Does anyone still offer a multi-channel SACD player?

[barfle]

I have hundreds of DVD-Rs, they're the main disc type I use.

Yeah, but you’re a geek with geeky gear.

My -Rs play fine on both dedicated players and on all our computers, but not on my mom’s player, nor on players owned by two of my friends. One that I recall didn’t report any problems.

Something I doubt that most people care about when purchasing a disc player is whether or not it plays DVD-Rs. I know it’s not anything I ever checked for - I picked the OPPO because it was affordable best audio performance, and the player in the living room was picked because it physically fit in the space. Maybe if the cheaper player hadn’t played the -Rs, I would have had a clue earlier in the process. I first thought that it was a bad burn being reported.

 

[dobyblue]

So is PLII not typically a component of Atmos-enabled AVRs and if not, what would it typically be used for?

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

So is PLII not typically a component of Atmos-enabled AVRs and if not, what would it typically be used for?

Link: Dolby Pro Logic II

 

[dobyblue]

Link: Dolby Pro Logic II

So which Atmos-enabled AVRs on the market don't do that? I've got a pretty basic AVR in the Marantz SR6012 (Anthem does my amplification for my main channels) and it has movie and music modes for 2.0 > "whatever your surround array is"

If anything, Dolby have gotten much better at this with Atmos and I find the stereo > surround capabilities have significantly improved since my first AVR back in 2005 which was a Pioneer VSX-1014TX with PLIIx

 

[Sal1950]

So is PLII not typically a component of Atmos-enabled AVRs

Neither my Marantz AV7703 Pre/Pro nor my current Denon x4700 contain PLll.

and if not, what would it typically be used for?

I don't understand the question?

As an upsampler I've found the latest Dolby Surround to be the best of the current offerings. I used to use Auro3D but have found DS to be superior.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Dolby Pro Logic II is over 20 years old. It's been superseded by newer methods of surround sound up-scaling/mixing...

 

[dobyblue]

Neither my Marantz AV7703 Pre/Pro nor my current Denon x4700 contain PLll.


I don't understand the question?

As an upsampler I've found the latest Dolby Surround to be the best of the current offerings. I used to use Auro3D but have found DS to be superior.

My point is, if PLII takes a 2.0 source and upmixes it to 5.1 and your AV7703 also can upmix your 2.0 source to 5.1 (if your speaker array is 5.1) but now under the heading of “Dolby Atmos” instead of “Dolby ProLogic II”, what would one be missing? Just the name? Surely the end result is better?

Why would one want PLII specifically over Atmos?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

My old Marantz SR8500 has (PLIIx -7.1) I believe (not even PLII -5.1.) But what I love to use the PLIIx for is when I watch those English shows on PBS. I'm pretty sure they're just broadcasting in stereo at least on my AT&T Uverse. It seems to accentuate the Center channel vocals much better. And maybe I find it a poor upmixer due to the fact I don't have a 7.1 speaker system, only 5.1, not sure though. Even so the PLIIx has 3 different settings to choose from "Movies", "Music", or "Games."

Of course, I would not want PLII anything instead of Atmos (if it's done right!) But with the newer Dolby upmixers, I'm not sure which one I'd need to help out with those TV shows or movies with poor dialog presence? I'll need to investigate once I'm dialed up with a newer AVR

...but what's this got to do with an MC SACD?

 

[ssully]

The Oppo 205 sounds sensational via the 7.1 outputs with L and R configured via the main DAC and the rest via the other DAC.

What could be amiss? Not a bad cable - I tested for that.


If that was the case then the Oppo would have sounded better to me.
But my expectation was that they would be the same.

Oddly enough 'I expected they would sound the same' is not considered an adequate control in serious investigations of sonic difference. Hmmm, why is that?

Not to mention controlling for simple level mismatch. If you are comparing analog output from an Oppo DAC into an AVR, to HDMI output from another player to an AVR's DAC, you've certainly got to check that.

 

[ssully]

My point is, if PLII takes a 2.0 source and upmixes it to 5.1 and your AV7703 also can upmix your 2.0 source to 5.1 (if your speaker array is 5.1) but now under the heading of “Dolby Atmos” instead of “Dolby ProLogic II”, what would one be missing? Just the name? Surely the end result is better?

Why would one want PLII specifically over Atmos?

Dolby Surround (and the upmixer packed in Atmos) isn't the same algorithm as DPL II.

 

[Sal1950]

Dolby Surround (and the upmixer packed in Atmos) isn't the same algorithm as DPL II.

No but is it inferior or superior in sound quality ???
I've no way to compare them but I've found DS the best upsampler for 2ch sources. Besides that we all mostly have DTS-Neural and Auro3D or 2D to choose from. One has got to please you.

 

[Owen Smith]

Dolby Pro Logic II is over 20 years old. It's been superseded by newer methods of surround sound up-scaling/mixing...

PL II is a particular matrix, it is not a general upscaler/mixer (when in Movie mode). When playing back PL II encoded source there is only one correct way to decode it to get the mix as originally intended.

 

[riskylogic]

PL II is a particular matrix, it is not a general upscaler/mixer (when in Movie mode). When playing back PL II encoded source there is only one correct way to decode it to get the mix as originally intended.

I know what you mean. I have a grand total of one Dolby ProLogic CD (Yes Symphonic). I played the hell out of it twenty years ago with a four channel Onkyo receiver. It definitely does not play correctly with my current receivers. I still have the Onkyo and hooked it up a couple of years ago just to listen to that one CD.

 

[ssully]

No but is it inferior or superior in sound quality ???

DSU was tuned more with video watching in mind, than music. (That's why Center Spread wasn't even offered for it originally)

Dolby's own upmixing expert, Roger Dressler, considered it inferior to DPLIIx Music for music, when he first mentioned comparing them years back on AVSForum He's diplomatic about it more recently (start at 35.22) though a bit a PLIIx longing breaks out at 37:20.

My anecdotal (i.e. not blind tested) response to it was also that it was a step down from PLIIx, for music. But I use it anyway, because the DTS alternatives sound quite bad to me. And plain old stereo is just...inadequate.

 

[ssully]

PL II is a particular matrix, it is not a general upscaler/mixer (when in Movie mode). When playing back PL II encoded source there is only one correct way to decode it to get the mix as originally intended.

There weren't/aren't many PLII encoded sources.

But by the time we get to PLIIx and z mainly it was a general upmixer. If it detected a Dolby encoded source it would do its Dolby decode thing, but it was really sold as an upmixer. And Music upmixing was a big focus along with Movies, hence the range of user options in Music mode. DSU unfortunately isn't nearly as user-tweakable, and music seems more a grudging afterthought.

 

[ar surround]

DPLII sucks as a music upmixer. On the other hand, DPLIIx is really good. It was my go to upmixer in instances where Logic7 had problems.

I also preferred PLIIx for 5.1 movies, even those encoded in Dolby Digital EX.

I have found Dolby Surround very messy sounding as a music upmixer especially when the program material has a lot of ambience.

There weren't/aren't many PLII encoded sources.

But by the time we get to PLIIx and y mainly it was a general upmixer. If it detected a Dolby encoded source it would do its Dolby decode thing, but it was really sold as an upmixer. And Music upmixing was a big focus along with Movies, hence the range of user options in Music mode. DSU unfortunately isn't nearly as user-tweakable, and music seems more a grudging afterthought.

 

[perzon57]

DPLII sucks as a music upmixer. On the other hand, DPLIIx is really good. It was my go to upmixer in instances where Logic7 had problems.

I also preferred PLIIx for 5.1 movies, even those encoded in Dolby Digital EX.

I have found Dolby Surround very messy sounding as a music upmixer especially when the program material has a lot of ambience.

I use DSU for up mixing 5.1 music, and I think it does a good job for that use so I get to use all my speakers.

 

[dobyblue]

I’ve typically listened to 99% of my 2.0 music in DIRECT or STEREO (and sometimes ALL CH STEREO) on most of my AVRs over the last 15+ years, most of which were Pioneer or Onkyo - I just found most of my CDs didn’t sound convincing to me up-mixed, I would occasionally give tracks a chance which only reaffirmed my listening habits. When I did find a song that sounded good it was usually Neo:6 Music engaged.

I started giving a few more tracks a shot with my Marantz and Atmos upmixing engaged and really enjoyed it. One of the best tracks I’ve heard is “Pneuma” from Tool’s Fear Inoculum - the break down section with Danny’s intricate timbale patterns sounds so close to a fully discrete surround mix I find it hard to listen to any other way.

 

[dobyblue]

There weren't/aren't many PLII encoded sources.

This is what I thought - I don’t believe I have any. Was it at all common on earliest DVDs? LDs?

 

[mandrix]

99.9% of the time I don't listen to discs except when first purchased, before ripping them. My pc is my central playback station, HDMI out to the AVR.

I still have my first mch disc player, a Samsung HD841 (boxed up) - plays SACD-R with hacked firmware
I had the Samsung HD941, gave it to my stepson - played SACD-R with hacked firmware
I still have my first Oppo (boxed up) the DV-970HD - it's been out to Cali for repairs once - plays SACD-R with hacked firmware
My first blu-ray player, the Oppo BDP-80, sitting in the "rack", natively plays SACD-R. I had to clean the lens once but otherwise trouble free
...and finally my Oppo BDP-103 with Chinese firmware, I can play about any music or video .iso from my pc through the network on it. Or use it to rip SACD.

So, I guess basically a bunch of now old disc players. But truthfully I just hardly play discs at all anymore. Only reason I would buy another is for 4k/8k, but probably not gonna happen.
Foobar for DVDA & SACD .iso playback, VLC & PowerDVD for movies and to bitstream Atmos, Dolby Reference Player, really about all I need. I would pull all my discs off the racks and box them up but don't know where I would put them all.