Dual Disc Sony - The best and worst of DualDisc

[Kris Deering]

I went to the local CD store today (Wherehouse Music) and noticed that Sony had a large DualDisc kiosk filled with their latest releases. I have to give Sony credit, they actually have a kiosk that would call attention to Dualdisc and give the customer some kind of clue as to what it is. I haven't seen this from any of the other camps despite Warner and Universal already having titles out there.

They also seem to have thought out their releases a lot better and offer a nice spread of selections for different customers. I saw Los Lonely Boys, Destiny's Child, AC/DC, Switchfoot and a few others. There was R&B, rock, pop, christian, alternative, jazz, just about a little of everything!! I wish we would see more support like this from the other camps.

The downside of course is the inconsistency in features on the DVD side. Some have 5.1 mixes, some don't. And the biggest drawback, no DVD-A. A shame really. I would have bought the majority of Sony's releases this week if they had DVD-A 5.1 mixes on them. I would have easily have thrown down for AC/DC, Velvet Revolver, Destiny's Child, Switchfoot, Avril Levigne, and a few others. I have a few of Sony's releases already since I am press. But the 5.1 mixes have been very inconsistent. The Destiny's Child mix is pretty good as is the Bowie mix. Los Lonely Boys may as well be stereo and the Switchfoot disc sounds better in 2 channel as well.

Hope the best is still yet to come.

 

[Savageone79]

On top of that the couple of Dual Disc Surround mixes from sony that I have heard have been dissapointing. I could MAYBE stand the Dolby digital only part if it were at least a good surround mix!

 

[Kazaam]

To add to your experience at one store, here's my experience today...

Circuit City had little cardboard DualDisc logo cutouts scattered thoughout the CD section to help locate DualDiscs. Too bad Circuit City must've decided to not carry any non-Sony DualDiscs---at least at this particular store.

Best Buy had DualDiscs from probably all the major manufacturers---except for Silverline. However, Best Buy didn't have any sort of advertising display.

 

[Kazaam]

On top of that the couple of Dual Disc Surround mixes from sony that I have heard have been dissapointing. I could MAYBE stand the Dolby digital only part if it were at least a good surround mix!

Yeah, it's bad enough it's Dolby Digital; but then when the surround mixes are bad. That's almost worse than DualDiscs that lack ANY sort of surround sound. Almost.

I picked up the DualDisc from Switchfoot even though it was only Dolby Digital. I am hoping for a decent surround mix since I haven't listened to it yet, but what I see here worries me.

I wish Sony would give us DTS sound instead of Dolby Digital.

 

[timbre4]

Did anyone else notice USA Today newspaper (weekend edition) had a FULL page ad for the new Sony DualDisc releases? The ad must've co-opted with Borders as their logo is featured prominently near the bottom.

I give them some credit for at least getting some promotion going; let's kick this up a notct now! Oh, and get those 5.1 mixes done for all future releases....

 

[MIDIQ]

I am getting pretty tired of buying these Dualdisc's and having the surround mixes be a load of crap!!! I have bought 4 so far
1- The Donnas - Great music, but the surronnd stinks. I play it in stereo.
2- Blondie - Fair music, and only a fair surround mix.
3- The Hiss, Panic movement - Music stinks IMO, and again the surround mix might as well be stereo. I can't believe i bought this one, I forgot to look and see who it was made by. Guess who, SILVERLINE !!!! I pretty much diserve this. Another "stunning surround" disc for Ebay.
4 - Los lonely boys - GREAT music. But the surround might as well be stereo, and in a lot of the songs it seems as if everything is comming from the center!!! The only thing ever comming from the rears at any time is a little echo!!!!!
I am not happy with the surround i have bought on Dualdisc so far at all. This is the only reason i would buy a Dualdisc, for the surround. These mixes are NOT suround!!!! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!

 

[solaris]

Sony should have invented thier own type of dual disc, Oh they did they just don't support it. Well just for the record
I WILL ONLY BUY DUAL DISCS WITH DVD-AUDIO
no point in getting low rez, high rez

 

[dprokopy]

Now why the hell couldn't Sony have poured (or continued to have poured) this much promotion into their SACD titles?? Infuriating.

 

[JonUrban]

Now why the hell couldn't Sony have poured (or continued to have poured) this much promotion into their SACD titles?? Infuriating.

It boggles the mind.....................

 

[Kazaam]

I finally listened to the surround mix on the Switchfoot DualDisc. I actually kinda like Elliot Mazer's mix. It's more than just stereo. Sure, it's not the best. But I think it's much better than the junky mixes thrown onto The Donnas and Simple Plan DualDiscs. IMO, the Switchfoot surround mix is really suffering from being in Dolby Digital.

FWIW... I can't say Sony is doing THAT much more than they did for SACD as far as promotion goes. So far I'm sure SACD promotion in total has been WAY more than DualDisc. However, I am kinda jealous that Sony never had those little paper cutouts to stick inside the CD bins to help advertise SACDs like they do the DualDiscs. Then again I can understand that it would've been pointless since so many people just don't have SACD playback capabilities. (Not that it would've hurt. Education about SACD can certainly lead to growth in the market.) Hey, Sony! Here's a thought: Start adding DVD-Audio tracks to your DualDiscs!!!!

 

[JonUrban]

Hey, Sony! Here's a thought: Start adding DVD-Audio tracks to your DualDiscs!!!!

THAT would be remarkable (and consumer friendly!), But forget it. Even though they relented and made VHS players back during the Beta/VHS deal, the demand for this stuff is so low, they can skip doing this and the only ones who would notice would be us. It would be too much of a PR hit if they "switched" to DVD-A.

What probably tells the end of the story for their SACD future is more of a "shocker", in that NONE of these 5.1 Dolby Digital mixes appeared or seems scheduled to appear as an SACD. That is a sad tale, and a probable tough pill to swallow for the SACD camp. I mean, really, if these were released as Hybrid SACDs, with a CD layer and a SACD layer, wouldn't that be a "dual disc" too?

 

[robertawillisjr]

Sony has no one to blame but themselves. What were they thinking when they released only single layer SACD's for a few years? DUH!

 

[timbre4]

Sony wanted to get to market as quickly as possible with SACD because DVD-Audio was doing the same. That's why there so many rush job single layer 2.0 only SACD relases thrown onto the market.

Not a great idea due to these stubborn facts:
1) Wouldn't play on anything but SACD players
2) Too expensive to make a value proposition
3) Stereo only so not the big deal they could have been (to us at least)

But you can't sell any players without software, so it was a necessary evil for Sony. With some proper planning and promotion it all could have turned out differently. Then again Sony is stubborn about format differences with others in the industry...

 

[Savageone79]

Here is my take on the switchfoot mix. Dolby Digital definately sucks for this type of music.. full bitrate DTS would have been a much better choice. I agree at times the mix is good but overall it is very uneven. Some tracks have a decent mix while others are just poor. One song starts out with beeping going around you from one speaker to the next but it doesn't do it smoothly, it just shuts off in one speaker and turns on in another. In another song the mix bounces from front to back speakers, but in a very jerky manner.. these type of effects in a mix just distract more than anything. I don't mind these types of effects in surround mixes if done well but they just aren't pulled off here.

 

[neil wilkes]

Savageone79.
The encoder used, Dolby Digital or DTS, has no bearing on the mix whatsoever. DTS encoding will not stop a bad mix being a bad mix.
And most people I know cannot tell the difference between a DTS encoded track or a Dolby Digital one.
Can You?

 

[Bob Romano]

Savageone79.
The encoder used, Dolby Digital or DTS, has no bearing on the mix whatsoever. DTS encoding will not stop a bad mix being a bad mix.
And most people I know cannot tell the difference between a DTS encoded track or a Dolby Digital one.
Can You?

I sure can't... except when one actually plays back louder than the other.

 

[Savageone79]

I didn't mean it would improve the mix only that it would improvie the audio quailty. Especially if they used full bitrate DTS it would be a marked improvement in sound quality of Dolby Digital and while there are a few people who would argue you with that most would agree.

 

[neil wilkes]

Again, I am sorry to say that most people cannot tell the difference between a DTS track and a correctly encoded Dolby Digital one.
The volume issue is usually caused by an incorrect Dialnorm setting, and can easily be set up correctly.

 

[Savageone79]

Most people I know and talk to can tell a difference.

 

[ClarkNovak]

I was happy when I found the Avril Lavigne Dualdisc... and immediately extremely frustrated to see that it was only "enhanced stereo" on the DVD side. What the hell does that mean, anyway? "Enhanced Stereo." That's kind of like "connoisseur's popcorn." Means nothing. Grrr.

Not the way to roll out a format, IMHO.

I did get the Los Lonely Boys Dualdisc... dunno, but I think the surround mixes sound pretty good. I dumped them to WAV and analyzed them in Audition, and they look fairly discrete to me...

Clark