HiRez Poll Spinners, The - SPINNERS [Blu-Ray Audio]

[fredblue]

Thank you for the effort @fredblue

anytime!
tbh i think this is the most i posted in a Poll without owning the disk in question (yet!) come on UPS/USPS, hurry up and deliver the Quadioooo!!

 

[quicksrt]

This is the waveform on the Blu-Ray, with everything amplified by 3dB so it's easier to make comparisons:View attachment 97384

And this is how things look if you amplify the front left channel by an additional 5dB:
View attachment 97385

Yes indeed. Which track is this one?

Well I don't have my disc yet. And the lower dB on the front left is interesting.
But the question is, how does it sound?
@quicksrt seems to think the sound is balanced OK, and we all have different setups, etc so I'll wait until my discs are here before I make any judgements.
Still interesting, though, especially after looking at @fredblue CD-4 waveforms.

Well on Tracks 02, 03, and 06 I did do a 2db boost to FL chan and they sounded spot on after that. Did not need a 5 or 8 db boost. Might be just the way my amp measures DBs.
So I'll of course go through the remaining tracks and see if they are off just as much - or less.

 

[Dynamic Editor]

Yes indeed. Which track is this one?

It's the first song on the album.

 

[mandrix]

Well I did not notice any radical anomalies in sound on listening yesterday. Overall I thought the sound pretty decent.
I'm not a major fan of this album and don't particularly like the way some songs are mixed. Mainly supporting the cause, you know.

So I will give it a respectable 8 rating.

 

[fredblue]

just for a quick bit of context (and a neat double check of my setup, etc.) there was a lovely WEA CD-4 Demonstration promo disc i got from our wonderful Life In Surround man @edisonbaggins that i suddenly remembered had a Spinners track on it!



so, here's the 5 tunes comprising Side 2 at a glance; Carly Simon, Seals & Crofts, Arlo Guthrie, Bette Midler and the Spinners track at the end which runs from approx 15 mins to 19 mins., so you can see the channels are all balanced on every song, especially the Front pair in question.



..and here's the Spinners track itself on that compilation, "Could It Be I'm Falling In Love";



ok well i think that's gonna be it from me and my waveforms here in this Poll now until i receive the new Blu-ray to rate it, which i'm still excited about hearing in spite of the channel volume business

 

[ar surround]

When I boosted the LF channel, I really liked what I heard on this title. But as Dynamic Editor and others have noted, I didn't find a consistent boost across all of the songs. So it will take some effort to come up what should be done track by track.

 

[kfbkfb]

Edit (2023-10-28):
My 8 rating is cancelled, I'll wait for the corrected Quadio (It'll probably still be an 8 though).

Did anyone else notice the (slightly) animated menu display screen?


Kirk Bayne

 

[jefe1]

First listen to this album for me in any form
Superb sound clean bass clear sound
Am listening to the quad
Upon repeat listening and comparing to the stereo I am sure I will notice some of the anomalies.
This is one of two quadios that came with a broken case the lid fell off with a broken hinge when I removed the cello wrapping.
Listening to now We Belong Together seems right rear is much louder than left rear but it could be a mixing decision.

However I am not that much of a purist that I am against correcting errors in the original release if it's an obvious improvement
Still kudos to Rhino and @ForagingRhino for these releases please keep them coming

 

[key_wiz]

I’m not hearing the front left as too quiet, but the lead vocal is panned more the right front on some tracks. listening to “Don’t Let The Green Grass Fool You”, the horns in the front sound balanced to me, but the vocal is mostly on the right

On “I could never” the vocal sounds balanced.

 

[quicksrt]

At the Common Wave HiFi presentation event it was stated from two A&R reps that when mastering these Quadio discs that the touch-ups performed are limited to only slight EQ on some of them, not much at all beyond that. Levels are not messed with. So if front and back speakers are slightly or even somewhat different in levels from each other than that is what we are going to get. However, this seems more like a issue in original mixing or mastering that should have been corrected being that the old released quad tapes and discs do not have this issue. And the correction I see as being quite slight, but as mentioned it effects a phantom center positioning. Maybe it is time to at least compare L to R channels in mastering, and leave front to back alone unless it is a severe problem.

I listened to the disc three times and did not notice it mainly because I was not sitting in the sweet spot and was moving around a bit, probably snapping my fingers and lightly dancing around the room. This is not the kind of music I sit still and listen to like other genres.

I'm interested in what exactly is found on the other Spinners tracks, and if the L&R difference is the same, or as noted early on, it varies?

 

[quicksrt]

Who would have modified the Spinners quad mix (level wise) - I've never read about the JVC Cutting Center modifying the quad master tapes they received for cutting CD-4 masters?


Kirk Bayne

This tape is the Sigma Sound original master they are working from and not a working copy for any particular format.

My opinion is that if the master tape actually plays this way I can deal with that. If it turns out the master is perfect and somewhere in the mastering chain it went off track, a remaster/repress might be the best thing.

 

[jaybird100]

I ordered this one for the tracks that were charted hits, and for the most part, I wasn't disappointed. That said, the front channel imbalance was a bit disturbing. The lead singer seemed to be coming from the right front channel, as opposed to center front. Perhaps a mastering flaw, but over all, I enjoyed what I heard.

 

[key_wiz]

Sadly I can only give this an "7". I really wanted to give it more, as 70's R&B is my jam and this is such a great album, but the mixing issues are what they are.

I was not familiar with the album other than the radio hits (of which there were FIVE), but the rest of the tracks are all solid early 70's R&B fare. An easy "10" for content.

But the mix is off, as already mentioned often here, for whatever reason, and it diminishes the listening experience. Personally, I think it's mostly just the choices of the original quad mixers. I don't find the Front Left to be too quiet, but on at least some of the tracks, the lead vocal is panned about 75% to the Front Right, so it gives that impression. Whether that was the choice of the mixer or a mistake they didn't catch, we will never know.

It does also seem that the Rear Right gets louder as the disc goes on.

Whatever the cause, the result is a less-than-stellar mix and on top of that, it's all a bit muddy sounding. I haven't A/Bd it with the stereo layer (maybe that sounds just as muddy too?) but it's all unfortunate as this album deserves better, IMO.

 

[fredblue]

fwiw i've spent the best part of the day doing further comparisons between the old Q8 tape and CD-4 LP and the new Quadio Blu-ray, looking at waveforms while A-B'ing clips from all 3 sources all afternoon

at this point, i feel if more people could hear the mix as on CD-4 LP and Q8 tape they might enjoy it more because on those old formats it's so well balanced.

unfortunately, despite the sound quality being far superior on the new Blu-ray than either the Q8 tape or CD-4 LP, the BD has some pretty major channel imbalances going on, always in the Front Left but also sometimes in the Rear Right too and for me that adversely affects the whole experience.

take track 6 for example, "One Of A Kind (Love Affair)".

as you can see, the Rear Right is considerably louder on the Blu-ray than on the CD-4 and the Front Left's way too low again (as it is on every track).

(pics depict the channels in order from top to bottom; Front Left, Front Right, Rear Left, Rear Right)

CD-4:



Quadio Blu-ray:

 

[jefe1]

Thanks for all of that work Fredblue it's appreciated.

So what happened to this bluray?

Listening to the quad again afraid to play the stereo tracks and become unhappy with this.
I notice to me the sound particularly the vocals is somewhat muffled compared to say the Mingus guess thats the way it is.
The orchestra reminds me of Sinatra recordings its as if he just finished a session and the Spinners ran in to record with them before they had to leave

 

[MarkN]

fwiw i've spent the best part of the day doing further comparisons between the old Q8 tape and CD-4 LP and the new Quadio Blu-ray, looking at waveforms while A-B'ing clips from all 3 sources all afternoon

at this point, i feel if more people could hear the mix as on CD-4 LP and Q8 tape they might enjoy it more because on those old formats it's so well balanced.

unfortunately, despite the sound quality being far superior on the new Blu-ray than either the Q8 tape or CD-4 LP, the BD has some pretty major channel imbalances going on, always in the Front Left but also sometimes in the Rear Right too and for me that adversely affects the whole experience.

take track 6 for example, "One Of A Kind (Love Affair)".

as you can see, the Rear Right is considerably louder on the Blu-ray than on the CD-4 and the Front Left's way too low again (as it is on every track).

...pics deleted...

For those of us that don't have the CD-4 or the Q8 versions, would it be possible for you to make a list of your recommended channel level adjustments, track by track, to get the Blu-ray closer to the balances of the old versions? Only if it's not too much trouble, and if you were kind of headed in that direction anyways.
Thanks,
Mark

 

[key_wiz]

I don’t recall hearing the lead vocal anywhere other than center front on the quad LP.

I can't speak to that, having never hear the quad LP.

But I can say with almost complete certainty that the music on the tracks sounds balanced while the vocals do not.

Check for yourself on "Don't Let The Green Grass", which has big-band horns in stereo across the front. They sound balanced to me while the vocal does not. See if you hear it the same or not.

 

[fredblue]

Thanks for all of that work Fredblue it's appreciated.

So what happened to this bluray?

Listening to the quad again afraid to play the stereo tracks and become unhappy with this.
I notice to me the sound particularly the vocals is somewhat muffled compared to say the Mingus guess thats the way it is.
The orchestra reminds me of Sinatra recordings its as if he just finished a session and the Spinners ran in to record with them before they had to leave

anytime! this is one of my most cherished WEA Quads so it's important to me to try and make the most of it

 

[fredblue]

Bummer.
This was probably my most anticipated Quadio yet…have not received mine to date…but the comments on the mix are drowning my enthusiasm

fret ye not! i think it's very much salvageable with some level adjustments and perhaps a sprinkling of EQ to suit one's taste? certainly going through the channels with a fine-toothed comb i could tell the sound quality within each one of those channels is leaps and bounds ahead of what's on the old Quad tape and LP

 

[fredblue]

I can't speak to that, having never hear the quad LP.

But I can say with almost complete certainty that the music on the tracks sounds balanced while the vocals do not.

Check for yourself on "Don't Let The Green Grass", which has big-band horns in stereo across the front. They sound balanced to me while the vocal does not. See if you hear it the same or not.

i agree, the Rear pair's fine for the most part (where drums and bass reside in Stereo) with a couple of exceptions, the most egregious of which is track 6 where Rear Right is way too loud.

it's the Fronts that are imbalanced throughout, imaging's skewed way over to the Right on certain tracks.