Atmos Playback In 5.1

[quicksrt]

I’m so happy to be getting great surround releases at an affordable price that aren’t Atmos (sorry all you Atmos fans)

I'm somewhat concerned that if Atmos is given first priority for surround mixed music, that most all 5.1 mixes we soon get will be downmixed from Atmos, and not feature the good strong discreet sound 5.1 normally delivers.

but yes, it appears that the titles, quality and price Rhino has set with these Quadio discs is at about the sweet spot. Hoping that they can keep this price point for the duration of 2024.

 

[sjcorne]

I'm somewhat concerned that if Atmos is given first priority for surround mixed music, that most all 5.1 mixes we soon get will be downmixed from Atmos, and not feature the good strong discreet sound 5.1 normally delivers.

If the Atmos mix has a lot of separation to begin with, playback in 5.1 wouldn’t make it sound less discrete.

 

[quicksrt]

If the Atmos mix has a lot of separation to begin with, playback in 5.1 wouldn’t make it sound less discrete.

Oh I thought that the overhead channels and extra surrounds need to be placed somewhere in the 5.1 spread. And that the decision might be to spread them out "nicely" and could ruin that discreet-ness? No? Who gets to decide where the ceiling speaker channels are placed in the 5.1 version?

 

[sjcorne]

Oh I thought that the overhead channels and extra surrounds need to be placed somewhere in the 5.1 spread. And that the decision might be to spread them out "nicely" and could ruin that discreet-ness? No? Who gets to decide where the ceiling speaker channels are placed in the 5.1 version?

Front heights go to the fronts, though anything centered in the front top pair will go to the center speaker. Top middles, rear heights, rears, and sides all go to the back.

If you’re conscious of this while working in 7.1.4 (or a larger array), it’s possible to craft a mix that satisfies both scenarios. The Atmos mix of Tom Petty’s Wildflowers sounds so good in 5.1 that you could mistake it for a dedicated 5.1 mix.

 

[Owen Smith]

If the Atmos mix has a lot of separation to begin with, playback in 5.1 wouldn’t make it sound less discrete.

Actually Atmos does make 5.1 playback less discrete in my experience unless you a actually have an Atmos decoder, despite only having a 5.1 system. See what I'm about to post in the Dark Side Of The Moon 50th Anniversary blu ray thread.

 

[Owen Smith]

Oh I thought that the overhead channels and extra surrounds need to be placed somewhere in the 5.1 spread. And that the decision might be to spread them out "nicely" and could ruin that discreet-ness? No? Who gets to decide where the ceiling speaker channels are placed in the 5.1 version?

It does indeed spread the heights out and hinder the discrete-ness.

 

[Owen Smith]

Front heights go to the fronts, though anything centered in the front top pair will go to the center speaker. Top middles, rear heights, rears, and sides all go to the back.

Not true. Front heights go to every speaker in 5.1 except the opposing main front, at least on Dark Side Of The Moon.

 

[sjcorne]

Not true. Front heights go to every speaker in 5.1 except the opposing main front, at least on Dark Side Of The Moon.

Sorry, but that's incorrect.

I've got an ADM loaded into the Dolby Renderer (pictured below), which begins with sound only in the front height speakers:

Now if I switch to 5.1 monitoring at that same point, the sound appears exclusively in the front speakers:

 

[Owen Smith]

Here is a description of what happens on my 5.0 system with Dark Side Of The Moon Atmos:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...d-coming-in-october.32514/page-40#post-730042

 

[Owen Smith]

I've got an ADM loaded into the Dolby Renderer (pictured below), which begins with sound only in the front height speakers:

What is an ADM?

The audio worth discussing in detail is the Atmos channel ID test on Dark Side Of The Moon, because that's the only thing where I can tell precisely what is coming out of which speaker. Can you put the four heights for that into the Dolby Renderer please? I can hear the music plays back differently with Atmos selected but it's far too complex for me to isolate what is coming out of which speaker.

 

[quicksrt]

If the Atmos mix has a lot of separation to begin with, playback in 5.1 wouldn’t make it sound less discrete.

Front heights go to the fronts, though anything centered in the front top pair will go to the center speaker. Top middles, rear heights, rears, and sides all go to the back.

If you’re conscious of this while working in 7.1.4 (or a larger array), it’s possible to craft a mix that satisfies both scenarios. The Atmos mix of Tom Petty’s Wildflowers sounds so good in 5.1 that you could mistake it for a dedicated 5.1 mix.

The words "if" and "possible" frighten me to the core of my surround sound existence, and turn me off like kryptonite. I'm an odd one I admit. But I fought off "if's" and "only possibilities" for 50 frickin' years to get where I am now in my listening.

Oh well.

 

[sjcorne]

The words "if" and "possible" frighten me to the core of my surround sound existence, and turn me off like kryptonite. I'm an odd one I admit.

It's disappointing to hear that Atmos "turns you off like kryptonite", as you'll be missing out on a lot of great surround music available now and in the years to come. But we can't all like everything, I suppose. Rest assured that a well-executed mix (by the likes of Steven Wilson, Bruce Soord, Bob Clearmountain, Ryan Ulyate, etc) will translate nicely to a 5.1 or 7.1 setup

 

[quicksrt]

It's disappointing to hear that Atmos "turns you off like kryptonite", as you'll be missing out on a lot of great surround music available now and in the years to come. But we can't all like everything, I suppose. Rest assured that a well-executed mix (by the likes of Steven Wilson, Bruce Soord, Bob Clearmountain, Ryan Ulyate, etc) will translate nicely to a 5.1 or 7.1 setup

I didn't exactly state that.

 

[skherbeck]

I don’t own any physical Atmos discs and I don’t have an Atmos streaming service. My AVR is pretty old and doesn’t say anything about Atmos on it. If I bought an Atmos Bluray and tried to play it on my Oppo, what would I hear in terms of surround? (It’s a 5.1 set-up)

 

[sjcorne]

If I bought an Atmos Bluray and tried to play it on my Oppo, what would I hear in terms of surround?

7.1 Dolby TrueHD

 

[ProgRules]

I don’t own any physical Atmos discs and I don’t have an Atmos streaming service. My AVR is pretty old and doesn’t say anything about Atmos on it. If I bought an Atmos Bluray and tried to play it on my Oppo, what would I hear in terms of surround? (It’s a 5.1 set-up)

I believe all blu's that have an Atmos mix also have a dedicated 5.1 mix. At least that's the case in the ones I've bought.

 

[sjcorne]

I believe all blu's that have an Atmos mix also have a dedicated 5.1 mix. At least that's the case in the ones I've bought.

There are actually a growing number that only have Atmos & stereo:

• Bob Dylan - Time Out Of Mind
• Blur - The Ballad Of Darren
• Brian Eno - FOREVERANDEVERNOMORE
• Snarky Puppy - Empire Central
• INXS - Kick
• R.E.M. - Automatic For The People
• Everything But The Girl - Fuse
• Various Artists - Concert For George
• A Bad Think - X
• John Mellencamp - Scarecrow
• The Rolling Stones - Goats Head Soup
• Yello - Point
• Prince - Diamonds & Pearls
• Booka Shade - Galvany Street, Dear Future Self, Movements

 

[Owen Smith]

I don’t own any physical Atmos discs and I don’t have an Atmos streaming service. My AVR is pretty old and doesn’t say anything about Atmos on it. If I bought an Atmos Bluray and tried to play it on my Oppo, what would I hear in terms of surround? (It’s a 5.1 set-up)

I suspect you'll hear pretty much what I reported since I have a 5.0 setup. The difference in LFE seems likely to be unrelated to height channel issues. And Oppo vs. Arcam AVR doing the Dolby TrueHD playback shouldn't make any difference since these are all standard codecs from Dolby, I doubt Arcam or Oppo get to fiddle with the core of the decoding.

 

[Owen Smith]

I believe all blu's that have an Atmos mix also have a dedicated 5.1 mix. At least that's the case in the ones I've bought.

It's not also, the Atmos mix *is* a Dolby TrueHD 7.1 mix with additional meta data for the objects for height. Wonder Woman only has one main soundtrack ie the Atmos one, I don't get to select 5.1 or Atmos. Similarly while Dark Side Of The Moon does have a separate 5.1 it is the mix from the 5.1 SACD ie a different actual mix.

 

[Owen Smith]

The audio worth discussing in detail is the Atmos channel ID test on Dark Side Of The Moon, because that's the only thing where I can tell precisely what is coming out of which speaker. Can you put the four heights for that into the Dolby Renderer please? I can hear the music plays back differently with Atmos selected but it's far too complex for me to isolate what is coming out of which speaker.

So how about it @sjcorne, can you do the above test? You're the one who goes on about your access to the Dolby Renderer and what it does.