy”.

“The job and the pressure put on by The Beatles — and everyone else — is that they wanted me to make everything sound brilliant. And I went, ‘Doesn’t it already sound brilliant?’ and they went, ‘Yes but we want it to sound even more brilliant’. It’s a challenge, but an honour too,” said Martin.

“Of course, no one has to buy it. Okay, that’s not a very good sales pitch, I know, but all I can say is that it’s a perfect companion, especially the DVD — it’s quite emotional watching it and seeing the progression of the band,” he added.

“I don’t have to tell people why they should buy The Beatles, they don’t have to buy this at all. All I can say is I put every ounce of my heart and soul into it to make it sound good. I don’t think this is a cynical marketing project. I really don’t. If you get the package you’ll see that a lot of care has gone into it.

“There are Beatles ashtrays, and then there’s this. If you want to spend your money on something, spend it on this.”

Of course, as with any music release relating to The Beatles, there will be brickbats, and Martin is fully prepared for that eventuality. “You will always make mistakes. It’s human nature. I try not to read all the comments. If anyone is going to criticise the work, it’s going to me; and trust me, I’m going to say a lot worse things than other people would,” he said.
“You put your heart into everything, but you could go mad if you got wound up in that. I just go home and play with daughters and have a nice time. I try to go see my dad — he’s now 89 — and we watch sports on TV and drink champagne, sometimes. And you just have to get on with life.”

Speaking of getting on with life, Martin, whom some have dubbed as the man taking over the mantle from his father for producing The Beatles’ music, is going to leave the Fab Four aside for the immediate future. “I do have another life, you know? I’m working on Star Wars at the moment. I’m also the head of sound for the audio company Sonos, which makes speakers.”

Nevertheless, Martin said that there are some Beatles projects he would not mind taking a crack at, such as a re-issue of the Live At The Hollywood Bowl album, which was released on vinyl in 1977. Unlike other Beatles albums that have been remastered and digitised, the Hollywood Bowl concerts have remained untouched and fans have been clamouring for a digital version of that album.

“I have to be honest. There’s more stuff that we don’t do than we do. The original recordings for the Hollywood Bowl concerts didn’t sound that great. My father would say so himself,” he said.

But there could be light at the end of that tunnel. Martin, who is involved with director Ron Howard’s new Beatles project chronicling Beatlemania and the band’s touring years, said that reworking the sound for The Beatles’ 1966 live performances at Japan’s Budokan Theatre (which he did for the Martin Scorsese documentary about George Harrison, Living In The Material World) is a sign that cleaning up the Hollywood Bowl recordings can be done.

“Here’s the thing: We have to make sure the technology is right to make it sound good. I’m always working with new forms of technology ... (but) you have to not overdo things or overcook stuff,” Martin elaborated. “So I will be finding ways to make Hollywood Bowl sound great, and you will hear it.”

 

[proufo]

This continues to be the loudest Beatles release ever. There is not a single song, so far, that doesn't have peaks right near 0dB on both the front left and front right channels.

Hello Andy.

I think I know what you mean but it could be confusing due to the current usage of "loud" as in "loudness war".

Normalizing to 0dB doesn't imply by itself excessive compression (not that you are saying that). It would sound louder of course but just because most CDs are not mastered at that level.

 

[proufo]

“There are Beatles ashtrays, and then there’s this. If you want to spend your money on something, spend it on this.”

Hey, Giles, I have Beatles coasters!

I wouldn't buy them, it was a gift. My children got them during their Beatles pilgrimage to Liverpool.

 

[alk3997]

Hello Andy.
I think I know what you mean but it could be confusing due to the current usage of "loud" as in "loudness war".

Normalizing to 0dB doesn't imply by itself excessive compression (not that you are saying that). It would sound louder of course but just because most CDs are not mastered at that level.

Let me expand a little more. First, thanks for the comment and I've been vague in what I mean because I don't want to throw in a bunch of numbers again.

Actually I believe it is both in this case. My normal listening level is at -25dB. For Beatles 1+ I'm down to -35dB. That's not just normalization doing that. But, I'll leave it up to the loudness war folks to decide if it is compression / limiting causing the increase in apparent loudness.

An interesting example is that on Let It Be, both the Front Left and Front Right stay consistently on the VU meters between -4dB and 0dB throughout the last 2:30 of the song. I'm trying not to blame this on compression but I think I'm running out of alternatives.

Andy