Beaver and Krause Gandharva Japanese QS LP Report

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My apologies to the administrator of this site. I have never really posted before and I tried to post images that show information on the Dreaming Spires transfers of these recordings I have heard. I was unawre that such images were not allowed on theis site.
The Dreaming Spires site shut down a long time ago with his passing.
To the other members, please forgive me if talking about "unofficial" versions of recordings is not something that should be discussed in this forum.
The Gandharva and All Good Men transfers are noted as EV-4 and In A Wild Sanctuary is noted as "A Dreaming-Spires QuadraphonicRelease Decoded From EV-4 Using 'Centaur' "

I've been a huge fan of In A Wild Santuary since its initial release and I stumbled on these "unofficial" versions some years ago.
All I can say is that to my ears they sound great in quad.
l suppose i'm treading on the same fragile glass as you have, which i find very stupid in a forum that is supposed to be dedicated to Quadraphonic Sound..
From what i've gathered from reading the site dedicated to actually decoding the matrix systems is that the versions you may have are many years old compared to the versions i have/enjoy.
A little hint, after you have read postings, he has a cryptic style of writing.
 
S
I did and there is nothing about listening to an LP
Seem to be on an never ending roundabout whilst dealing with you.

What does it matter? you haven't heard the version i have so to solve your issues, surely you actually need to give it a listen and compare it to the technically limited output of your EV decoder.

I have made 2 previous suggstions to that, which you have ignored. Unsure why, but i suspect you believe your UK LP pressing is not encoded.

I am unable to even start to decode my LP, am not technically minded to the point i understand the working of the EV matrix, nor do i have either an original DY or EV hardware decoder.
 
S

Seem to be on an never ending roundabout whilst dealing with you.

What does it matter? you haven't heard the version i have so to solve your issues, surely you actually need to give it a listen and compare it to the technically limited output of your EV decoder.

I have made 2 previous suggstions to that, which you have ignored. Unsure why, but i suspect you believe your UK LP pressing is not encoded.

I am unable to even start to decode my LP, am not technically minded to the point i understand the working of the EV matrix, nor do i have either an original DY or EV hardware decoder.
Given no vinyl version exists in Quad other than the Japanese QS you obviously have access to the Quad master tapes then ......which I don't believe for a minute.
 
- I also heard that EV was working on a pickup cartridge to read the 4 channels off the record. I never heard any more about that.
Wait. What? A special cartridge for EV? Any idea what this was supposed to be? I mean, obviously it's nothing like CD-4 with carriers, etc. But I'm very curious!

It would have been so cool had a system been invented that could detect whether something was actually encoded. Then we wouldn't need to ever wonder whether something was actually encoded. It's the one (and only) thing I like about CD-4. You KNOW if it's working.
 
Given no vinyl version exists in Quad other than the Japanese QS you obviously have access to the Quad master tapes then ......which I don't believe for a minute.
May i state that you may be jumping the gun some what. It has yet to be proven that the EV version does not exist.
you appear not to be willing in proving it either way, so surely the question is well and truly open, until proven otherwise.
 
Wait. What? A special cartridge for EV? Any idea what this was supposed to be? I mean, obviously it's nothing like CD-4 with carriers, etc. But I'm very curious!

It would have been so cool had a system been invented that could detect whether something was actually encoded. Then we wouldn't need to ever wonder whether something was actually encoded. It's the one (and only) thing I like about CD-4. You KNOW if it's working.
I think it is best to ignor him.
 
May i state that you may be jumping the gun some what. It has yet to be proven that the EV version does not exist.
you appear not to be willing in proving it either way, so surely the question is well and truly open, until proven otherwise.
You said you have no vinyl and that when I tell you there is no Quad (EV) on the non Japanese copies I have heard you say that my EV decoder is unable to decode EV (how do you know?). You then say that you have copies of these albums in EV that come from some mysterious source. Forgive me if I struggle to take anything you say seriously.....
 
You said you have no vinyl and that when I tell you there is no Quad (EV) on the non Japanese copies I have heard you say that my EV decoder is unable to decode EV (how do you know?). You then say that you have copies of these albums in EV that come from some mysterious source. Forgive me if I struggle to take anything you say seriously.....
Sorry, your obviously easily confused.

1, I have a copy of the album "Gondharva", US which i am unable to test if it is EV encoded due to the lack of required equipment to produce either a test or decode.

2, I have a 5.1 flac file that contains the 4.0 decoded version of the Album "Gondharva". No mention was made of the decodes source, but it is obviously a very recent decode, check it out yourself, but going by the amount of information there, it's hard to disagree with what is stated.

3, Here's something for all to think on - The Japanese LP of "Gagondharva" was released 2 or 3 years after the albums initial release.

Why would there be a four channel master to use if all that is stated in the various article, you'll need to search for the article where they state they will be using the new EV-4 system, is wrong?

My feeling, just as an interested quadraphonic hobbyist, is that just one, EV-4 encoded, stereo master was produced for LP production. I AM NOT STATING THIS AS FACT, just as a maybe.

So, why are you not open to help prove this and help close a hole in the quadraphonic knowledge.
You have been asked 3 times, never a responce.
 
Wait. What? A special cartridge for EV? Any idea what this was supposed to be? I mean, obviously it's nothing like CD-4 with carriers, etc. But I'm very curious!

It would have been so cool had a system been invented that could detect whether something was actually encoded. Then we wouldn't need to ever wonder whether something was actually encoded. It's the one (and only) thing I like about CD-4. You KNOW if it's working.
I think they were going to make a cartridge that had 4 elements for the 4 stylus angles of the EV matrix. I think they were then going to try to make a separation enhancer similar to a supercardioid mic element to increase separation. But I don't think they could get it to work without distortion.
 
Sorry, your obviously easily confused.

1, I have a copy of the album "Gondharva", US which i am unable to test if it is EV encoded due to the lack of required equipment to produce either a test or decode.

2, I have a 5.1 flac file that contains the 4.0 decoded version of the Album "Gondharva". No mention was made of the decodes source, but it is obviously a very recent decode, check it out yourself, but going by the amount of information there, it's hard to disagree with what is stated.

3, Here's something for all to think on - The Japanese LP of "Gagondharva" was released 2 or 3 years after the albums initial release.

Why would there be a four channel master to use if all that is stated in the various article, you'll need to search for the article where they state they will be using the new EV-4 system, is wrong?

My feeling, just as an interested quadraphonic hobbyist, is that just one, EV-4 encoded, stereo master was produced for LP production. I AM NOT STATING THIS AS FACT, just as a maybe.

So, why are you not open to help prove this and help close a hole in the quadraphonic knowledge.
You have been asked 3 times, never a responce.
I think I can answer your questions. I am pretty confident that the US release was not released in EV encoded Quad. The UK one is definitely not. The album was however originally recorded in discrete Quad with a four track master. The four track master tape could be played back without encoding for vinyl and it was played at an exhibition in Quad as I read a piece by someone who heard it at the time. The recording was also written about in trade press but despite this the record was not released in Quad on vinyl or tape when first issued. Later the Japanese finally issued the Quad on vinyl in QS encoding presumably because someone at Warners in Japan really wanted to see it finally released and Quad seems to have had a bigger audience in Japan. The version you have must be a decode of the Japanese release unless somehow a copy of the uncoded discrete quad master has leaked out.
 
So I'd be correct in assuming the Warner Archives and the Collectors' Choice CD issues of Gandharva have no encoding?
 
I think I can answer your questions. I am pretty confident that the US release was not released in EV encoded Quad. The UK one is definitely not. The album was however originally recorded in discrete Quad with a four track master. The four track master tape could be played back without encoding for vinyl and it was played at an exhibition in Quad as I read a piece by someone who heard it at the time. The recording was also written about in trade press but despite this the record was not released in Quad on vinyl or tape when first issued. Later the Japanese finally issued the Quad on vinyl in QS encoding presumably because someone at Warners in Japan really wanted to see it finally released and Quad seems to have had a bigger audience in Japan. The version you have must be a decode of the Japanese release unless somehow a copy of the uncoded discrete quad master has leaked out.
WRONG.
 
Interesting thread, but a lot of rambling on and on!

I would guess that Fizzy is right and the Japanese LP is RM encoded (for all intents and purposes close enough to QS).

As for some copies being EV-4 that might also be possible. I have never heard this release in any form but you guys have peaked my interest. Remember that EV-4 is very close to RM. Decoding via a real EV-4 decoder will reveal nothing, that decoder/system was designed mainly to get decent surround from stereo, it's decode coefficients don't even match the encode coefficients. It would be hard to tell an EV encode from a QS or RM one using a Stereo-4 decoder.

What is this about the passing of Dreaming Spires? I take it you mean OD's blog not Richard himself! OD is very much alive and has "released" many more titles via his new blog.

The Matrix
 
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