HiRez Poll Chicago - QUADIO [BluRay Audio]

[himey]

How is only the center channel vital to the vocals? A great vocal mix in a stereo-like fashion can be just as effective as a separate center IMO, even on a quad mix.

Most quad mixes are not mixed with with the vocals front and center. Some people have a preference for 5.1 mixes over quad because many of them do have the vocals up front and in the center. I prefer a mix, quad or 5.1, that isn't front heavy with music and vocals, I want my rears to be "balanced" with the fronts musically, that is most important to me, not the vocals.

I can only name one quad mix off the top of my head, that the vocals are mixed into the fronts, where they are COMPLETELY front and center to the entire 4.0 mix, and that is the album "Sundown."

 

[ar surround]

Most quad mixes are not mixed with with the vocals front and center. Some people have a preference for 5.1 mixes over quad because many of them do have the vocals up front and in the center. I prefer a mix, quad or 5.1, that isn't front heavy with music and vocals, I want my rears to be "balanced" with the fronts musically, that is most important to me, not the vocals.

I can only name one quad mix off the top of my head, that the vocals are mixed into the fronts, where they are COMPLETELY front and center to the entire 4.0 mix, and that is the album "Sundown."

Sundown? Ah yes, and now it is time for me to beg AF to get us that Quad too. Greed is good...at least when it comes to getting stuff issued in surround sound! (Sorry for the off-topic post, but I couldn't help myself.)

 

[bigshot]

So you could never give any quad mix a 10?...that's interesting...at least now others looking at this poll for information on a potential purchase recognize your stance on quad recordings..

If I find one that sounds as good as the best 5.1 I would. But I haven't heard one yet and I have a pile of them.

How is only the center channel vital to the vocals? A great vocal mix in a stereo-like fashion can be just as effective as a separate center IMO, even on a quad mix.

In stereo mixes, vocals are almost always recorded mono and placed either center, or potted a bit to the left or right. Putting them in a dedicated center speaker sounds better than having them mixed into the left to right soundstage. It provides a rock solid placement in the sound stage and separates them from the instruments. Obviously, there are effects in goofy prog rock albums that are handled differently, but Sinatra style pop-vocal albums sound fantastic, and the vocals are always square in the phantom center. Elton John's SACDs are like that too, especially the simple vocal and piano songs, and they are the most vivid and lifelike multichannel recordings I've heard.

Another consideration is the size of the room. My theater/listening room is quite large, and the center channel helps a lot to make sure the phantom center doesn't dip. Quad would work better if you can keep the speakers closer together in a bedroom sized room but that isn't what I've got to work with.

 

[fredblue]

If I find one that sounds as good as the best 5.1 I would. But I haven't heard one yet and I have a pile of them.



In stereo mixes, vocals are almost always recorded mono and placed either center, or potted a bit to the left or right. Putting them in a dedicated center speaker sounds better than having them mixed into the left to right soundstage. It provides a rock solid placement in the sound stage and separates them from the instruments. Obviously, there are effects in goofy prog rock albums that are handled differently, but Sinatra style pop-vocal albums sound fantastic, and the vocals are always square in the phantom center. Elton John's SACDs are like that too, especially the simple vocal and piano songs, and they are the most vivid and lifelike multichannel recordings I've heard.

Another consideration is the size of the room. My theater/listening room is quite large, and the center channel helps a lot to make sure the phantom center doesn't dip. Quad would work better if you can keep the speakers closer together in a bedroom sized room but that isn't what I've got to work with.

Room & speaker EQ & calibration should be able to help compensate for things like room size or speaker positioning.

How far apart are your Front L&R?
How far away are Front L&R from Rear L&R?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Another consideration is the size of the room. My theater/listening room is quite large, and the center channel helps a lot to make sure the phantom center doesn't dip. Quad would work better if you can keep the speakers closer together in a bedroom sized room but that isn't what I've got to work with.

I agree that as the distance between the F/R stereo channels increase, the less effective a phantom center illusion becomes. It is even more problematic if the distance between the speakers is large relative to the distance between the center spot and the listening position. You will begin to get the impression of dual mono sources.

 

[fredblue]

I agree that as the distance between the F/R stereo channels increase, the less effective a phantom center illusion becomes. It is even more problematic if the distance between the speakers is large relative to the distance between the center spot and the listening position. You will begin to get the impression of dual mono sources.

How big a distance apart are you talking?
Have you tried toeing the speakers in?

I'm conscious we're in a Poll and this should be taken elsewhere..?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

How big a distance apart are you talking?
Have you tried toeing the speakers in?

I'm conscious we're in a Poll and this should be taken elsewhere..?

I don't have this issue with my setup but I have heard it. Problems would certainly occur with something like a distance between r/l of 18 feet but you are listening from only 6 feet back. I'm sure you can make the metric conversion.

 

[fredblue]

I don't have this issue with my setup but I have heard it. Problems would certainly occur with something like a distance between r/l of 18 feet but you are listening from only 6 feet back. I'm sure you can make the metric conversion.

Fair enough, though my point would be if encountering this in a 4.0/5.1 setup an AVR with some mic-captured EQ setup thing like Audyssey should compensate for all that with time and distance delay and volume & EQ adjustment etc, no?

Fwiw, I am in a small room, with Front L&R (slightly toed-in) set 8ft apart and 8ft away from listening position.. and in that situation vocals often sound uncannily like they're emanating from dead centre front yet many times upon further investigation that centre speaker is totally inactive, so I can see the benefits in equidistance in these matters.
(Ps. I don't need to convert to metric btw, I'm a builder we need to know imperial measures inside out.. oh and I like a beer and they're all still served in Pints.. Hoorah! )

Anyway, this is all very interesting but shall we get back on topic now chaps??
Chicago, Quadio, I will show you around!

 

[edisonbaggins]

Anyway, this is all very interesting but shall we get the topic now on chaps??

Sure. I've never worn them, but I'm willing to try new things. :yikes

 

[fredblue]

Sure. I've never worn them, but I'm willing to try new things. :yikes

I said Lossless, not Assless..!!

 

[edisonbaggins]

I said Lossless, not Assless..!!

It may be lossy, but that's because it's worn down. Still long play though...

 

[Quadly McQuadmeister]

I strenuously disagree with the post that the Stereo mixes of "II" are "shrill". (Irrespective of format. I have them all. Twice over. lol.....) It (Chicago/II-in particular the horns) sounds like they're recorded in a Kleenex box. VERY different from both CTA and the later albums.

The 5.1 was (until now) the least offensive. This set is as close to perfect as it gets. If I were Loughnane (and the band) I'd go back and digitally FIX the horns no matter how much knob twisting it took to do it. The cymbals have sheen, the guitar has sheen, the vocals WANT to have sheen, but not particularly. The horns emphatically do not. It might be post facto revisionism, but in service to the Music (and the musicians) I'd do it in a heartbeat. "II/Chicago" is a masterpiece musically. And it's a travesty engineering-wise.
I get that some folks prefer the AMT model of the Enterprise running on a dolly (with cigarette lighter burns) in that famous episode of Star Trek-TOS. Not me.......I want both, but prefer the CGI versions when I actually watch it. YMMV.

 

[bktouchstone]

It would be extremely difficult for any artist to sustain a "10" across this number of albums. But I have to say that these are uniformly excellent. My nits (and really, these are nits) are that with my system/room acoustics it's occasionally a little "bass-y" in places and on rare occasions the center vocals are a little weak. Regarding the bass remark, I tend to find the "one setting meets all needs" on bass management and stick with it, so across my collection some things are right on, some light, and some bass-y but not over powering. Still, the sound quality is superb, and the scope of what's been done here is incredible. I voted a 9 based on the usual criteria, but when you consider the packaging, the number of discs, and the sheer value, it's a 10. I am very glad I own this, and I hope it is a huge success for Rhino, as I would buy more from them. Purge your vaults Rhino and I will purge my wallet. Deal?

 

[Quadly McQuadmeister]

Chicago was at their creative peak then. "10" is not an overstatement in my estimation. But I will say the LP's that sold the most were not the albums that were the most musically ambitious. "X" was quite good, but no, it's not "Transit Authority". The market wouldn't accept "Transit Authority" in 1976. Chicago's fights with Columbia about razoring their singles was a fight they eventually lost. And as their songs got shorter their bank account got bigger. It is what it was.....lol...

 

[bgf1973]

Hi:

I just bought mine. Only 92.76 € in Amazon.es (I am from Spain)

 

[Ranasakawa]

Thanks to Amazon uk I paid $96 Australian delivered. So far I've listened to the greatest hits disc. Sure is beefed up to my ears compared to the DVD-A vinyl rips and far clearer.
I won't give a score until I play most of them. So far very impressed.

 

[kap'n krunch]

...still waiting for mine....

 

[uffeolby]

...still waiting for mine....

So am I!! SpinCD?

 

[kap'n krunch]

So am I!! SpinCD?

Yes!

Just wrote Steve another email....I know that it has been delayed even longer but now I'm starting to get antsy...

 

[IMachine]

Yes!

Just wrote Steve another email....I know that it has been delayed even longer but now I'm starting to get antsy...

I have cancelled it two weeks ago and ordered it from JPC!