Here's an interesting one : Same Album, Different Songs!

[Q-Eight]

Case in Point: The Grass Roots 16 Greatest Hits Quad 8-track

I now have, 3 copies of this tape. Two are identical in both covers and song mixes. The other is slightly different. All three are blue cartridge GRT/ABC tapes.

To start, I'll describe the two identical ones that I have. Both are identified by having WHITE Q(Quad)8 symbols on both the face and spine. Catalog number is C 7023-50107. These tapes have alternate versions to some songs that are quite easily recognized. "Temptation Eyes" has a different guitar solo, and "Things I should have Said" has Warren Entner on lead vocals as opposed to Rob Grill. This take has been much talked about by us Grass Roots fanatics as this is clearly a "Quad Only" release. It's never been seen anywhere else. It's also funny because you can quite clearly hear Warren completely blow a verse, laugh and then pick it up again on the next verse.
This tape is also the one that has the left channels swapped front to rear.

The other tape I just received today. It can be identified by have RED
Q(Quad)8 Symbols and by the catalog number 7023-50107 H. This is the interesting one! The mixes are all the proper stereo mixes with the exception of "Sooner or Later" which is a misprint take with Rob's "Soul shouting" coming in too early. Other than that, they're all the songs we're used to. The difference is in the mixes!! Whoever mixed this album LOVED using echo. There's tons of it. Lead vocals jump from front to back depending on the song, or lead comes out of all 4 with backup vocals in the rear. There are also some additional instruments added that aren't in the stereo versions - like a Moog Synthesizer added into "Baby Hold on" that plays along with the trumpet!

All in all, it's pretty interesting! Just wondering if anybody else noticed this? hehe

 

[zabble]

Case in Point: The Grass Roots 16 Greatest Hits Quad 8-track

I now have, 3 copies of this tape. Two are identical in both covers and song mixes. The other is slightly different. All three are blue cartridge GRT/ABC tapes.

To start, I'll describe the two identical ones that I have. Both are identified by having WHITE Q(Quad)8 symbols on both the face and spine. Catalog number is C 7023-50107. These tapes have alternate versions to some songs that are quite easily recognized. "Temptation Eyes" has a different guitar solo, and "Things I should have Said" has Warren Entner on lead vocals as opposed to Rob Grill. This take has been much talked about by us Grass Roots fanatics as this is clearly a "Quad Only" release. It's never been seen anywhere else. It's also funny because you can quite clearly hear Warren completely blow a verse, laugh and then pick it up again on the next verse.
This tape is also the one that has the left channels swapped front to rear.

The other tape I just received today. It can be identified by have RED
Q(Quad)8 Symbols and by the catalog number 7023-50107 H. This is the interesting one! The mixes are all the proper stereo mixes with the exception of "Sooner or Later" which is a misprint take with Rob's "Soul shouting" coming in too early. Other than that, they're all the songs we're used to. The difference is in the mixes!! Whoever mixed this album LOVED using echo. There's tons of it. Lead vocals jump from front to back depending on the song, or lead comes out of all 4 with backup vocals in the rear. There are also some additional instruments added that aren't in the stereo versions - like a Moog Synthesizer added into "Baby Hold on" that plays along with the trumpet!

All in all, it's pretty interesting! Just wondering if anybody else noticed this? hehe

I've only have the version with the red Q8 symbol, and I must say that I really like the mix! I guess I need to pick the white Q8 version at some point. Two different mixes you say, eh?

 

[Q-Eight]

I've only have the version with the red Q8 symbol, and I must say that I really like the mix! I guess I need to pick the white Q8 version at some point. Two different mixes you say, eh?

Completely different. Alternate versions of the songs "Things I should have Said", "Temptation Eyes" and the rest of the songs are mixed much differently. I'd offer up my spare copy with the White Q8's, but it's really chewed up. It's unplayable now, I just keep it around for show.

 

[proufo]

I find it hard to believe that the record company did and released two mixes of a Quad recording.

Maybe one is a fake, a Variomatrixed stereo recording or sumthin'.

 

[Q-Eight]

I find it hard to believe that the record company did and released two mixes of a Quad recording.

Maybe one is a fake, a Variomatrixed stereo recording or sumthin'.

Both are definitely discrete quad. I've also noticed on my QUAD GRT Sampler, that once again, there is a different mix of "Sooner or Later". Same song we all know and love, just mixed for quad somewhat differently. I doubt they are fake. There are obvious differences in both cartridges. I'll see if I can borrow a digital camera and show pics. I'd also be willing to offer up Reel dubs of either tape if I could get my hands on some good reels to record on.

 

[JonUrban]

I believe it. There are many "Stories" of various differences with GRT sourced Q8's. "Good" Croce's, "Bad" Croce's, same with Steely Dan's and BB Kings.

 

[Q-Eight]

I believe it. There are many "Stories" of various differences with GRT sourced Q8's. "Good" Croce's, "Bad" Croce's, same with Steely Dan's and BB Kings.

That reminded me that I have two copies of Jim Croce's Photo's & Memories Q8. And it too brings up the idea of Good & Bad Q8's from GRT. One Croce is very nicely mixed and a pleasure to listen to, while the other has, for the entire tape: piano in left rear and just ECHO in right. Front is basic stereo.

 

[Q-Eight]

Just a follow up and there are definitely two mixes out there floating around. The C or H in the Catalog number is the deciding factor. I have found another copy with the H at the end of the catalog number. It has the same mix of songs as the cartridge with the Red Q8 symbols, oddly enough, this cartridge has white Q8's. What I've noticed is there is a black DOT before the catalog number. On this newest copy, the printing isn't aligned as nice as the other and you can definitely see a "C" covered by the dot, and a black "H" printed after the catalog number.

So there we have it. I firmly believe ABC/GRT made two different quad mixes of the Grass Roots 16 Greatest Hits. Catalog # C7023-50107 is the less discrete, H7023-50107 is the more discrete. I guess the Red/White Q8 symbols had nothing to do with it. I might also point out that "C7023" has alternate mixes of several songs, most notably "Temptation Eyes" has a different electric organ break, as opposed to the guitar and "Things I should have Said" is quite obviously an early take. I think it's Warren Entner doing lead vocals (it's sure not Rob!) and he blows the words halfway thru, laughs and picks up on the next verse. Kinda fun to hear

 

[dauQula]

Just a follow up and there are definitely two mixes out there floating around. The C or H in the Catalog number is the deciding factor. I have found another copy with the H at the end of the catalog number. It has the same mix of songs as the cartridge with the Red Q8 symbols, oddly enough, this cartridge has white Q8's. What I've noticed is there is a black DOT before the catalog number. On this newest copy, the printing isn't aligned as nice as the other and you can definitely see a "C" covered by the dot, and a black "H" printed after the catalog number.

So there we have it. I firmly believe ABC/GRT made two different quad mixes of the Grass Roots 16 Greatest Hits. Catalog # C7023-50107 is the less discrete, H7023-50107 is the more discrete. I guess the Red/White Q8 symbols had nothing to do with it. I might also point out that "C7023" has alternate mixes of several songs, most notably "Temptation Eyes" has a different electric organ break, as opposed to the guitar and "Things I should have Said" is quite obviously an early take. I think it's Warren Entner doing lead vocals (it's sure not Rob!) and he blows the words halfway thru, laughs and picks up on the next verse. Kinda fun to hear

I picked up the "back-dotted 'H' version" Grassroots Q8 on Ebay recently. Immaculate condition and although not factory sealed, I'm sure it had never been played through. Reason? the tape was jammed. After careful pulling & tugging, the tape finally played free. The mix was rather discrete but the main vocals were on the rear channels only on several songs which was very distracting. I will listen to side 2 this week & give it a few more plays before attempting a 5.1 conversion. I've also spotted this C to H black dot printing on a Jim Croce tape. Asked the seller if it was a quad, he said it wasn't so this alternate version scenario is not limited to quad apparently.

 

[Q-Eight]

I picked up the "back-dotted 'H' version" Grassroots Q8 on Ebay recently. Immaculate condition and although not factory sealed, I'm sure it had never been played through. Reason? the tape was jammed. After careful pulling & tugging, the tape finally played free. The mix was rather discrete but the main vocals were on the rear channels only on several songs which was very distracting. I will listen to side 2 this week & give it a few more plays before attempting a 5.1 conversion. I've also spotted this C to H black dot printing on a Jim Croce tape. Asked the seller if it was a quad, he said it wasn't so this alternate version scenario is not limited to quad apparently.

Yes, The black dotted version puts vocals in the rear on "Where were you when I needed you". I have a theory on that, but I don't know if it's particularly true. The "C" version is a much nicer mix, less discrete of course but has a much richer sound. My only complaint is it is mixed so lead vocals are in LF and RR, backup vocals RF and RR. Which makes me think it was a misprint and had the left channels accidentally swapped.

 

[steelydave]

I don't have these tapes to comment, but reversed fronts/rears seems to be common in the ABC/GRT carts, all the Steely Dan carts I've had have had the fronts and rears swapped on one side. Another cart that seems to suffer from this is Graham Central Station's 'Ain't No Bout A Doubt It' which is odd, being a WB tape...their quality control always seemed really good.

Secondly, about the two different versions, that's very interesting - perhaps the one with the wrong vocals was recalled and replaced with the other one. No one would have noticed, since they didn't have the marvellous Interweb to get together like us and compare the minutae of crappy 8-track tapes!

Dave.