Supertramp - CRIME OF THE CENTURY - Where is it?!

[marcb]

Read somewhere that the band really isn't into surround...

I’d be surprised if they’ve even discussed it, let alone have a singular view on it.

 

[fourml8r]

the band is pretty much defunct now. their website has not been updated since 2015. i don't think anyone in the band has intentions to do anything more with their recordings.

 

[madscot]

How about it!
I was just listening to Crime once more and thinking about (if the stems exist) what a wonderful surround mix this has the capability of becoming. I'd just love to hear it and the others.

It sounds amazing in fake surround on my Denon avr, lots of discrete moments in the rears

 

[Sal1950]

It sounds amazing in fake surround on my Denon avr, lots of discrete moments in the rears

Which mode do you prefer for this album, DD, DTS, Auro ?

 

[madscot]

Which mode do you prefer for this album, DD, DTS, Auro ?

DTS-Neural

 

[Sal1950]

DTS-Neural

Thanks, just curious. Mostly with my Denon I prefer the Dolby with Center Spread engaged but can't say I directly compared them
with this particular recording. I'll have to give it a try with the next spin.

 

[DuncanS]

DTS-Neural

Thanks, just curious. Mostly with my Denon I prefer the Dolby with Center Spread engaged but can't say I directly compared them
with this particular recording. I'll have to give it a try with the next spin.

I have found I sometimes prefer the DTS Neural+ which my Denon often defaults to with a 5.1 DTS disc - as I'm amazed at what it extracts and sticks in the heights
Edit: I'll have to try it with the stereo Crime Of The Century BD

 

[Rob Bills]

Yes, Crisis would be wonderful especially in Hi-Rez. I’ve got the Blu-rays of COTC & Breakfast, how about their other albums - at least in Stereo Hi-Rez

 

[JulesRules]

the band is pretty much defunct now. their website has not been updated since 2015. i don't think anyone in the band has intentions to do anything more with their recordings.

Defunct and dysfunctional. Helliwell, Thomson and Siebenberg recently sued Davies and Hodgson because they stopped paying them a share of the songwriting royalties as once fixed in a contract back in the 70s. Davies settled out of court but Hodgson didn't (and would end up winning because the 1977 contract didn't state that those payments would continue in perpetuity).

Both sides in the case said that the legal battle centred on greed, but there was a difference of opinion over who was being greedy. According to Law360, Hodgson's lawyer, Alan S Gutman, summed up at the end of a week-long trial by stating that the dispute is “all about greed”, adding, “This is about a pack of wolves coming after my client for a piece of the songwriting royalties - for the songs that he wrote, that came from his soul, that he developed".

Responding, David M Given - representing former Supertramp members John Helliwell, Robert Siebenberg and Douglas Thomson - motioned to the ageing musicians and said, "Pack of wolves? Do these guys look like a pack of wolves to you? This is about greed and keeping your promise".

 

[somethingcleveridunno]

If they had any sense, they'd get a trustee to manage the business affairs and licenses while they sue each other, and we'd get Atmos mixes, and they'd get a bigger pile of money to fight over.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

If they had any sense, they'd get a trustee to manage the business affairs and licenses while they sue each other, and we'd get Atmos mixes, and they'd get a bigger pile of money to fight over.

Indeed... They all fall out over money but give very little thought to all the fans who've paid their wages over the years!

 

[somethingcleveridunno]

Indeed... They all fall out over money but give very little thought to all the fans who've paid their wages over the years!

And the pile of money they're leaving on the table from those fans who'd buy the albums all over again if put in the hands of a good surround engineer.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

And the pile of money they're leaving on the table from those fans who'd buy the albums all over again if put in the hands of a good surround engineer.

That would mean they'd all have to get (their lawyers) together to thrash out new royalty deals. Sadly I can't see that happening now. Not unless they sell their entire catalogue to and interested party...

 

[Bill B]

Another scenario where fans have to hope to out live all the members for even a chance to ever hear them in surround.

 

[Misterbee]

And the pile of money they're leaving on the table from those fans who'd buy the albums all over again if put in the hands of a good surround engineer.

Sadly, that fanbase gets smaller every year. And the number who would purchase physical product is even smaller.

COTC is one of my fantasy Atmos mixes. Couple of years back, I found an email address for Ken Scott. I wrote to him, asking about the possibility of surround mixes for Supertramp. Not surprisingly, I did not get a response.

I don’t know who owns their catalog anymore, is it UMG? Perhaps they could be persuaded, if they could be convinced that they would recoup cost of mixing. But I’m really not sure that the potential income from streaming services would make it worthwhile.

Add in the perpetual disharmony among the band members, And I’m afraid we are left with very little incentive for anyone to want to take on this project.

 

[privateuniverse]

I don’t know who owns their catalog anymore, is it UMG?

It is. Which presents another problem. Did any of the multitracks go up in the fire?

Also, in a post a little while back, @Stephen W Tayler mentioned missing multitracks for Crime of the Century.

 

[Orgillian197]

A long post written by Roger nine years ago on Facebook regarding his dissatisfaction with the release of the Paris DVD:

Dear friends and fans,

Many of you have asked me about the status of the Paris DVD, so I wanted to write to you directly with the latest news. Unfortunately many laws, both legal and moral, were broken and the Paris DVD is now about to be put out using illegal and unethical methods. It is now in the hands of attorneys to resolve the legal dispute between the publishing company and the labels. I don’t know which side will win, yet what I’ve learned in the music business, it’s usually whichever attorneys have the most funding, not necessarily the ones who are in the right.

What Eagle Rock and John, Bob and Dougie (who are calling themselves “the Supertramp Partnership”) are trying to do is to take away our songwriters rights. Legally, a label needs songwriters’ and publisher’s approval to put this type of product out and instead they are twisting some kind of legal loophole trying to say they don’t need the required licenses. Songwriters are given legal rights and yet in the industry, they are getting ripped off in all kinds of ways and if this goes through, it is going to make things even more difficult for songwriters. What they are trying to do in claiming they can take away the songwriters and publishing rights could make it possible for other labels to do this to other songwriters in the future.

An attorney friend of mine who has been in the music industry 40 years who is also a publisher and has worked a lot with the Beatles catalog said he has never heard of anyone doing this in the music business - for a label to try to put out a DVD without the publishing company and songwriter’s approval. This whole issue is much bigger than this one DVD. They are not only trying to take away rights from Rick and myself as songwriters, they are affecting the rights of songwriters all over the world with what they are trying to do.

Back in the spring and summer of 2011, I was working with the band and Eagle in a spirit of cooperation to release the Paris DVD. I spent many, many hours reviewing and giving artistic feedback and edits – and this was only at the very beginning of putting together the DVD. There were many things I compromised on, yet we told them I would give my songwriters approval and other rights that I have as a founding member of Supertramp as long as they incorporated the minimal things I asked for – and that they agreed to in writing and then I heard nothing else about it.

Last summer we were told that the DVD was shelved because of whatever quality issues Rick had with it, he did not approve of the release. And we were told Eagle would not release the DVD until they got approval from the publishing company, who represent the songwriters - so I thought the project was dead. Then a few weeks ago I found out the band guys had been working on the DVD all this time secretly behind my back, completely violating the spirit of cooperation I had been in with them up until then.

The only reason I even received a copy was because a fan let me know it was coming out and I asked Eagle to send me one, which I received just a few days ago - after it has already been shipped to distributors. I was shocked receiving the DVD completely manufactured and shrink wrapped before I’d even seen it! There is a whole montage of pictures, bonus materials and liner notes which I have never seen and have never been given the opportunity to comment on. They are putting out a product that is supposed to be representing all five of us, and it’s not. It is only representing the three of them.

Bob, John and Dougie are representing themselves to Eagle as the ‘Supertramp partnership’ and the contract is just between the three of them and Eagle. Whether you are a Rick fan or a Roger fan or both, I feel all fans would agree that it’s not right for the three non-songwriters to control the Supertramp catalog, claiming I have no artistic voice, no input, no say at all in the creation of any Supertramp products, and yet they want to use my performances, my image and likeness and my songs.

To have received this DVD all packaged at the very last minute feels very out of integrity. They have not kept their agreements and have not honored my artistic, creative, technical or editorial inputs at all. For example, I wanted the songs to have correct writer’s credit and for it to be delineated who wrote which songs. And instead they have gone so far as to completely bury who the songwriters are from the public. There is no credit being given to the songwriters or the publishers on the packaging or the film yet credit is being given to the merchandisers, the trucking company and who dressed up in a monkey suit. They don’t list the songwriters at all, giving the illusion to the public that Supertramp wrote the songs, which is not true at all. And they know how important it has been to me as a songwriter to have my songs delineated. That is the only thing that I had to help me continue on with my career beyond Supertramp.

I know the three of them are going to say they are doing it for the fans, but that is not what is really going on. If they were really thinking about the fans, they would know that fans would want me to have input on the DVD. This isn’t about the fans or about the music. This DVD is about a power play, it’s about money, control, envy and underhanded music business tactics and I want nothing to do with it.

For me I truly was getting involved because so many of you have said you wanted a DVD from one of the concerts when I was with the band. And I hope you can understand that while I always wanted something like this out there, I cannot approve of a product that is created with this kind of manipulation and deceit because I believe that the energy and where you come from when you create something is very important.

The other reason I wanted to work on the DVD was to ensure that all five members could share their experiences from that tour, and I wanted to make sure it would be the best quality product possible. Unfortunately, I also cannot endorse the DVD because of its technical shortcomings, editorial inaccuracies and poor quality.

So I don’t want any fans out there to be fooled, and for anyone who decides to buy the DVD, I wanted you to know this DVD was created out of very questionable legal maneuvering. The band that you see playing on the DVD has not existed for 30 years. Now it’s all about business and the business part of music can be ruthless and backstabbing, just as any other business can be. That is one of the reasons I left LA and wanted to get out of the music business all those years ago. It’s not how I want to live my life and it’s not why I do music.

This is one of the reasons that I’m happier now than I ever have been touring the way I’m touring – not caught up in the music industry and all the ugly parts of the business. No record label owns me, no publisher owns me, no managers own me, no agents own me. I can stay true to myself and tour when I want, how I want. I can play to 3000 or 85,000 or anywhere in between – I’m ok not playing huge arenas anymore, it’s about playing music to help make people happy, it doesn’t matter what size the audience is.

I became a musician when I was 12. It’s what I love to do and it’s what I’m good at. And I will continue for as long as I can travelling around the world doing concerts. For me, one of the most important things as an artist is to play music for the art, for the magic that’s possible with music to help lift people’s spirits, help open their hearts to receive some healing and relief from all the troubles in this world.

I want to keep this Paris DVD issue separate from what I’ve been striving for all these years as an artist, my reasons for touring and playing music. I know many of you wanted to know my thoughts about the Paris DVD, so that is why I’m just sending this to the fan sites and you’re welcome to leave any comments there on the sites.

For something more positive and uplifting, you can visit my Facebook or website guestbook and read some really amazing and touching stories from fans around the world. I so appreciate you all and am fully aware that if it wasn’t for you loving the music or my songs I wouldn’t be out here performing like this. Reading your stories and experiences from the shows is my inspiration.

With love,

Roger

If Roger told the truth he'd acknowledge that the other three did this so they'd get paid - not due to greed but because his and Rick's fractured battles managed to kill the not substantial but just enough $$ they were receiving per contract.

 

[key_wiz]

Funny thing about songwriting credits—back in the day, only the main songwriter usually got credit and other bandmates—who often contributed quite a bit —often got screwed. Numerous are the cases of such band members suing for past credits and royalties.

Nowadays? Anyone who contributes so much as a line of lyric or a chord change suggestion gets a songwriting credit. Some of the credits for songwriting on modern hit singles are longer than the lyric sheets.

I’d be surprised if the other three members of Supertramp contributed nothing to the songwriting over the years.

 

[Orgillian197]

Funny thing about songwriting credits—back in the day, only the main songwriter usually got credit and other bandmates—who often contributed quite a bit —often got screwed. Numerous are the cases of such band members suing for past credits and royalties.

Nowadays? Anyone who contributes so much as a line of lyric or a chord change suggestion gets a songwriting credit. Some of the credits for songwriting on modern hit singles are longer than the lyric sheets.

I’d be surprised if the other three members of Supertramp contributed nothing to the songwriting over the years.

That's true. John Paul Jones got screwed out of songwriter's credit for several Zep tracks and wasn't the only one from that era.

 

[somethingcleveridunno]

That's true. John Paul Jones got screwed out of songwriter's credit for several Zep tracks and wasn't the only one from that era.

Plus the bluesmen who actually wrote the entire song in many cases.