HiRez Poll Chicago - QUADIO [BluRay Audio]

[keenly]

Bass heavy! Could be great when I get my sub properly calibrated.

 

[keenly]

Guys, stop readjusting your systems over this. It's just a typical mixing problem. This is one of the reasons that 5.1 is really better than 4.0, you can keep the lead vocals localized & loud in the center. Some quad mixes resolve a phantom center so perfectly that you would swear that the center was active (Full Sail or Can't Buy A Thrill, for example). On many quad mixes (especially Chicago VIII, for instance), the front vocals get a little lost. The entire The Hoople Q8 suffers from this, the lead vocals are almost inaudible, and it's much worse on the SQ LP. There is nothing you can do to adjust for this, just live with it. Happy Man suffers from this also.

Yep

 

[keenly]

The 5.1 mix of America - Homecoming is amazing and I wouldn't change anything about it...then you have Hearts in quad that is also exceptional. Steven Wilson does his thing in 5.1 and then you have Andy Jackson that does his in 4.0. To me it isn't the amount of speakers but what you do with what you use.

If you do quad you have to have perfect stereo imaging, something I do not have in my asymmetrical room. Center speaker vocals are a God send to me.

 

[himey]

If you do quad you have to have perfect stereo imaging, something I do not have in my asymmetrical room. Center speaker vocals are a God send to me.

I have more than one listening positions due to a theater screen on one end of my room and a tv on the other end. I switch my fronts and rear connections frequently. I actually forget sometimes which is the front information and which is the back until the lead vocals kick in which I realize that is my fronts. That is with a good quad mix and a few 5.1 mixes. My room isn't perfect but it has many attributes that makes for good sound. No tile floors, drapes instead of only blinds, no high ceilings, not a gigantic room, ect. My center channel is at the end of the room with the theatre screen so when I use my tv and switch my fronts to rears, I don't use my center channel and run a phantom center. It still sounds excellent and I actually prefer this setup for quad stuff. One of these days I will post some pics so you can get a visual of my room.

 

[drphibes]

I voted ten, and I almost never give a perfect score. "7" is still pretty good in my book. Titles that I love are often 8 or 9. Five - Six is for titles I like but don't find myself wanting to put on, and anything less than that is for titles I actively dislike.

Great value for the money, and I now appreciate a band that I barely gave any consideration. The 4.0 mixes sound perfect to my amateur ears.

 

[JonUrban]

Guys, stop readjusting your systems over this. It's just a typical mixing problem. This is one of the reasons that 5.1 is really better than 4.0, you can keep the lead vocals localized & loud in the center. Some quad mixes resolve a phantom center so perfectly that you would swear that the center was active (Full Sail or Can't Buy A Thrill, for example). On many quad mixes (especially Chicago VIII, for instance), the front vocals get a little lost. The entire The Hoople Q8 suffers from this, the lead vocals are almost inaudible, and it's much worse on the SQ LP. There is nothing you can do to adjust for this, just live with it. Happy Man suffers from this also.

Larry, I don't have an issue with the vocal on Happy Man, even in the car. Did you make a DVD-A from the BluRay to play in the car and experience the lower vocal?

 

[Larry Geller]

Larry, I don't have an issue with the vocal on Happy Man, even in the car. Did you make a DVD-A from the BluRay to play in the car and experience the lower vocal?

I have that awesome Best Of DL DVD-A that is "out there". Happy Man is the same there, many other tracks have the lowered vocals. It is what it is. I love it anyway.


I'm an idiot. I just realized I'm talking about Call On Me, not Happy Man. You do hear what I'm talking about with The Hoople, however?

 

[himey]

I have that awesome Best Of DL DVD-A that is "out there". Happy Man is the same there, many other tracks have the lowered vocals. It is what it is. I love it anyway.


I'm an idiot. I just realized I'm talking about Call On Me, not Happy Man. You do hear what I'm talking about with The Hoople, however?

The backup vocals in the rears seemed to be mixed louder than the lead vocals in the front...I wouldn't blame the quad format however, it is the way it was mixed. Plenty of quad releases don't get mixed like that and it has nothing to do with a lack of center speaker.

 

[Larry Geller]

The backup vocals in the rears seemed to be mixed louder than the lead vocals in the front...I wouldn't blame the quad format however, it is the way it was mixed. Plenty of quad releases don't get mixed like that and it has nothing to do with a lack of center speaker.

Exactly.

 

[himey]

Exactly.

Nilsson Schmilsson, as much as I like that mix, has a bit of this going on too.

I sometimes run a phantom center when listening to 5.1 mixes and the vocals rarely ever get recessed like they do in some of the quad mixes. That leads me to believe it was a mixing choice and not a flaw of the quad, four corners, layout.

 

[rtbluray]

Nilsson Schmilsson, as much as I like that mix, has a bit of this going on too.

I sometimes run a phantom center when listening to 5.1 mixes and the vocals rarely ever get recessed like they do in some of the quad mixes. That leads me to believe it was a mixing choice and not a flaw of the quad, four corners, layout.

The reason center channel information sounds louder when you switch the center channel to 'off' and the sound is routed to the front left and right channels is because what's mixed to the center channel is designed to be heard from one speaker, so when that information is route to two speakers, the loudness is doubled! That's why when you're creating a down mix of a 5.1 mix, you're supposed to lower the center channel by 3 dB so the level is the same.

 

[JediJoker]

The reason center channel information sounds louder when you switch the center channel to 'off' and the sound is routed to the front left and right channels is because what's mixed to the center channel is designed to be heard from one speaker, so when that information is route to two speakers, the loudness is doubled! That's why when you're creating a down mix of a 5.1 mix, you're supposed to lower the center channel by 3 dB so the level is the same.

That should be handled automatically by whatever panning law your mixer is using.

 

[himey]

The reason center channel information sounds louder when you switch the center channel to 'off' and the sound is routed to the front left and right channels is because what's mixed to the center channel is designed to be heard from one speaker, so when that information is route to two speakers, the loudness is doubled! That's why when you're creating a down mix of a 5.1 mix, you're supposed to lower the center channel by 3 dB so the level is the same.

I doubt every processor is identical. If mine was doing something funky like that, I would like to think I would notice considering how much stuff I listen to. Many things in 5.1 includes center channel information other than just vocals. If instruments were getting a boost like that, it would be off probably enough to be obvious. Never have had the urge to bump it down on anything. Thanks. I will see if I can find any info relating specifically to my Oppo on the subject and do a comparison just in case...

I never thaught the vocals sounded louder in relation to 5.1 with the center ON compared to with it OFF, it was an observation on 5.1 mixes with phantom center vs quad mixes with recessed lead vocals in front.

 

[Franklin]

Billy Joel's You're My Home has recessed lead vocals in quad. Don't know why, but it's a shame.

 

[fredblue]

Billy Joel's You're My Home has recessed lead vocals in quad. Don't know why, but it's a shame.

It does indeed, sadly, not least because I reckon its got a rather nice surround mix bursting to get out.. fwiw I've had a few layman's attempts at rejigging it, still not happy with it by any stretch but like so much of this stuff I'm just a rank amateur with a shortage of knowledge and lack of time flailing about in the dark (literally, sleepless nights at the computer spent fiddling around with some of these old Quads to try and make them "sound better" to my lugholes..) and like so many of my attempts it only kinda improved.. kind of.. so after a few goes I abandoned it!

Essentially, I found it helped boosting FL&FR a couple of db, lowering SL&SR a couple of db; inverting the phase of FL&FR - no idea why but this seemed to bring the vocals out a bit more? results were the opposite of what I was expecting in that regard but what the heck it costs nothing to do it so I did and it made the vocals less muffled/recessed to me anyway so there you go ..and then the hard bit, for me anyway, was EQ-ing the fronts (I left the rear channels' EQ alone, they seemed alright to me) ..tbh I found the toughest part was trying to bring out the vocals by EQ-ing FL&FR somewhat without things like cymbals and acoustic guitar getting overly bright in the rest of the mix.. anyway, there you go AquaMike, just another episode in the ongoing saga of The Adventures of Fred's Quad Folly! Take me back to Chicago..!!

 

[Ranasakawa]

The best of Mountain in Quad has to be the worst I have heard.

I'm still trying to source a box set of this Chicago Quads in Australia. Seems impossible to find anyone who sells it.

 

[seilerbird]

The best of Mountain in Quad has to be the worst I have heard.

I'm still trying to source a box set of this Chicago Quads in Australia. Seems impossible to find anyone who sells it.

Do they sing the songs with an Australian accent?

 

[himey]

Do they sing the songs with an Australian accent?

No. The Mountain quad has hillbilly accents.

 

[rtbluray]

That should be handled automatically by whatever panning law your mixer is using.

You would think that, but Pro Tools doesn't compensate for the change. (Don't know about other DAWs)
I did a whole project on this and more over a year ago.

Anyway, as Robert Lamm once sang, "Take Me Back to Chicago".

 

[Larry Geller]

The best of Mountain in Quad has to be the worst I have heard.

What's wrong with it? I was just listening to it in the car yesterday, and it sounds light years better than the horribly-mixed stereo LP, the best this material has ever sounded.