DualDisc Approved

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Trying to make a DVD a CD, or making a CD a DVD (for the video), is totally stupid. And of course, it failed miserably, pretty much putting an end to major label high resolution disc based audio.

Thankfully, labels like Audio Fidelity and others continue to carry the flag until the flame burns out completely.
i guess behind DualDisc idea was attempt to band together some different segments of the market.
idea itself wasn't bad. execution - terrible and in most part thanks to freaking morons from Sony.


present initiative AF is nice but slightly too late.
firstly - they can't offer widely popular acts, to draw new consumers in mass.
secondly - after all this years DSD still remains exotic format for chosen few.
for one i see only one pros - it's could work as additional point to convince main players in record i
ndustry that there are opportunities in this market to be explored and developed.
 
Before I signed up here I lurked for some time.. I remember reading of Cai Campbell's passing and being literally in shock and moved greatly by this thread:

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?10887-Cai-Campbell-1963-2008

..which was a very strange and surprising sensation to me, as it was the death of someone who I had never spoken with, didn't know in any shape or form and had only read their (largely excellent admittedly) contributions to QQ casually before I signed up here..

..and yet it was still hard to take in.. I can't imagine how I would feel if I heard of anything happening to some of you guys now since I flung myself into QQ-ing it with the rest of you and have come to be weirdly attached to so many characters I've never met and probably never will.
(case in point, our Kap'n was in the UK the other week and v.regrettably I never got to meet him.. I hate that life gets in the way of living sometimes.. :( )
 
IIRC, Kotches went to all hard drive based music a long time ago.
I always like his equipment reviews, detailed, fact-based without hyperbole
He used to write for several sites and contribute on a lot of forums but I'm guessing that after awhile he tired of it like most of the Pros have.
Trying not to editorialize too much, but Internet forums can be very trying places.
With very few exceptions, the insiders that regularly were on original and\or popular forums all left years ago.
I know some still lurk when they have new releases\remasters out to see the reaction, but how many times can you be told "you fucked it up" in a 1,000 ways by a 10,000 amateurs?

on a related (but v.mickey mouse level by comparison) tangent, I used to be v.active in EJ fandom, both on and offline.. and in a nutshell I had to walk away from it all (sadly/reluctantly and I don't feel comfortable going into it even now tbh) but sometimes it just all becomes a bit too much, so I can totally understand why industry Pro's would get sick of BS from armchair enthusiasts such as myself! :eek:

This place is a bit of an exception for me, I can't get enough! They must be some Quad feelgood voodoo going on! (the longest I've been away from here the last 6 years was after I fell down the stairs and nearly killed myself but the cat came back! Meeeeeowww! :kitty: ) anyway, where were we? Oh yeah, DualDisc.. What a POS eh? :D
 
One reason I like QQ so much.
Surround focused and the friendly atmosphere, compared to the other place and we all know which one I'm referring to ;)
I see you there too Fred(Adam?). Me Mongo there.
 
One reason I like QQ so much.
Surround focused and the friendly atmosphere, compared to the other place and we all know which one I'm referring to ;)
I see you there too Fred(Adam?). Me Mongo there.

Oh you're mongo! (y)
(Yes I'm Adam)

Pleased to meet you :)

Its totally different over there (makes sense it's huge forum and covers so many different Topics of convo.. as it is different all over again @sa-cd.. and blu-ray.com..) that's pretty much where I limit my posting these days.. there's almost not enough time for these sites as it is.. this is easily my favourite hangout still (I do wish I could twist sa-cd rammie's arm to join up here too, Ralph's fucking hilarious.. and seriously knowledgeable, I love that bloke!).. and gotta say even on the rare occasions things go batshit crazy round here it's all dealt with pretty handily dandily (compared to you know where, where it just gets deleted altogether when things get hairy..!!) :yikes
 
Right. SACD was born of the CD and was already a perfect DualDisc. Why Sony jumped on DualDisc to the detriment of SACD is nuts.

That decision was made when a guy named Andrew Lack, formerly President of NBC News, came in to cut costs at Sony Music and try new things. Dual Disc was one of those new things.
Speaking of Lack, he's now rejoining NBC News in the wake of the Brian Williams scandal. Stay tuned...
 
That decision was made when a guy named Andrew Lack, formerly President of NBC News, came in to cut costs at Sony Music and try new things. Dual Disc was one of those new things.
Speaking of Lack, he's now rejoining NBC News in the wake of the Brian Williams scandal. Stay tuned...

Lack by name,
Lack by nature...
 
Right. Dolby and Warner didn't realize they needed CD compatibility until DVD Audio was coming to a close with the major labels. So Dual Disc was born in a last gasp effort to modify the DVD-A spec to add a CD layer. Now if CD compatibility had been engineered in from the start, things might have been different.

Hmm, is there a lesson here for the BD Audio format and its lack of CD compatibility?

No. The CD format is moribund. Even the RIAA gets this. Here's a recent report. I think Steven Wilson and the fine folks at KScope did it exactly right when they included a dowload code for the Red Book flac and mp3 along with the Blu-ray for "HAND.CANNOT.ERASE." It was every bit as useful as a CD, and more environmentally sound.

I still buy CDs because downloads are typically lossy MP3, and perversely, physical CDs are often less expensive than downloads (e.g., on Amazon). I typically put each CD in the drive exactly once, to do a bit-perfect rip. But I'm an outlier; the masses have voted for streaming and, to a lesser extent, downloads. The writing is on the wall for physical media. Please don't shoot the messenger.

When I buy a digital recording, I want it to outlast the format on which I buy it. That's why I'm happy to buy Blu-ray, DVD-A, and CD, and much less happy to buy SACD. You can get the bits off an SACD, but it requires specialized equipment (an old PS3 with old firmware), and once you have the bits in hand, they're not the bits that the world has standardized on (LPCM).

Yes, DualDisc was a silly format, but a DualDisc is far more useful to me than an SACD. I can rip the multichannel of one side and the Red Book off the other. I probably can't play it in my car stereo, but I don't care: I haven't put even one disc in my car stereo since buying it. It plays flac (or MP3) off of USB and lets me stream from my phone via Bluetooth/A2DP. Why on earth would I want to insert an actual disc?

I don't think the situation would look any different today if Sony had doubled down on SACD in 2004 instead of opting for DualDisc. Both formats were doomed. Speaking solely for myself--I know that many of you disagree--I think the world would be a better place today if the few holdouts still making SACDs would just stop it. I appreciate the new 5.1 mixes that Audio Fidelity has made available (e.g., Elliot Scheiner's fine mix of New York Voices' "Let it Snow") but I'd appreciate them more if I didn't have to convert them (back) to LPCM.

Perhaps I should change my handle from eclectic to curmudgeon.
 
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If they want to save BluRay Audio, even this late in the disc based delivery game, they should adopt the CD/BDA packaging like the Yes Album, Close to the Edge, etc. Give the people their CD and in the package, "Hey, what's this?". Maybe they'll pop it in their BluRay player and check it out.
That or offer a download like from HFPA or Tom Petty's Damn The Torpedoes. Preferably a lossless download, but I'm even happy with a high-bit lossy codec. I guess I'm just repeating what was said above, but it's sure nice to have the music available to stream when out and about and playing the BDA isn't even an option.
 
How about including a surround download..? :eek:

There are plenty of surround downloads out there these days. Even deals where you get Surround + Stereo for a bundled price (the "COMBI deal" at Native DSD.Com, the Live Blues Concert downloads at Acoustic Sounds).
And there is some big news on the Surround Download front coming...... :)
 
There are plenty of surround downloads out there these days. Even deals where you get Surround + Stereo for a bundled price (the "COMBI deal" at Native DSD.Com, the Live Blues Concert downloads at Acoustic Sounds).
And there is some big news on the Surround Download front coming...... :)

YEAY! Oh Multichannel Maven, you are amazing!!! :) If what you've got up your sleeve is anything like what you've done with Audio Fidelity's Surround SACDs, then I think it's about time I went over to doing all this surround stuff on the computer!
 
YEAY! Oh Multichannel Maven, you are amazing!!! :) If what you've got up your sleeve is anything like what you've done with Audio Fidelity's Surround SACDs, then I think it's about time I went over to doing all this surround stuff on the computer!

Just trying to make sure there is more Multichannel both ways - on Multichannel SACD and on Multichannel download. Stay tuned....
 
Just trying to make sure there is more Multichannel both ways - on Multichannel SACD and on Multichannel download. Stay tuned....

I'm tuned in and turned on! :p :ugham:

If I can play it back perfectly well through the computer without having to invest in anymore equipment (i.e. 24/96 or 24/192 as opposed to DSD which I can't get to stream via HDMI on my Mac?).. I'm in..!! (y)
 
I'm tuned in and turned on! :p :ugham:

If I can play it back perfectly well through the computer without having to invest in anymore equipment (i.e. 24/96 or 24/192 as opposed to DSD which I can't get to stream via HDMI on my Mac?).. I'm in..!! (y)

Multichannel DSD.
 
Oy vey! :yikes :rolleyes: How long have I got to sort out my Mac/DSD situation? I don't want to miss a thing!

There's always the Oppo players (103 and 105) that have FLAC & DSD 64fs Multichannel music file playback. Surprisingly playing music downloads has been trickier on the Mac than on a PC. Surprising given the early embrace by music pros of the Mac.
 
There's always the Oppo players (103 and 105) that have FLAC & DSD 64fs Multichannel music file playback. Surprisingly playing music downloads has been trickier on the Mac than on a PC. Surprising given the early embrace by music pros of the Mac.

not shooting the messenger, I'm v.grateful for all your advice as ever..
but I'm a bit iffy buying a new BDP, there's nothing wrong with my current one!

Nobody's as surprised (and disappointed) as me at how lacking the Mac is with this Hi-Res/Surround stuff.. I may have got on board with the whole using computer route if I'd got a PC instead.. the only thing I can easily get sussed is DTS 5.1 wav's (like DTS CD rips, etc) but I have to play them back thru VLC - not the most user friendly interface, to put it mildly.. if someone could "do an iTunes" on the surround music catalogue (i.e. sell the music and give you a way to collate it and easily play it back from within one interface) they'd get my business!
 
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